Since the gun topic and Ukraine have been civilish how about

I'm a big fan of learning to deal with life without relying on mind altering substances.  

Life is hard, and learning to deal with it is quite important.

The violence would have nothing to do with weed.  Meth, coke, whiskey, sure.  Weed just puts you to sleep.

I think it could in some.  I think there are a lot of myths about marijuana not being harmful or addicting. Most heavy users I know will tell you its not addicting, but do everything they can to be able to smoke every day, and get upset if they can't. I do know a few people that don't smoke it because it makes them paranoid, not calm.

Anything is possible. Drug interactions are certainly a thing, and individuals react very differently to them.

Given that a new drug is becoming legal and more people are potentially mixing it with other drugs, I don't think that it's outrageous to say that there will be documented drug interactions which were previously unknown. It's no different from mixing pain killers and alcohol. Not mixing those was apparently a HUGE surprise to some people.

I am not going to say they couldn't be related but one there are plenty of countries where it is legal I don't think they have seen an increase in violence due to it, two every pot smoker I have know is pretty much the opposite of violent and three it seems like many people used it prior to legalization anyway.

IMO there are a lot of things that seem to be more likely linked to the increase in violence then legalization of weed including understaffed police departments, effects from the past few years of pandemic life, social media, etc.

One could argue there is the potential for a reduction in violence due to legalization because partial removing the effects of drug trafficking and dealers as well as possibly keeping people from having a criminal record that can prevent them from getting a job.

Also to add: Since marijuana is still verboten on the Federal level, I'm not even sure that Parma Companies can study prescription drug interactions with it legally.

Steve_Jones said:

I think there are a lot of myths about marijuana not being harmful or addicting. Most heavy users I know will tell you its not addicting, but do everything they can to be able to smoke every day, and get upset if they can't.

Where do potheads and weed experts get all their information?

Their dealers.

It's tongue in cheek, but I think a very true part of a lot of these myths.

That said, I'd be interested to know if legalizing actually changes the number of users significantly. We may not have had enough time yet to really see.

I have heard the newer versions of weed (not the stuff from the 60's anymore) can have noticeable psychological damage if used to much, and there are some who use a LOT (made a bit easier with vaping).  I think it is also pretty well know (I have seen it myself) that heavy weed uses can develop violent tempers.  I am not talking about the "paranoid when high" aspect, this is more of a long term general change when not high.

Another aspect here, that I have heard someone talk about is the heavy prescription of behavioral drugs (anti-depressants etc.) in young males (the vast majority of shooters in these random attack situations).  The drugs are not the direct issue, it's when they come off the drugs. That is when they make the trip to the gun store.  (I don't know if there is any data or reality behind this though).

Steve_Jones said:

I think there are a lot of myths about marijuana not being harmful or addicting. Most heavy users I know will tell you its not addicting, but do everything they can to be able to smoke every day, and get upset if they can't.

As a friend of mine once said, "No matter what the source, it's possible to get addicted to fun."

I am strongly pro-legalization because libertarian.

From my long-gone days as a somewhat occasional pot smoker, I can't see weed-induced paranoia blossoming into the type that leads to violence and preemptive attacks.  It's just such a low-energy intoxicant that I don't believe it would provoke that kind of response.  I've gotten paranoid while high, and I can understand what prompted the original question, but as noted above by Streetwiseguy, the depressant factor is going to overpower any real paranoiac response.

The whole "puts you to sleep" thing is exactly why I quit smoking pretty much as soon as I could legally drink alcohol.  DD#1 brought us some edibles back from Colorado about 3 years ago and they're still sitting in our cupboard.

I would say very doubtful. The mental health issues have been widespread far longer than the legalization and decriminalization of the drug. Additionally, many that do live where it is legal, like myself, have issues with depression and anxiety that may be helped by marijuana*... Yet don't use, because of the risk of testing positive on a drug test - whether that is for a new employment drug screen, random screen at work, or getting into an accident and having it show up on a background check (for my side gig, I go through 2-3 background checks a year). 

I also think, from personal anecdotes, that people that use are more likely to be in treatment for their depression/anxiety/mental health challenges than people who do not use. The three persons that I am personally most worried about from a violence issue are not users, though 2 of them are alcoholics. 

*Note that I said may be. I've used it to great success in the past; I recognize that it is a crutch. It can help you in a situation, but it isn't going to help you long term. It also can be addictive. It is not the miracle that every pothead makes it out to be. I really wish it wasn't federally illegal. It doesn't make sense that it is. 

Duke said:

 

....From my long-gone days as a somewhat occasional pot smoker, I can't see weed-induced paranoia blossoming into the type that leads to violence and preemptive attacks.  It's just such a low-energy intoxicant that I don't believe it would provoke that kind of response.  I've gotten paranoid while high, and I can understand what prompted the original question, but as noted above by Streetwiseguy, the depressant factor is going to overpower any real paranoiac response.....

I could say the same thing about alcohol, but I have basically zero alcoholic tendency.  Different people are affected by these things different ways.  As noted, the issue is not when they are high, it's the whatever changes it does to affect them in general, even when not high.

I have heard, you could tell when someone had great potential to be a drug addict:  There first use of pot has an almost euphoric effect... then they are on the "train".   And many other people will just dismiss pot after first use, or have little interest.

In reply to Duke :

Yeah the addiction can be chemical or habitual or both. Things like gambling are obviously not chemical, but still very real.

I don't know if pot is chemical or not, but it can be habitual just like anything else.

Not a doctor but I keep reading about alleged studies (I haven't sourced them myself) that point to constant young exposure maybe being linked to schizoprenia later in life. So there's that, I leave it to more knowledgeable types to delve into those specifics. 

I think a more direct cause of mental health issues lies more with the very work-centric modern society and the stresses that go with everyone working all the time. I think we're running ourselves ragged to the immortal tune of "this lazy younger generation" and the finger pointing at substance coping is counter-productive. That's my thinking and, as I type it out, I realize that it could be read as being confrontational. I don't intend it that way, we're all in this together after all, but I'm also not really addressing your question. To try and end more on-topic I will say that I think cannabis use is a symptom of/coping mechanism for a stressful world where symptom or coping may differ based on your world view.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

I don't think marijuana is directly chemically addicting, and is only mildly psychologically addicting, but for some folks it is definitely strongly habitual.

Eh. I don't really care what other folks do as long as they are not selling to minors. It's like drinking or any number of other lifestyle choices. I have all kinds of good friends who don't live the way I do. 

Im with Duke in the libertarian argument. 

I will say, coming from two families full of lifelong drug abusers, I've never seen anyone get to the point of wrecking lives without starting on weed first. Not to say that's the cause, but maybe a sign or symptom of someone who has an illness or at least a propensity for addictive behavior or self destructive patterns. 

I would have to say it's no worse than alcohol.

I'm with Duke on the legalization aspect. 

There is going to be a short-term party where everyone is stoned. Then it will be over and the problem users will identify themselves and be dealt with the same way drunks are. 

I asked two psychiatrists - one who works in a chemical abuse rehab facility - about it. They both basically said the same thing, we don't know enough and the stuff that is in dispensaries now is an entirely different animal than the ditch weed that I had in college. Neither were willing to write a script for it. That said, I saw the non-rehab psych walking into the dispensary that is next to the O'advancezoneboys when I was returning my old caliper for the core charge, so her professional and personal opinions of them seem to be different. 

The reports that I've heard about the school shooters and similar shootings said that the perps were on SSRIs. You can pick and choose your data and statistics to reach whatever conclusion you desire, but a quick search of "ssri and mass shooters" brings up plenty of articles.

In Oklahoma medical marijuana is legal. 'Medical' seems to be widely abused and there are 'dispensaries' on every corner and greenhouses across the landscape. I don't like it. ***But I have known people that were on SSRIs who changed over to pot after the legalization and I think they are better off on pot and much less likely to have an incident of violence.

Toyman! said:

There is going to be a short-term party where everyone is stoned. Then it will be over and the problem users will identify themselves and be dealt with the same way drunks are. 

In Illinois when it was legalized recreationally, there were lines out the door at every dispensary (already set up because medical had been legal for a while). It was like that for a few months, I tried to go out of curiosity but never wanted to wait in line so always passed. 3 months later, one of 3 times I've went since then, you were in and out. Interestingly, I've gone only one time for myself. Every other time was for people from out of state. 

Again I am pro legalization,  pro responsible use. 

My wife and I are having the same conversation in parallel, and she tossed this at me as I read Dukes post.

National Institute of Propoganda and Hollow Answers?

Even countries with universal health care struggle with incorporating mental health. This is a big world wide problem. 
 

https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l4516

The Who is trying but I don't think it's effective 

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/310981/WHO-MSD-19.1-eng.pdf

QuasiMofo (John Brown) said:

 

National Institute of Propoganda and Hollow Answers?

 

Not sure how I'd see that as propoganda. Hollow answers, for sure, because they just do not have good data. It really does not exist. And until it comes off Schedule 1 - supposedly more dangerous than oxy, morphine, meth, benzos... We're not likely to get any good studies. At least not from anywhere that accepts federal funding.

AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) said:

The reports that I've heard about the school shooters and similar shootings said that the perps were on SSRIs. You can pick and choose your data and statistics to reach whatever conclusion you desire, but a quick search of "ssri and mass shooters" brings up plenty of articles.

It all traces back to a Scientology-linked disinformation campaign though:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/aug/16/whats-behind-dubious-claim-psychiatric-drugs-fuel-/

In reply to mtn :

Oh it was tongue in cheek. I view anything from the government as propoganda 

From the NIH article linked above:

 In the early 1990s, the average THC content in confiscated marijuana samples was less than 4%. In 2018, it was more than 15%.  Marijuana concentrates can have much higher levels of THC

I have heard some of the concentrates can go up to 90% THC!

Almost anything can be harmful in excess... and boy there is certainly potential here.  Again, it's going to be a minority of people who will ever go to those extremes.