GameboyRMH said:
If you believe that, I have a Democratic People's Republic to sell you. Look up who their political arch-enemies were and who they got political support from. I'd like to think that's a matter of history rather than politics.
A lot of people make a big deal about putting Stalin on the left and Hitler on the right, but I think that's really missing the point. Both Marxism-Leninism and Nazism were really about concentrating power in the hands of the state. When you come right down to it, does it actually matter if the State officially owns the means of production or if they simply make sure that the only people allowed to "own" companies are the ones who are friends with and support the dictator and do everything he wants? (the latter sounds a lot like China right now, doesn't it?). Did Stalin actually believe all that stuff that Marx wrote? (I doubt it), or did he just go along with it as a means of holding onto power?
They were both authoritarian/totalitarian regimes that had much more in common with each other than they did with the US. They were enemies because they were competing for power, with neither Stalin or Hitler willing to be a vassal to the other the way that Mussolini was to Hitler.
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
Sorry, self deleted.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
I remember you locking something on that thread, or a different thread because of it. If not you, I apologize. I do know that "is he a politician" has not been the line, politics in general has been. Either way, this thread has crossed it.
I keep hoping this thread gets locked, as some of the false and incendiary rhetoric deployed herein has me doing my utmost to withhold a torrent of bile directed towards the offending parties.
Shameful.
The problematic photo for Musk/Tesla isn't the salute photo.
The problem is this one:
It's been said that people may not remember what you say, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
In his new role, he was tasked with reducing perceived waste. The problem is that each one of those "wasteful" jobs that he eliminated represents a real person, with a real family, and real financial obligations. You can't fault any one of them for accepting a job that was offered to them, yet those jobs were abruptly taken away... completely upending their lives, their security and any plans that they had made for their future, or the future of their children.
That disruption is immediate and devastating... and here's Elon on stage, with a hat, sunglasses, a gold chain, a vajazzled chainsaw, and huge, stupid, berkeleying smile on his face, as he destroys peoples' lives. He's openly mocking each and every one of them, with his persona up front, and his name plastered across the backdrop.
Regardless of his ownership percentage, he is Tesla, and there's a huge part of the market that he (and they) will never, ever be able to get back. He's reduced the size of his pool of potential customers by an order of magnitude.
It's just bad business.
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
I wish I had more than one thumbs up available for this comment.
NOHOME
MegaDork
4/26/25 8:04 a.m.
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
Anyone recall that weird pillow vendor that torched his empire just for the publicity? Same thing all over again.
docwyte
UltimaDork
4/26/25 9:08 a.m.
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
I'll add on to this that people who accept a government job take it because they want stability. The expectation is that their job will be safe and steady, which is exchange for not making the same as they would in the private sector.
For those jobs to be deleted, often for spurious reasons (bad performance even though no bad performance reports on file, or just promoted) is simply wrong. I'm in the military and there are a lot of civilians who work with me who are awesome people and are extremely needed, yet are wondering if they're going to be axed at a moments notice. By a billionaire who has spent no time whatsoever researching what they do or how necessary they are...
docwyte said:
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
I'll add on to this that people who accept a government job take it because they want stability. The expectation is that their job will be safe and steady, which is exchange for not making the same as they would in the private sector.
For those jobs to be deleted, often for spurious reasons (bad performance even though no bad performance reports on file, or just promoted) is simply wrong. I'm in the military and there are a lot of civilians who work with me who are awesome people and are extremely needed, yet are wondering if they're going to be axed at a moments notice. By a billionaire who has spent no time whatsoever researching what they do or how necessary they are...
I'll add that they also often believe in the mission of doing work that they see as serving to generally benefit society at large.
Also that level of anxiety is massively detrimental to those workers doing quality and efficient work.
I'm also on a forum of bass players, and one member is a 20+ year public employee, only a few years from retirement. DOGE has entered his office and started making cuts and this is stressing out him and the rest of his team massively. It came up because the anxiety is making it difficult for him to practice bass and learn new songs/techniques the way he wants to - and is having an even bigger effect on his ability to do his job.
A true story from the brewing industry about cost cutting and efficiency:
Around the time I went to brewing school, InBev purchased Anheuser Busch (aka "Budweiser) henceforth AB. As part of the purchase and merger they went through ruthlessly cutting costs and increasing efficiency. Auditing all sorts of wasteful practices and spending.
They noticed that AB had and unnecessary number of glass bottle suppliers. Like at least half a dozen. I'm pretty sure it was more suppliers than they have breweries.
InBev decided this was wasteful and consolidated all glass purchasing to a centralized source in Mexico. This supplier was >10% cheaper than AB's current cheapest supplier. It was like 15%-20% savings on glass. AB/InBev dropped all these long-time suppliers like a bad habit.
Really improved efficiency.
Within the year, there was an earthquake almost directly underneath the warehouse. Effectively all the stock was lost.
There was one supplier in North America who had sufficient stock for AB/InBev's needs. They were one of the many that had been burned. They knew they were the only ones who could supply them.
Their price was suddenly 3x what AB had been paying before. In one transaction, they wiped out all of AB/InBev's cost savings for years.
The InBev operators had been following modern prevailing business practices of maximizing short term gains. Anheuser Busch was a legacy family company that recognized that stability, redundancy, and resilience are the better investment when you think about operations on the scale of decades instead of quarters or years.
Basically a classic example of Chesterton's Fence. Don't tear down a fence because you don't know why it's there. Only once you understand the real reason it's there should you consider removing it.
NOHOME said:
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
Anyone recall that weird pillow vendor that torched his empire just for the publicity? Same thing all over again.
Mike Lindell is still in the news, and still in trouble with the courts. His lawyers just submitted a legal brief that turned out to be AI generated, with a bunch of nonsensical stuff in it like references to fictional cases.
In reply to Beer Baron 🍺 :
This kind of thing is also happening with basic hospital supplies. It seems to be increasing in frequency. Most recent big one was IV fluids after the massive flooding in the Carolinas.
The short sighted lack of backups is infuriating...'Hey can you do today's open heart case without slush?' (Actual very short conversation with administrator 🤦♂️)
XLR99 (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to Beer Baron 🍺 :
This kind of thing is also happening with basic hospital supplies. It seems to be increasing in frequency. Most recent big one was IV fluids after the massive flooding in the Carolinas.
The short sighted lack of backups is infuriating...'Hey can you do today's open heart case without slush?' (Actual very short conversation with administrator 🤦♂️)
It also led to the auto manufacturing chip shortages and why they affected American car companies worse than Japanese. The Americans tried to copy the Japanese just-in-time model, but didn't understand that part of that planning was understanding what components were critical with delicate supply chains that could lead to derailing production. So the Japanese companies actually kept significant buffer stock of those critical chips.
It's not manufacturing, but the constant pursuit of short term gains vs sustainable growth is one reason I've stayed with the company I'm at. Even though I'm kind of burned out and would like a change of scenery.............we are one of the few tech companies that didn't have massive layoffs as COVID was winding down.
Because we didn't go on a massive hiring sprees with outrageous salaries, to turn around 18-24 months later to lay off tens of thousands of people. We kept everyone and went on a hiring freeze, around 100 people were laid off from the parent company, but almost every single person that wanted one, found another position in one of the many other companies under Oracle's umbrella.
I know I can make a larger salary elsewhere, but I also really enjoy the stability and outrageous healthcare that allows me to have my fiance on it. She has an auto-immune disease that she has a monthly infusion for. She had it the week before my surgery in January, it was an outpatient surgery and even though we are on an HSA plan, my total out of pocket for everything was $850. And that included anesthesia, OR, surgeon, meds, everything.
z31maniac said:
...outrageous healthcare that allows me to have my fiance on it. She has an auto-immune disease that she has a monthly infusion for. She had it the week before my surgery in January, it was an outpatient surgery and even though we are on an HSA plan, my total out of pocket for everything was $850. And that included anesthesia, OR, surgeon, meds, everything.
Side rant - this should not be radical or outrageous. This should be the norm.
Beer Baron 🍺 said:
z31maniac said:
...outrageous healthcare that allows me to have my fiance on it. She has an auto-immune disease that she has a monthly infusion for. She had it the week before my surgery in January, it was an outpatient surgery and even though we are on an HSA plan, my total out of pocket for everything was $850. And that included anesthesia, OR, surgeon, meds, everything.
Side rant - this should not be radical or outrageous. This should be the norm.
I meant outrageous in a good way. IE, we have really, really good healthcare benefits for a very reasonable cost.
Covering myself and my fiance is cheaper with dramatically better coverage than previous jobs cost with just me on them.
All I had to do to get a thread locked was to say that Trump got shot. No comment in support or against. This one has certainly gotten off the tracks.
In reply to low_n_slow :
Actually I think that it started that way and cooler minds prevailed. Good work, gentlemen.
z31maniac said:
I meant outrageous in a good way. IE, we have really, really good healthcare benefits for a very reasonable cost.
Covering myself and my fiance is cheaper with dramatically better coverage than previous jobs cost with just me on them.
I know. I meant that having ready access to really good healthcare for a very reasonable cost SHOULD be normal. The level of coverage you have now and the costs you paid are what EVERYONE in the developed world should have access to.
Last year I racked up something like $6,000 in medical expenses just in *testing*. Granted the largest of those was an emergency room visit, but it was brought on by having intermittent symptoms and my general physician saying, "Go to an emergency room. That's the only place with the equipment to run the tests you need without an appointment."
Beer Baron 🍺 said:
I know. I meant that having ready access to really good healthcare for a very reasonable cost SHOULD be normal. The level of coverage you have now and the costs you paid are what EVERYONE in the developed world should have access to.
If you want to keep the thread unlocked, I don't think derailing it into health care costs is the way to go. :)
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
True.
Also, how is it not already locked 🔒?
Indy - Guy said:
Also, how is it not already locked 🔒?
As I see it there are three different levels of conversation on a "politics" thread:
1) Analysis of facts that are generally agreed upon to be true, and making projections about what may result from those facts. Examples: Musk is head of DOGE, DOGE is doing things in the government, many people dislike those things, this is leading to Tesla's share price dropping, where does the company go from here?
2) Taking a side on which of those facts are good things.
3) Name calling and other personal attacks against other people on the thread because of disagreements about level 2.
In my experience, level 3 is the one that causes genuine harm to an otherwise-cohesive online community. Level 2 can be constructive, but is dangerous because not everyone is capable of discussing it without escalating to level 3. Thus far this thread has about been about 90% contained in level 1, and I suspect that's probably why it hasn't been locked.
