since we are talkin guns, learn me

curtis73 wrote:

coolusername wrote: you better get it before they outlaw them,

don't worry.... that's a long way away.

i blew it off but she keeps bringing it up!!! you better get the rifle while you still can..........i am not a gun guy but she seems to think we might need it or we should get it while we still can........should i buy a rifle and a handgun......what would i do with it?

If you want them and your wife insists, then sure. Guns are a lot like cars. You either buy them to use and you take the depreciation hit, or you buy a unicorn and hope that it increases in value. Buying a gun to just have a gun should be a disposable investment.

will i need it? ok......what kind should i get, it you had 2 grand what 2 would you buy, i have always heard the Glock 9mm??????? i live in a gated neighborhood with security will i have to defend my house or family???

You won't need it. The chances that you will need it are one in a few million. If you live in a gated community, your chances of needing a gun are reduced by a few trillion. Have you had to defend your house or family in the past? I am a HUGE gun-rights advocate, but please look at statistics. If your house is invaded and you don't pull a gun, your chances of survival are nearly 100%. If your house is invaded and you DO pull a gun, your chances of survival are significantly reduced. IMHO, if you are a highly-gun-educated individual, you can make the responsible choice about the guns in your house. I own over 100 guns, including some handguns. They are all insured. If someone wants to steal them, I would never presume to endanger the life of me (or the invader) by using one of those guns to prevent theft. Now.... if an invader were trying to rape my wife.... that's a different story. BUT... I could just as easily defend her with a baseball bat, a kitchen knife, an office chair, or a partially full can of beer. .... but the full can of beer is something I might not sacrifice.

My house is secluded. You have to be headed there for a reason, it's not someplace you just walk by at random. There are 3 dogs, one being an 80lb long haired German Shephard. You ever heard an 80lb shephard barking at someone they don't know? It's not some little yipper bark. It's deep, loud and very intimidating.

So.... someone still, with all that, breaks into my house, they're not there just to steal some easy property. They're there there to do something worse. I'm not going to sit and let that happen. Sorry.

As for firearms choices, I'll take my 1911 Springer loaded and sidefolder AK in 7.62.

Guns, except right now, are usually a great investment. I've YET to not double my money on selling one after having my fun with it.

There have been some really good recommendations in the thread already. See what is available in your area and what is comfortable for you. The AK is an excellent all around tool that has plenty of power for most situations and durable enough to withstand some of the worst conditions. The AR is more of a precision tool, new models are more durable and reliable compared to the original. It is more accurate than the AK however the 5.56/.223 round is smaller and carries less power but is more accurate over longer ranges. A huge benefit of the AR is you can get a .22lr conversion kit for your standard rifle for practice and plinking.

For the handgun it is very much a personal taste kind of thing. What works for one person may not for another. I personally like SIG's and you can get the SIG Pro 2022 for under $400 and it will generally out shoot any Glock I have fired stock for stock. I would stick with either a 9mm or a .45 ACP, they are about the most common hand gun rounds available and you can normally find a box or two even during the hardest of times. Many of the popular handguns also have .22 conversion kits for practice as well.

For things to do with them there are quite a few shooting competitions you can start getting into that utilize modern "tactical" weapons. There is one in particular I want to try but can't remember off the top of my head at the moment. It focuses on shooting situations derived from homeland defense. It uses modern handguns, AKs/ ARs/M1As/other battle rifles, and a shotgun.

I would try and dig up an AK variant (Saigas are an excellent choice, a SIG Pro 2022, and Mossberg 500/590. If you hunted around and found good prices you should be able to get it all for under $1200 and spend the rest on ammo and any other things you would want like holsters, safety gear, cleaning kits, etc.

With that budget I vote ordering a DSA FAL(as the batE36 M3 craziness hasn't effected the manufacturor) about 10 20rd standard mags for it, then spend the rest of the 2 grand on a rock island 1911.....the FAL is much more gun for the money than the others right now. Oddly enough, DSA is out of Illinois.....lol

N Sperlo wrote: The cat is much more dangerous. Just doesn't have the reach.

I see you have the stealth model...attack cat!

In reply to Secretariata:

Its only stealth at night........I hear that cat is wanted for television robberies.

If you think you need an AR/AK, either is fine. The new Sig Sauer "AK" is probably the pinnacle of that design. A buddy just bought one before this craziness hit for about $800. Good luck finding one for that now. A plain-Jane AR in 223 Rem without all the tactical crap on it would be a good starting point. If you're prepared to wait then you can probably get a lower and an upper separately for not much more money than a month ago, but be prepared to be patient. Seriously, a short action Savage 10 or Remington 700 in 308 Win would probably be more useful all-around. Given that Remington's owners are getting cold feet now might be the time to get one before somebody starts telling you they're "collectible". You could buy a hell of a bolt gun for $2K. My $.02 is to go the other way. Assuming you have NO firearms right now, you'll ultimately need a 22 long rifle (10/22 Ruger) and a shotgun (12 gauge Rem 870) and a Major Caliber handgun (either 4" 357 revolver or a 1911 in 45 ACP[some would recommend a Glock]) and you can get all three for less than a grand used/new if you're careful. That leaves you a pile for either an AR/AK or a bolt action 308 or a lever action 30-30. Once you've got those four (22, 12 gauge, pistol/revolver and rifle) you're pretty well good to go. Oh, crap, I almost forgot--a Garand from CMP would be something to think about, too. Not as cheap to shoot but really a great rifle. I'll shut up now.

In reply to yamaha:

You are correct only stealth at night, but isn't that the most likely time to trip intruders?

In reply to stroker: I can agree with the handguns and garand......but the rest is questionable. 870, 308 bolt action, and 30-30 are the weapons of yuppies in my area. Id recommend a mossy before the 870 anyways.

yamaha wrote: In reply to stroker: I can agree with the handguns and garand......but the rest is questionable. 870, 308 bolt action, and 30-30 are the weapons of yuppies in my area. Id recommend a mossy before the 870 anyways.

My experience with shotguns is limited, but doesn't the Mossberg 500 series have some sort of weird button you have to press to rack the thing? And that button is in the most un-ergonomic location possible? (left side of trigger guard, if I remember right)

In reply to Will:

That is only to unlock the action to cycle it when there is a round in the chamber. If there is no round in the chamber and the action is not cocked you do not have to press that button. Basically it is only used to clear a live round from the chamber. It is also extremely easy to depress when holding the shotgun normally. It is only an issue depressing it if you move to a stock like my Specops.

Will wrote: My experience with shotguns is limited, but doesn't the Mossberg 500 series have some sort of weird button you have to press to rack the thing? And that button is in the most un-ergonomic location possible? (left side of trigger guard, if I remember right)

You only use it to rack out a live round.

Beer Baron wrote:

curtis73 wrote: I am a HUGE gun-rights advocate, but please look at statistics. If your house is invaded and you don't pull a gun, your chances of survival are nearly 100%. If your house is invaded and you DO pull a gun, your chances of survival are significantly reduced.

I like you.

Let's hug it out

Will wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to stroker: I can agree with the handguns and garand......but the rest is questionable. 870, 308 bolt action, and 30-30 are the weapons of yuppies in my area. Id recommend a mossy before the 870 anyways.

My experience with shotguns is limited, but doesn't the Mossberg 500 series have some sort of weird button you have to press to rack the thing? And that button is in the most un-ergonomic location possible? (left side of trigger guard, if I remember right)

Yes. I love my(dad's, actually) 500, but the pump release and safety location can be less than ideal. With a standard stock both work just fine. Once you get into thumb hole and pistol grip stocks things get bad.

An alternative is the Maverick 88(by Mossberg). It has a more conventional crossbar safety, although I'm uncertain about the pump release. And IIRC, aftermarket 500 stocks should fit.

Edit-just the different safety, same pump release

One other aspect of the 500/88 the tube length is fixed and will NOT take an extender.

I have a mossberg 500A. Yes, there's an action lock lever. No, it is not in a weird position if you use a normal stock....your middle finger is right there as it passes behind the trigger guard. (No idea if this is true for the pistol grip; i.e. I have no idea where your fingers are. )

More importantly, the action lock lever does NOT need to be pushed to rack the gun. If you fire, it moves into the trigger assembly (like it was being pushed) so the gun can be racked/reloaded. The only time that stupid little button needs to be pushed is if you are unloading a loaded gun.

Here's a video to explain if what I said does not make sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuqNtxPrJ-I

[EDIT: I see that everybody responded to you before me. The only thing I should add is that the safety location/style on the mossberg makes perfect sense: it is easy to flip on/off with your right thumb, easy to see when using the gun, and is the same as the safety on my Grandpa's Stevens 311; i.e. there have been guns using that design for a loooong time. ]

In reply to JoeyM:

The safety is fine with a conventional stock. It is also the only reason I won't swap in a thumbhole.

Different strokes and such.

makes perfect sense. Your original point stands; you said, love my(dad's, actually) 500," and I'd have to agree. It's a lot of gun for the money.

I run a 590 for home defense and a 535 for turkey hunting.

Secretariata wrote: In reply to yamaha: You are correct only stealth at night, but isn't that the most likely time to trip intruders?

Yes. During light hours, he spends his time with dad and his guns.

rebelgtp wrote: In reply to Will: That is only to unlock the action to cycle it when there is a round in the chamber. If there is no round in the chamber and the action is not cocked you do not have to press that button. Basically it is only used to clear a live round from the chamber. It is also extremely easy to depress when holding the shotgun normally. It is only an issue depressing it if you move to a stock like my Specops.

Okay, that makes sense. The Mossy I had played with had an M4-style stock, and it made that button next to impossible to access.

In reply to Will: Yeah a pistol or Specops stock makes it more difficult but not impossible. You can still manipulate it with your thumb fairly easily.

Another direction to consider besides tacti-cool is something awesomely old school.

I've got a buddy who has an old .45 cowboy revolver. The sort with the trap door to load one bullet at a time, and full double action so you need to cock the hammer by hand each time. Practical in any way? Of course not, but he enjoys the heck out of shooting that thing. Says it's just fun to operate.

Maybe an old lever-action rifle? Go to the range and feel cowboy-like.

The most fun rifle I've ever shot was an old late Civil War vintage Springfield 45-70. Trapdoor loading. I'd highly recommend something like that, but the ammo is stupid expensive unless you reload.

If you want to have fun shooting with ammo that you don't have to worry about wasting, it's also hard to argue with a nice .22 plinking pistol.

Sure, you won't ever use any of these to defend your house, but realistically, you aren't going to have to anyway. If you want to buy something for a bit under $1k that will save the life of you or a loved one in a serious emergency, buy a defibrilator.

In reply to Will:

The 870's is in a weird place......it was weird enough I qualified with it left handed. Only way I could get past the dummy round quickly.

Beer Baron wrote: Another direction to consider besides tacti-cool is something awesomely old school. I've got a buddy who has an old .45 cowboy revolver. The sort with the trap door to load one bullet at a time, and full double action so you need to cock the hammer by hand each time. Practical in any way? Of course not, but he enjoys the heck out of shooting that thing. Says it's just fun to operate. Maybe an old lever-action rifle? Go to the range and feel cowboy-like. The most fun rifle I've ever shot was an old late Civil War vintage Springfield 45-70. Trapdoor loading. I'd highly recommend something like that, but the ammo is stupid expensive unless you reload. If you want to have fun shooting with ammo that you don't have to worry about wasting, it's also hard to argue with a nice .22 plinking pistol. Sure, you won't ever use any of these to defend your house, but realistically, you aren't going to have to anyway. If you want to buy something for a bit under $1k that will save the life of you or a loved one in a serious emergency, buy a defibrilator.

Lever rifles can be fired surprisingly fast, especially if they're chambered in a pistol caliber or .30-30. .45-70, on the other hand....

More importantly, the action lock lever does NOT need to be pushed to rack the gun. If you fire, it moves into the trigger assembly (like it was being pushed) so the gun can be racked/reloaded. The only time that stupid little button needs to be pushed is if you are unloading a loaded gun.

Precisely. Not that I would know, because I don't own any guns, Feinstein.

yamaha wrote: In reply to stroker: I can agree with the handguns and garand......but the rest is questionable. 870, 308 bolt action, and 30-30 are the weapons of yuppies in my area. Id recommend a mossy before the 870 anyways.

re: 870 v M500. Poh-TAY-toh, poh-TAH-toh....

I've got a hammered Coach gun and a Winchester '97. I don't shoot scatterguns unless I'm doing Cowby Action.

As for the bolt gun, I'm partial to the Scout Rifle concept. Like I said, if you want to fulfill your Militia obligations, get a AR/AK, but for JUST ONE RIFLE it's tough to not go with a bolt 308 for civilian applications....