Sometimes I hate my predictions coming true...

I've been telling my two daughters (16 and 14) for years that they need to stay the berkeley away from Social Media.  I told them YEARS ago that the odds were they wouldn't get through high school without someone they know committing suicide. 

My younger has now had to summon police intervention for two of her acquaintances threatening suicide.  This morning she was awfully quiet.  I asked her if she was okay and she replied that she found out last night that a former classmate at her middle school had committed suicide.  

This society is effed up and the problems are so complicated I doubt we can fix them.

Is it me, or was this simply not a significant problem fifty years ago?

I suspect it was almost as bad then, just far less visible. I certainly knew suicides during my high school years. I graduated in 1970.

In reply to stroker :

Have you watched 13 reasons why?  Yeah....it be like that.

TurnerX19 said:

I suspect it was almost as bad then, just far less visible. I certainly knew suicides during my high school years. I graduated in 1970.

This. 

For some reason, when thinking about the 50 years ago comment, my mind went to Heathers the '88 movie on the topic (well, sorta on the topic.)

My school was small enough I know we didn't have anyone in my grade, or the grades above or below me that committed suicide, but I was also 100% oblivious as a teenager.  My best friend thought about it several times and went as far as putting a shotgun in his mouth and pulling the trigger.  It was only cause of our mutual best friend berkeleying around where he wasnt supposed to that the gun wasnt loaded.  I didn't know about any of that for years after. 

Thinking "it wasnt like this 50 years ago" probably isnt helpful as no one I have met is a reliable narrator when discussing their own history.

TurnerX19 said:

I suspect it was almost as bad then, just far less visible. I certainly knew suicides during my high school years. I graduated in 1970.

Absolutely this.

It's not necessarily more frequent per capita.  It's just far more likely to be discussed, both before and after the fact.

And if you want to look at it another way, wasn't your daughter able to intervene because of social media?  Otherwise, she might never have known.

I'm sorry to hear about the death, though.

I think a lot of what we know that goes on out there has been brought to the surface by social media, and it has been going on the entire time. Before social media, stuff like this just got kept secret or did not get publicized. It's really a double edged sword. 

I always have that talk with my parents when they say "everything was better when we were growing up" back in the 60's and then when I dig deeper, all the bad stuff they hear about in the news still happened, but no one paid attention or talked about it openly. There was an inherent shame that hung over talking about anything bad like this that is far less widespread now. 

Just last night, my dad told me about some guy in a pickup truck that tried to kidnap him and his friends when they were kids. They ran away and caused a big scene, which made the guy take off. They never told their parents or the cops; they just went on with their day. If that happened today, the kids would have taken a pic of the truck, texted their parents, spread it all over social media, a local news agency or group page would have picked it up and spread the word, and the guy would be sitting in a jail cell within hours. The incident still happened, but the response is different. 

In that case, that's a good thing to take a bad person off the street, but it goes the other way when awful stuff like bullying and cyberbullying causes people to try to ruin others' lives to the point of suicide. It's easier for people to be terrible to each other now, and it's hard for people growing up to understand how to respond to the pressure. It was hard enough as a kid getting bullied at school when I was growing up without the online peanut gallery joining in. I feel awful for the kids that have to deal with this now. 

I graduated from high school in 98 and knew of 3 within my high school during my 4 years there, one whom I was close with, and knew of many more of college classmates while in undergrad one of which compounded what was the beginning of the PTSD that I still largely struggle with today. 

Does it suck, absolutely. But sheltering adolescents from it is not the answer. Meaningful constructive engagement that prompts exchange of perspective and a feeling of support is. Now obviously that's a complicated thing to develop that requires a specialized skill set, which is why there are professionals to seek out. 

Perhaps more complicated than I thought...

In reply to Mr_Asa :

I too was oblivious in High School. I was completely shocked when a friends sister was arrested with drugs in the bathroom. I has NO idea that anyone at Rootstown High was taking drugs. 

In reply to stroker :

Looking at the "social media" part of that graph, it definitely looks like there's been some influence. I think a large part of it is the echo chamber. It's so much easier to get grouped into a community that just reinforces your feelings - which is exactly what social media is trying to do, but it's a real negative when it's someone who's struggling and not someone who likes lifted Kei cars.

Also, I was 19 during that big peak in 1990. What the hell? The only person I knew who tried was a girl and that was 100% internal wiring, not societal.

The drop in 2020 is unexpected given how that that age group was affected socially. I've always felt they were hit harder than anyone, it's hard to get that first date and first job during a shutdown.

In reply to stroker :

That graph is interesting. I graduated high school in 1988 and knew several people who committed suicide. All were male. My now 21 y/o daughter had a close male friend commit suicide while in high school. 

It's almost an entirely different conversation, but much of what I see is about how difficult social media makes things for girls. I see very little about the challenges for boys. I suspect that it relates to the shame aspect that another poster mentioned above. Yet the rate for males is much higher.

As far as social media, I think my girls would have been much happier without it in their lives. That cat is already out of the bag though - there's no going back.

As a certified old guy, there's a lot that was better "back in my day." There's also a whole lot that wasn't better. It's hard to be objective when looking at it. Oh, and get off my lawn! 

In reply to Motojunky :

It has been known for a good long while that the methods males of all ages use typically mean that they have a higher success rate in suicide attempts than females.

I think the attempt number gets closer to parity?  Not 100% on that, but I believe I read that.

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to Motojunky :

It has been known for a good long while that the methods males of all ages use typically mean that they have a higher success rate in suicide attempts than females.

I think the attempt number gets closer to parity?  Not 100% on that, but I believe I read that.

That makes sense, thanks. I sense a research rabbit hole coming on... 

camopaint0707 said:

In reply to stroker :

Have you watched 13 reasons why?  Yeah....it be like that.

My children, unbeknownst to me, watched this "13 Reasons Why" trash on Netflix.   They both got seriously depressed and one started on a "self harm" fixation that lasted 3 years plus going in and out of mental hospitals.  They told us they couldn't stop fixating on the events of that show - like an OCD thing.      I think kids today are in information overload.   No way they can maturely process all the stuff available or figure out what to filter out as trash.   TV's shows for kids always show adults as clueless hapless people that appear to trigger the laugh tract.  So no respect for parental advice is the result of this brainwashing.    Then the shows for teens fixate on "losing one's virginity" as if that is perfect rite of passage to be a mature adult.  Destructive rubbish packaged to warp young minds.

I was not aware of any suicides with younger people when I was in high school, and I was right in the peak area. 

I did talk to a younger guy the other day, and he says he know of a number of people his age who have died of Fentanyl OD's.

So, maybe the current suicide situation is more media driven, while the death in general situation is more reality.

The linked article with that graph was interesting for as far as I was able to read it while at work.  I'd recommend that if you find the graph interesting you read the article. 

In reply to stroker :

I knew two kids that ended their lives when I was in high school in the early nineties, and I first started considering it around then as well.  Social media doesn't cause as many things as much as it makes the world smaller so you'll hear about more instances of them. 

Are teen age girl eating disorders still a thing?  In the 80s/90s they were "in the news" all the time.  

Is it that eating disorders are out of the news or am I out of the target audience of that news?

Bad things happened 50 years ago.

Doesnt change the fact that teen suicide rate is at an all-time high. 
 

Things are definitely worse, and social media does have something to do with it. 

John Welsh said:

Are teen age girl eating disorders still a thing?  In the 80s/90s they were "in the news" all the time.  

Is it that eating disorders are out of the news or am I out of the target audience of that news?

About 10-15 years ago the daughter of friends of my ex wife's family went full eating disorder.

Waking up at midnight to exercise.  Not eating. Purging. Etc etc. 

She was... 15?  Her period stopped, she lost enough weight that she wasnt able to regulate her body temperature and grew a light downy fur all over her body.

So, yes.

stroker said:

The linked article with that graph was interesting for as far as I was able to read it while at work.  I'd recommend that if you find the graph interesting you read the article. 

I just gave it a quick read. Interesting indeed.

Somewhat coincidentally, I just read this article an hour or so ago. Thing is, back when I was in school and teachers had the liberty to teach in a less structured way, school was far and away my biggest source of stress. 

https://www.facebook.com/share/pCAL29z9cEmSJJX6/?mibextid=WC7FNe

Report Shows Most Students Failing to Meet Academic Standards

New statewide student assessment results show that most Delaware public school students continue to fall far short of academic standards.

According to data released this week by the Department of Education, only 40% of students in grades 3 through 8 scored at or above their proficiency level this year in English Language Arts (ELA)—the same as in 2023.

In mathematics, just one-third of students (33%) in grades 3 through 8 scored at or above their grade standard, an increase of a single percentage point from last year. 

Overall, proficiency remains below the pre-pandemic levels in 2019 (53% in ELA and 44% in mathematics).

For high school statewide assessment, Delaware employs the SAT, a standardized test used by many colleges and universities for admissions, financial aid, placement, and other purposes.

This year, 45% of students scored proficient or higher on the reading test, up one percentage point from last year, while less than one-fifth (18%) scored proficient or higher in mathematics, down five percentage points from last year.

On the essay portion of the SAT, 37% were proficient, down five percentage points from last year.

In 2019, 48% scored proficient or higher on the SAT reading test, with 28% doing so in math and 42% on the essay.

“These results spotlight how great our students’ needs remain,” said Secretary of Education Mark Holodick in a prepared news release. “Just looking at the statewide data doesn’t tell the full story. To really understand what’s working and what needs adjustment, we must disaggregate the results to dig into the district, charter, and school building data, including grade level and demographic results. That’s how we can determine which interventions are having impact and affecting outcomes.”

Department of Education officials note that much of the state’s focus over the past year has been on early literacy, with some elementary schools showing progress in third-grade English Language Arts proficiency. For example, Brandywine School District’s Harlan Elementary School had 27% of its third-graders meeting or exceeding the ELA standard, an increase of 21 percentage points from last year.

Former school board member, State Rep. Charles Postles (R-Milford North, Frederica), said the latest assessment results should be viewed as a crisis. “While I am encouraged that the renewed emphasis on traditional methods of teaching literacy due to laws we passed in the legislature are slowly starting to show results, no objective review of the latest assessments should inspire anything other than alarm. Sixty percent of our children are failing to meet standards in reading and writing, and 67%—more than two-thirds—are not meeting the mark in math. That performance is not only unacceptable, I see it as an urgent call to action.”

State Rep. Bryan Shupe (R-Milford South), a member of the House Education Committee, echoed Rep. Postles’s concerns. “I have been talking about this for a while. We have dedicated educators who are struggling to teach effectively because they are prohibited from being able to maintain discipline in their classrooms. At the same time, students are missing record amounts of instructional time, with chronic absenteeism at all-time highs. You can’t teach kids who are not in school. These latest results highlight the need to take dramatic steps. Incremental actions are not sufficient to deal with the vast shortfalls we’re seeing.”
Source: Delaware State House of Representatives, Republican Caucus

I don't know how all of mine avoided social media but they did. 32/28/23 years old and none have or had any interest in Facebook/instagram/etc. I'm ok with it, gotta be less drama that way

I am always available for hug.