NASA is "evaluating future return opportunities" 
I'm sure SpaceX would be happy to bring them down if they can't find another ride. :)
As I understand it, though, it's not that they can't land. They are trying to debug some issues on the service module of the Starliner and that piece is discarded after they undock and make the landing burn. It burns up in the atmosphere, so they're staying up there so that the engineers can spend more time looking at the problems.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
well, that and the thruster issues they had during the approach could happen again and possibly screw up maneuvering or the deorbit burn. The test fire while docked went OK, but I don't think they have a real handle on why they failed and that would make me nervous.
First rule in surviving problems in space is to buy time. They have 45 days of on-station time available if they need it. Boeing isn't being totally forthcoming on if they're trying to learn more before discarding the service module or if they're concerned about crew safety. Answer is likely "yes".
SpaceX taxi home has some challenges, not least of which is that the suits aren't compatible between Starliner and Dragon. But it would seem to be the most likely option if Starliner is deemed too dangerous.
It would be hard to get me into anything Boeing right now and I drive VW products knowing the headliner is going to fall and the electrical is bound to fail.
Suits won't matter I think as SpaceX can just bring some, but good thought. I would have missed that point thinking they'd be standardized.
Boeing you say?
Y'know, Between sketchy space planes, and sketchy submarines, I'm gonna go ahead and not get in any weird metal tubes if I don't have to. (As i'm flying to Mpls in august. )
Anyone read the title and think, "Hot damn! Fords bringing back the Fairlane?"
Appleseed said:Anyone read the title and think, "Hot damn! Fords bringing back the Fairlane?"
with the death of the LX platform and the Camaro- a 4 door Coyote derived hot sedan from the Oval might do well at market to the right crowd. Make an excellent PPV as well, certainly better than an Explorer.... imo of course.
In reply to Mndsm :
SUVs are just fat station wagons. No one will admit it.
Keith Tanner said:First rule in surviving problems in space is to buy time. They have 45 days of on-station time available if they need it. Boeing isn't being totally forthcoming on if they're trying to learn more before discarding the service module or if they're concerned about crew safety. Answer is likely "yes".
SpaceX taxi home has some challenges, not least of which is that the suits aren't compatible between Starliner and Dragon. But it would seem to be the most likely option if Starliner is deemed too dangerous.
SpaceX has four Crew Dragon capsules, perhaps they can send one of the others up if necessary?
preach said:It would be hard to get me into anything Boeing right now and I drive VW products knowing the headliner is going to fall and the electrical is bound to fail.
QFT.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Keith Tanner said:First rule in surviving problems in space is to buy time. They have 45 days of on-station time available if they need it. Boeing isn't being totally forthcoming on if they're trying to learn more before discarding the service module or if they're concerned about crew safety. Answer is likely "yes".
SpaceX taxi home has some challenges, not least of which is that the suits aren't compatible between Starliner and Dragon. But it would seem to be the most likely option if Starliner is deemed too dangerous.
SpaceX has four Crew Dragon capsules, perhaps they can send one of the others up if necessary?
Right, but the suits are basically part of the spacecraft. They may or may not have ones that fit the astronauts.
I think all four Crew Dragons have things to do right now. I've seen a list - one is currently at the station, one is getting ready for the private spacewalk and has the docking fixture removed, one is being refurbished after a recent ISS trip. The fourth was used for a couple of tourist missions recently, I don't know the status. There's also the question of the human-rated booster availability, NASA may not let them use a "normal" Falcon to yeet an empty Crew Dragon. But I suspect they could shake all the components free fairly soon if they had to.
Bump.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2024/08/15/nasa-starliner-astronauts-iss/74590421007/
What with their apparent policy regarding termination of whistleblowers and reliability problems surrounding Starliner and other craft, you've got to wonder how the Director of Public Relations at Boeing is holding up.
Superfast Matt is generally awesome, but I will in particular point to the relevant humor in the first twelve seconds of this video:
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
Yeah, it's a mess. NASA hasn't officially decided what's going to happen yet, but Starliner is leaving the station in early Sept.
Will it have passengers? Boeing said "we totally just did a bunch of testing and some of it went well! So it'll be fine. Probably." NASA is not so sure since the root cause of the thruster failures hasn't really been determined and this spaceship has had a bunch of problems, many of which point to some serious problems with their testing and procedures. There is a SpaceX plan where two astronauts (instead of four) go up in the next Dragon - which has been delayed due to this Starliner failure - and the Starliner crew effectively takes the place of the missing two. They have appropriate suits for them now.
Problem is that Boeing disabled the code that allows Starliner to undock without a meat bag inside to push a button. So they're doing testing on the software with that turned back on, and Boeing has shown to have a little bit of trouble with software on Starliner. But that's the official reason for the delay. That plus a whole lot of politicking in the back room by Boeing.
There's also the question of what happens next. This was supposed to be a certification flight. Do you certify it? If not, does Boeing have to do another? They only have enough Atlas launch vehicles (they've been discontinued) to fulfill all of their crew launches and nothing else. So they could burn one of those and then only get paid for five crew missions. They could pay to human rate the new Vulcan but that means spending more money for not much benefit. ISS is running out of time too. There won't be a destination for a Starliner when it's gone. Does NASA really need a second service provider for crew transport to the ISS at this point?
What a mess.
Not Starliner, but a relative...
A new report finds Boeing’s rockets are built with an unqualified work force
There is a fascinating history to Boeing's fall from grace. The story has been written up at least 2 or 3 times but here are a couple of free articles that gives an overview:
https://qz.com/1776080/how-the-mcdonnell-douglas-boeing-merger-led-to-the-737-max-crisis
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/boeing-corporate-america-manufacturing/678137/
NASA would have to be nuts to allow somebody on that thing. They know there are problems with it that have already caused significant delays, and engineers obviously still have concerns. Even if everything is resolved 100% tomorrow, if something happens it looks like Challenger all over again.
I would just hope someone is paying my bills while on gilligans island....
Keith Tanner said:They could pay to human rate the new Vulcan but that means spending more money for not much benefit. ISS is running out of time too. There won't be a destination for a Starliner when it's gone. Does NASA really need a second service provider for crew transport to the ISS at this point?
Put it on a Falcon 9? :)
There are a bunch of post-ISS station plans, although whether or not Starliner would be a cost effective way to go to any of them I don't know.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
That would be funny :)
Sharing a launch vehicle may not meet NASA's desire for redundancy. If something grounds Falcon, that would affect both spacecraft. SpaceX actually had their first failure (of a non-test flight) in nearly a decade while Starliner was docked at the ISS, but they identified, fixed it and resumed flight in two weeks. That's not typical. Blue Origin was grounded for more than a year.
There are some post-ISS plans, but there's going to be a gap. The problem with Starliner is the existence of Dragon, which is both considerably less expensive and has a better record. Those future space stations are expected to be commercial with NASA as a tenant, and only NASA would choose to use Starliner for some flights - and only because they want it to hang around.
...and it's SpaceX to the rescue.
First opportunity for a Dragon flight to the ISS is September 24th.
Edit: Perhaps the mods can remove July from my title 
In reply to RX Reven' :
That's when Crew-9 will launch. It's not scheduled to come home until February.
It's odd that there is a 3 week lag between Starliner jettison and Crew-9 launch. That's the most dangerous time for the astronauts, as they'll be using the Crew-8 Dragon as a lifeboat if necessary and that involves riding down in shirtsleeves on a cargo pallet. Seems like you'd want to minimize that by hanging on to Starliner as long as possible.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Is it possible that there are concerns about a successful un-docking of the Starliner or leaving it attached to the ISS?
The PR damage is done so one would think it's all about safety now.
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