Suicide

One of the future-wife's co-workers committed suicide over the weekend. Girl only worked 1-day at her new job alongside my fiance and took her life by jumping from a local city parking garage.

I'd like to think there were outward signs or she had a history of depression, but I guess we'll never know. I hope nothing at my girl's workplace sparked the feelings, as its a pretty depressing place (refugee resettlement).

I've never, even in my lowest moments ever considered taking my own life. I'd sooner hike the Appalachian Trail, or get a one way ticket to South America before I decided life wasn't worth living.

These nuts that shoot up a mall as a way of going out are angry at the world, but what about those who devoted their lives to helping others? Those with everything to live for? Why do they believe there is only one option?

I know its not a happy haha subject but I kinda need some insight into a mental disorder that I cannot begin to understand.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Honestly, there is no way to know what demons haunt the people around us. Having healthy outlets and a good support system is crucial but even then some people can't cope.

You've never been low enough then, it's one of those things where you've really got to be there to understand it.

Also, it IS NOT necessarily "A temporary solution to a permanent problem". Some problems are for life, and when you're in that frame of mind, many problems that very well may be temporary, seem permanent(and no amount of being told otherwise will change that).

Sometimes life can be overwhelming. When people don't have a strong support network in their lives it can feel like you are completely alone. I've been there. It's not a place you want to go.

Sorry to hear about her untimely death. I hope she has found some peace.

A very good friend of mine killed himself many years ago. In a soul searching conversation one night, his GF told me why he did (he had called her at work, told her he was going to, said he loved her and hung up. She was the one who found him)and I couldn't believe the so called reason, still can't. To this day I still scratch my head over that whole thing. I don't have an answer to what finally pushes someone over that edge.

It is, in most cases I have heard of, a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But in some cases it might be justified; I support a person's right to decide what to do with their life in these instances. End stage cancer, for instance; WTF is the point of hovering there for days on end in constant agony and not able to care for yourself? Better to go with dignity.

I think the key take away here is that you should really be careful how much time you spend with that girl of yours.

My sister killed herself 15 years ago. My dad and my brother have been in and out of mental care facilities for a long time. Some people are broken. Sometimes they get better, sometimes they don't.

mazdeuce wrote: My sister killed herself 15 years ago. My dad and my brother have been in and out of mental care facilities for a long time. Some people are broken. Sometimes they get better, sometimes they don't.

As a mental health clinician and patient, this sums it up about perfectly. I wish I could explain why people do it. Especially to the loved ones of those who were successful. But I can't. I can tell you that if you ever get to and through that point, you'll completely understand.

Luckily I have saved more lives than I have failed in my career. Those that were successful gave very few outside indications of their intent prior to the act. Those that I've been able to help had to be willing to receive the help. Very few were willing but unable to take the help given and went through with it.

Dusterbd13 wrote: ...Luckily I have saved more lives than I have failed in my career...

I know this is normally reserved for another profession, but thank you for what you do.

The country, and the world, need far more people like you and I am sure you do not get the accolations that you really deserve. It has to be a tough (generally not very well paid) job that I am sure a lot could not do (I am pretty sure I couldn't).

In reply to PHeller: Hopefully they have security cameras to make sure she wasn't murdered.

Of all the places to work that someone does this, a refugee resettlement program? If there are people that have probably been through some E36 M3 its them and they're still going and keeping on. Seeing some of the stuff refugees have gone through makes a lot of my problems seem really mundane.

That's just my perspective, I know its impossible to understand the mindset of someone in that state without having been there before and thankfully I haven't. I seriously doubt there's anything your wife said to propt this or anyoneging she could have done to prevent it man.

Even if you’re just going to jump off a parking structure, you could first chalk off an outline of your body on the ground and then try to match it with your impact. I’d be fun and it’d totally perplex the CSI guys.

Personally, I’d find out what the actual VNE of the Cessna I just hotwired was.

I still remember the kid in high school, some 40 years ago. My Mom sat with me and talked about what happened and why. I guess it made it her feel better when I said that no matter what ever happens, I can't ever see suicide as an option. Sorry, but I personally have never been able to find justification. All I can figure, is that it means I haven't ever hit rock bottom, so who am I to know?

There aren't necessarily any outward signs.

I had dinner with a fellow I knew the night before he did it. He seemed exactly the way he had always been, maybe even in a better mood than usual.

It's been over ten years now and it still seems strange, the saddest part is, he's got two little kids who are now growing up without a dad.

The folks who go through with it aren't the ones on a bridge screaming "I'm gonna jump", (those people should be tazed until their fillings are hot) They're the normal, everyday folks with something badly amiss that seem to never tell anyone.

Shawn

back in the Mid-eighties I almost committed suicide. I was extremely sick with my Crohnes, which after 6 months in and out of the hospital on an almost weekly basis, was as of then undiagnosed. I had wasted away to about 90 pounds (at 5'11") and as this was the time when Aids was the big scare, they were giving me my own room in the hospital and all the nurses and doctors were treating me as if I had a communicable disease.

It was easter, it was sunny, and I was 15 and sitting on the windowsill of my hospital room window, 10 floors up above the main entrance. why the windows opened and how nobody noticed me sitting there with my legs dangling I will never know.. nor will I ever know why I decided to climb back inside.

That day taught me a lot.. and it has shaped me ever since. One of it's side effects is that I will always support a person's right to kill themselves. It is the last freedom anyone could ever have

I've debated telling my story more than once. Most of the time, I don't like to represent my past, and quite frankly, my present. But this seems like an appropriate situation to let you in on what goes on.

First things first. Suicide isn't rational. I struggle with thoughts of it...regularly. Now this isn't to say I'm ready to Peter Pan it off a bridge or anything, but it's a pervasive thought. Quite frankly a lot of times, it's one I can't get out of my head. The logical side of me say "Dude, you're bein' berkeleyin stupid. You grew up without parents and look where that landed you. Don't fail your kid or your wife or the few friends you do have. That's lame". Logical mndsm says it's dumb as E36 M3. Logic doesn't play into it. It's the most illogical thing on the face of the earth and what bothers me even more is I can do very little to control it completely. I've got a whole raft of meds I've been through, I've got doctors all over the place, had testing for everything they can measure (at my behest no less, because berkeley WANTING to be like this). The only things they can find out is I have anxiety issues, a panic disorder, and I waver between dysthymia (a mild but constant depression) and major depressive. 99% of the people out there would never know this about me unless I flat out told them. But the fact remains, it's still there.

The second part is, treatment is a guess at best. What works for some doesn't work for others. Drugs are a crap shoot. I seem to have a bit of a good mix going, but I still have rough days. I can get my ass out of bed though, so there is that. But even with therapy, drugs, ECT, hospitalization, whatever- the thought is very real and present.

The third thing- the reasons may not be clear to anyone, ever. Could I give you all a concise reason for wanting to kill myself? No, and that's the bitch of it. The thought is there, and I don't know why. I mean, I have a lot to go for. I have a couple sweet cars (except that stupid berkeleyin' MINI) a wife that lets me do whatever I damn well please, the most awesome kid on the face of the earth (seriously, he is the raddest dude ever, check it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6_vcJFaKns) but still, I sit sometimes by myself and want to swallow a bullet or something. My wife is well aware of this whole thing, and I can't even explain it to her.

The fourth thing is- ANYTHING can break the camels back, as it were. The most insignificant things can cause a mental breakdown to someone who's this close to the edge. Stuff as simple as your kid wrecking...whatever. My biggest pet peeve is my stuff. I don't have a lot of "personal" stuff anymore, and it always gets wrecked up because my kid is 2 and my wife is a clod. EVERYTHING gets wrecked up in this place. I get it, it's what I signed up for. But that doesn't mean my Xbox getting colored on can't send me off the deep end. Is it rational? NO. Can it happen? Yes. Because if the Xbox gets wrecked, what's to stop him from coloring on my car, and if he does that, why can't he just throw the damn thing in gear and smash it and and and and and and.... see it spirals so quickly, you're just like "berkeley it, I want out" before you get a chance to slow down.

Fifth- it can take VERY little to change someone's mind about it, without you even knowing it. I've been on the edge more times than I can count. Made a couple unsuccessful attempts (apparently my liver is hella strong) and came out the other side alive. But a lot of the times I haven't, was simply people bein' cool to me. I personally really appreciate simple gestures. A thank you. A dude, I like your car, whatever. A smile. A hot chick 10 years younger than me flirting with me. Ya know, the fun stuff! The simple fact of the matter is, anyone who is truly committed to the act of ending their lives (with the exception of weirdo cultists and end stage terminal patients) don't really broadcast it. I never said "Hey I'm about to try and off myself, big sale of my stuff tomorrow!". I proceeded as normal, and even put a better face on, because you know what, when you've finally made the decision, when you say berkeley it, I'm going for broke,there's relief there. Relief in knowing that no matter what happens, at the end of it, you're done. No more pain, no more addiction, no more abuse, no more whatever malady it is causing you to feel this way. In a sick way, it's very liberating. So those folks that are right there? You're probably not going to know it, in fact, they're probably going to seem happier to you than usual.

All in all, it's a E36 M3show. I dislike it greatly. But it's something I have to deal with on a daily basis if I wanna get up in the morning and talk about cars and surf craigslist for cheap beaters and so on.... so I do it. Some people just aren't strong enough to fight the battle, or they get so exhausted (and I have been) that they give the other option a go, and they're slightly more successful than I was.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...... where's that mx6 thread?

Lancer007 wrote: Of all the places to work that someone does this, a refugee resettlement program? If there are people that have probably been through some E36 M3 its them and they're still going and keeping on. Seeing some of the stuff refugees have gone through makes a lot of my problems seem really mundane. That's just my perspective, I know its impossible to understand the mindset of someone in that state without having been there before and thankfully I haven't. I seriously doubt there's anything your wife said to propt this or anyoneging she could have done to prevent it man.

See that's really a big part of it... it's not about your problems related to someone else's problems. There aren't really scales in a person's head that if experiences lived through are traumatic enough, that if you weigh them too much on the wrong side, you'll jump off a bridge, cut your wrists, eat a bullet, or take a bunch of pills and booze in the bathtub. Something inside of the person is causing unbearable mental anguish and pain, to the point where the internal mental pain becomes physical sometimes. I've been close to being there, closer than most of my family or friends really know, and it's an awful awful place to be that I wouldn't wish on anyone. True depression is a nasty debilitating situation. There doesn't have to be a 'cause', sometimes it's just there because of how a person is wired.

A lot of research has found that the mindset is incredibly short lived and the act itself largely based on an overwhelming impulse. That's a big part of why people use whatever's handy, most often medication or a gun, that'll get the job done and a big reason why it's a very good idea to keep those things locked up at home especially if you or someone in your life have suicidal thoughts. Just the extra minute it takes to unlock the safe or medicine cabinet could be enough to break out of the mental state.

mndsm wrote: The fourth thing is- ANYTHING can break the camels back, as it were. The most insignificant things can cause a mental breakdown to someone who's this close to the edge.

This is sooo true. I was at my lowest shortly after changing jobs 6-7 years ago (I put it down to the additional stress as a result of changing jobs), and if I didn't have my faith I'm not sure I'd be around anymore.

But it's not even things that happen to you that can be the tipping point - for me, even reading forums, and comprehending just how much work and effort a project car was requiring from someone else was overwhelming, and I had to put my laptop away.

Someone once explained it to me with the following analogy (and I can totally relate): For those who struggle with anxiety/depression/mental illness, it's as if their emotional cup is always nearly full (with the contents barely contained), and it just takes a very small amount to cause it to overflow.

The more we can raise awareness of this sort of thing, the better we can help those who suffer with it. Thanks for raising the topic.

In reply to skierd:

I completely understand that, life hasn't been a cakewalk and we all have our baggage. I just havebt hit bottom or I just don't have that mindset I dunno. I meant it with no judgment or condescension what so ever though.

Msdsm - that's gotta be a struggle man. And as someone who lost his father at quite a young age (young enough to have a handfull of memories) keep it for him if nothing else man, and yourself obviously but you know what I mean.

I'm just glad we have all held on long enough to be here to have this discussion. It helps me to know that other great minds struggle with this issue from time to time. I applaud you for your strength and courage.

Thank you for sharing your stories. It helps to know I'm not alone. Having just lost my job (again after 5 years) at 37 with not many prospects to look forward to combined with a wife who doesn't seem to understand and apparently sees me as some sort of lazy twat waffle that can't keep a steady job. I've got two broken cars and very few close friends. A few weeks ago I seriously considered ending it, tried to think of a way to make it look like an accident so my wife might get some insurance to carry her through. Not being able to come up with a sufficient plan finally stopped me. Didn't stop the pain I was feeling or that I am still feeling.

Tonight I was sideswiped by the wife after she got out of the shower and she lambasted me for not having a plan or any contingencies if I don't find a job. Complained that i spend too much time on the internet on car forums and facebook, etc. (probably true) and that i should be more productive with my time. Nevermind that ive got two job opportunities that im waiting to hear back on with a third possible one that should be opening up soon, i sold some car parts and made $500 today plus used the internet to learn about Linux to help broaden my skills a bit, etc. She already works damned hard and I'm as supportive as possible of that and try to take care of the house and her while im looking for work. It just never seems to be enough and every time i think im doing well she comes along and squashes me like a bug. Its the Asian DragonMom part of her, the over achiever that i never was or will be.

Honestly at this point I'd love a different career, but I'm afraid I'm too old to make it happen and be employable at the other end, not too mention most of the careers I'm looking at are about 20-30k below what I was making. Combined with apparently losing my wife's patience and her support along with the general feeling of being laid off, it's a been bad night for me... I'll get through it, coming here has helped and once she calms down I'll talk to her tomorrow and try to get her to understand where I'm coming from.

In reply to mndsm:

I'm in exactly the same situation as you. Almost exactly. Like, I could've written that.

It's not logical. I have literally no reason to be depressed or suicidal for years on end. Healthy family relations. I'm in a great school program. Job market kinda sucks, but what else is new? Healthy, adorable daughter. Hot wife who never holds a grudge. I'm not quite from a "1%'er" family, but lets just say there's no way i'll ever be homeless. I like my house, could have a larger garage, but otherwise i like it. I like my cars (one is a rotary that is NOT in need of apex seals). I get along with everybody. Logically, my life rocks. I'm one of the most fortunate people I know.

It's inexplicable. My wife has a psych degree, we have the books on hand and everything, and i still can't explain it fully to her. Thankfully, she already knew it was hard to explain going in. She said if I had a reason to be depressed, it wouldn't be a psychological disorder, it would just be a sucky life, which I clearly don't have.

I personally never did get to the point where I was teetering over the edge. Suicidal thoughts hit like road rage thoughts. If someone does something warranting road rage, you might think of following him and kicking him right in the nuts, but you wouldn't actually follow the guy until he got out of his car and roshambo him because he cut you off. If you thought about sack-kicking a guy this way hourly every day for years, you might have some issues. if you feel that way every day for years about eating a bullet, you're probably depressed, even if you wouldn't actually do it. Some camels have a weaker back, some have more straw on top. Some both. Thankfully I don't have much straw, but it wouldn't have taken much more.

I don't usually pimp books, but check this one out. Written by a clinical psychologist about an alternative way to treat depression. He doesn't say don't try the drugs, just that doing what he says has been shown in clinical trials to work, sometimes when drugs don't work. The stuff is based in some anthropological work done on some modern day hunter-gatherer people who have almost no depression (one marginal case out of 2,000, and she has a reason), and as an anthropologist that appealed to me. Nothing to lose except a few bucks (unless your local library has one), no risk since there are no drugs, etc... It's good advice even if you aren't depressed.

Sorry to hear Turboswede. I have been in similar boats in many respects. Contending with failure, perceived or actual, is quite challenging in a culture where "failure is not an option." Especially when exposed to Facebook and the like, where everyone puts their best face forward. It's easy to think that no one else is fallible.

The strategy that worked best for me was to focus on incremental gains, however small. Your selling $500 worth of stuff? That's a step forward. Now, can you put it in the bank, and organize the area that the stuff once occupied? There's another step. Learning Linux? Another. That is how I went from a failing college student about to drop out to one who had an okay 3.2 GPA while working management full-time. Small steps, and always looking forward.

For all of my everyday forums except GRM, I have had to "lock the door, throw away the key." Make a new email account, change the forum password retrieval to that address, and then change the password for both to something that I will never remember. Log out and don't look back. I really need to do the same with Facebook.

Mitchell wrote: I have been in similar boats in many respects. Contending with failure, perceived or actual, is quite challenging in a culture where "failure is not an option." Especially when exposed to Facebook and the like, where everyone puts their best face forward. It's easy to think that no one else is fallible.

I could never properly explain why I don't do facebook and the like, that sums it up pretty well.

Well it seems I've done myself a service to have written that. That actually makes me feel better. It's strange, I sat there waffling to myself like "Dude, these are greasy car dudes that listen to metal and stuff. They don't wanna hear about whiny emo wanna kill yourself problems" and the other side of me goes "I'm the greasy car dude that listens to metal and drinks beer and outwardly appears to have his E36 M3 in order, but it couldn't be further from the truth.... I'm the kind of person that needs to tell this story- so maybe someone else reads it and goes... alright it exists, maybe it's ok for me to be that guy too". Trust me, it's REALLY goddamn hard to admit to having these problems. I fought it for entirely too long. I lost what I thought was the perfect woman over it (turns out the cheatin' whore was well... a cheatin' whore but y'all read that story already) I thought it would just go away. This E36 M3 just does not go away. I can have the best day of my damn life down to the steak and the bj and I'll still sit in fear of something or get wildly depressed about something and then E36 M3 gets real again. But hey. I get up in the morning, I put my pants on (most of the time) I hang out with my kid, and I have a job again. (Sort of ironic, as it is quite literally a year and a half to the day from my last shift at my old job to my first shift at my new job). My new job pays total E36 M3, but it's the easiest job ever, and I get to sleep while I'm doing it. So really things are looking up.

As an aside, if anyone has any questions, etc, wanna pick my brain about something- feel free to shoot me a PM. Or ask on here. Whatevs.