No flounders or politics (he says, knowing he's stupid for asking)
As a 47-year summer Canadian and (almost) land owner in Ontario, I wanted to reach out to those that are affected by the border closing, or those who may have insight on the mechanics of it.
Americans don't really have in-your-face access to real news. Ever since we did away with the Fairness Doctrine in the 80s, it's infotainment. I always learn more about my home country by listening to CBC and (to some extent) Global for the 3 months I'm up north than I ever do listening to anything for the 9 months I'm in the US. I primarily listen to BBC and NPR and I get snippets of border/covid news, but this is starting to confuse me.
I understand that Trudeau wants 70% Canadian-side vax rate, correct? I also understand that he's having trouble getting there. (we are too)
Is there some legal issue why allowing vaxxed yankees to cross wouldn't work? In theory, allowing vaccinated people to cross would only allow for a tiny percentage of risk to Canadians.
Is it that it's still to hard to definitively prove a vaccination record?
Where is the crossover between risk of fake vax card versus lifeblood to the economy?
The real reason I'm asking is because down here, we get the filtered, political twist on everything. I'm trying to get down to brass tacks. Is Trudeau being smart and I'm missing something, or is he being Parliamentastic and making it something it isn't?
Translated... I haven't seen my northern home for two years and I'm getting REALLY frustrated.
I've never seen a thread on a car forum before where nobody should dare mention a Ford.
I think the general feeling is that Canada just came out of a pretty rough time with the virus and we are now getting on top of it with vaccines continuing to roll out. A month ago it was very different here, the light was starting to appear at the end of the tunnel as we were coming out of a serious third wave in much of the country. ICU's were full and patients were being transported out of their home provinces for treatment (or worse with Delta).
The good news is that numbers are getting better and better but I think the difference here compared to the US is that we are still testing and tracking pretty diligently. I personally live in Waterloo Region where the Delta variant has taken hold in mostly our unvaccinated population and I think the reality is that will happen in other places as well. In general we haven't been hit as hard as the US so there is less natural immunity (whatever that actually is) for unvaccinated people which also makes us more vulnerable until more get their shots. The rollout is going ahead full steam though and vaccines are being given out as fast as we can get them.
I'm guessing this last extension will be the last and I believe it ends on July 21 so there is still hope for you to come up here and enjoy part of the summer. We will see though but I am hopeful.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:
I've never seen a thread on a car forum before where nobody should dare mention a Ford.
Yeah, lets not go there lol.
The border will start opening up to fully vaccinated individuals after July 5. Details......Use ArriveCAN: Submit travel information to enter Canada - Canada.ca
Fully vaccinated with vaccines that meet the Canadian criteria. I haven't looked at the details, but I imagine any of the US approved vaccines meet the criteria, but you ought to check. It looks like there are some reduced quarantine and reporting requirements, but still a lot of hoops to jump through.
adam525i said:
I think the general feeling is that Canada just came out of a pretty rough time with the virus and we are now getting on top of it with vaccines continuing to roll out. A month ago it was very different here, the light was starting to appear at the end of the tunnel as we were coming out of a serious third wave in much of the country. ICU's were full and patients were being transported out of their home provinces for treatment (or worse with Delta).
The good news is that numbers are getting better and better but I think the difference here compared to the US is that we are still testing and tracking pretty diligently. I personally live in Waterloo Region where the Delta variant has taken hold in mostly our unvaccinated population and I think the reality is that will happen in other places as well. In general we haven't been hit as hard as the US so there is less natural immunity (whatever that actually is) for unvaccinated people which also makes us more vulnerable until more get their shots. The rollout is going ahead full steam though and vaccines are being given out as fast as we can get them.
I'm guessing this last extension will be the last and I believe it ends on July 21 so there is still hope for you to come up here and enjoy part of the summer. We will see though but I am hopeful.
Truth is, I hadn't seen in regular media here that it was Delta. BBC's main focus right now on the Delta variant is South Africa. Most of the news I see down here is a strange combination of "Trudeau is awesome, let's be patient," or "Congress tells Trudeau to open the border or else."
Contact tracing was a big problem here. Americans can be, um... private in a conspiracy kind of way. We have reason to be given our legal structure, but 250 years of a paradigm of fear and 3 phone calls per day asking about our vehicle's extended warranty tends to make people not answer random questions about who they've interacted with in the last 14 days on the phone.
You likely won't see me this summer unless I get some free time. I ended up having to take some work that will probably prevent me from making it until Thanksgiving. (your thanksgiving, that is.)
Just know that my heart is up there even if I'm not. Thanks for the insight.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:
The border will start opening up to fully vaccinated individuals after July 5. Details......Use ArriveCAN: Submit travel information to enter Canada - Canada.ca
Fully vaccinated with vaccines that meet the Canadian criteria. I haven't looked at the details, but I imagine any of the US approved vaccines meet the criteria, but you ought to check. It looks like there are some reduced quarantine and reporting requirements, but still a lot of hoops to jump through.
Problem is, my only honest reason for visiting is not allowed at all. I would have to stretch the truth to do it. I dig the link, but it would more or less amount to me lying to get in. Canada is like my best friend's house.
The Canadian rules seem to be made up on the fly and have no basis in science or common sense. As of the fifth of July I can visit the US (already have four trips booked) because I am fully vaccinated but allowing a fully vaccinated American north is far too dangerous. And the borders have been open except if you don't know how to play the game, and you need to quarantine coming in if you arrive by air, but not everyone and if you arrive by land you are asked to go home and wait there for a while. And if you cross at a land border on the commercial side as I often do it is business as usual. No questions no quarantine no negative test.
I do often credit Canada for being just as good at red tape as your English Monarchy ties would suggest :) Sometimes your rules seem to be rules for the sake of rules.
Commercially, I understand. Business gotta biz, trucks gotta truck. My involvement (at least until I officially expatriate) is purely recreational and I'm not desperate enough to bend rules at this point, especially given the potential repercussions of being denied entry.
Rons
HalfDork
7/19/21 2:04 p.m.
ShawnG
UltimaDork
7/19/21 9:53 p.m.
Our rules are simply asinine.
I know plenty of people who flew into Seattle and drove home because they didn't want to spend time in a Covid hotel.
Before I was born, my family moved to Canada and obtained landed immigrant status. My brother currently lives in Canada and my parents own property there and spend time in both countries. I haven't seen my brother in person since sometime in mid-2019, and only seen my folks once since the pandemic started when they were back in the States. I'm hoping I can head north soon!
I think the rules here are generally reasonable (minus a few ridiculous entry loopholes) and mostly evidence-driven, recently we've seen some places jump the gun and receive an instant case spike that undoes months of sacrifice (the UK, Alberta, even fully tourism-dependent Barbados looks like they just gambled and lost hard), let's not do that mmmkay? Some extra caution looks like a decent idea after seeing what just happened to less cautious jurisdictions.
The only legal issue with allowing vaxxed yankees in is the same as with any other non-Canadians, in that it's legally much more difficult to refuse a citizen entry for any reason, thus the rules that seem to treat Americans like they're more infectious than Canadians somehow. My parents (who are Canadian citizens) are flying in later this week and basically it seems like if you're not exploiting any loopholes, the only thing being fully vaccinated makes easier vs. the days of pre-vaccine travel is that you can get out of quarantine early if your arrival test comes back clean. Should be in a day, but apparently could be a week or more so who knows!
Frankly in the last few weeks I've begun to think I may have to reconsider the travel plans I had for later in the year.
I'm looking forward to seeing my family for the first time since early 2020 - and that my American better half will be able to come along too.
I'm hoping to do a weekend driving school at Grattan Raceway in mid September but if it involves getting a test done going both ways it's not really worth it for 3 days. We will see how things go though and maybe it will change for the better but I will be surprised.
I do wonder how they will handle quick non-essential trips across the border, can a I get the appropriate test in Canada that satisfies both countries requirements and use the same test going both ways? I realize we are still waiting on the American's to update their status otherwise I'd have to fly in to the US for that quick trip with the current regulations.
