The exodus has begun...

Today eBay's new feedback policy went into place (neutrals now count as negatives, sellers can only leave buyers positive feedbacks). 3,500 sellers and counting left for ecrater, 1,500 and counting left for onlineauction. One of the Top 5 All-Time eBay sellers completely closed down shop. The CEO that came up with the "brilliant" plan announced he's stepping down as well. This is going to be ugly...

OK, more explaining is needed...

In the "old" system, buyers and sellers could leave each other any feedback (Positive/Neutral/Negative). There was also a limp-wristed "Non-paying Bidder strike" (NPB) and a decent buyer protection policy backed up by an ironclad (and sued over) PayPal buyer protection policy (see paypalsucks for more on the PP issue, it's a completely separate deal though they are owned by eBay). Positives were worth +1, Neutrals were worth 0, and Negatives were worth -1. Feedback was kept FOREVER and the percentage rating (the 99.7% or whatever next to name) was lifetime (calculated by all positives divided by all positives and negatives combined). Repeat buyers/sellers feedback counted for the %, but not the number (the 327 next to the name/star).

The "new" system allows buyers to leave whatever feedback they want (Positive/Neutral/Negative) but sellers (ALL sellers) can only leave POSITIVE feedback. Positives are worth +1, Neutrals and Negatives are BOTH worth -1. The percentage is now calculated by positives in the last 12 months divided by all positives, negatives, and neutrals in the last 12 months. Repeat buyers/sellers now count. In addition, the NPB strike no longer has any teeth (you need 3 within a certain time period and fraudulent charge-backs or PayPal withholdings do NOT count as "non-paying"), and the "Seller Protection Policy" is only for PowerSellers, period.

This is a one-sided and idiotic system that favors large, impersonal sellers and allows buyers free reign to chargeback after they've received goods and threaten negative feedbacks with no fear of retaliation. Sellers like myself (11 years but only ~500 auctions, maybe ~200 sales?) who have a long, storied history of 100% (or very, very close to it) feedback are now at the mercy of ANY buyer (even those with 0 to 10 feedbacks) leaving a sudden negative or neutral. Large PowerSellers who sell hundreds of items per month will not only be immune to the changes (by massive quantity shoring up their %) but also are the SOLE recipients of the Seller Protection Program (to guard against threats, extortion, and fraud).

Kiss small to medium sellers goodbye. Giant overseas warehouses of knock-off goods will be the only sellers left in eBay...

Examples!!! "Feedback Left For Others", check the dates!

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=inkedbarbie&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers

He jumped the gun, but a negative for "messy peanuts"???

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=robjennings&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers

More:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=shadowfire0101&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers

How about buyers being able to make their feedback private, so you can't see what they've left for others?

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=10seconds2love&ftab=AllFeedback&userblob=39DDC0B8610A70E0AB45F00E5914AA7463981378CD9C959EF10E3A5FED9405F4D351599E2817C55BA34337D6F56339FD2703D59B73E72BC3

This person openly admitted on eBay to leaving negatives today because... "I just left a negative feedback for a seller. Normally I would have let the issue slide, but with the new policies, I figured why not?"

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000570875&tstart=0&mod=1211264636653

What about the CEO selling stock right before the changes and implosion?

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080519/ebay_insider_transactions.html?.v=1

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/docudrama/2008/01/25/did-whitmans-100-million-in-ebay-stock-sales-foretell-her-stepping-down/

No bad buyers, are you sure? Read about the fraud and scams!

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000701413&tstart=0&mod=1211264115447

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000700776&tstart=120&mod=1211255981199

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=droids2010&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers

"Held hostage for Positive feedback"

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=slotstuff&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers

"I THOUGHT I paid!!"

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=michaelrash40&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers

eBay is practically begging buyers to leave negatives!

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000701512&tstart=40&mod=1211263285889

"I LEFT 27 NEGATIVES TODAY!!!!!!!"

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000701524&tstart=0&mod=1211266686252

The bigger they are the harder they fall; haven't we all seen this coming?

P71 wrote: Kiss small to medium sellers goodbye. Giant overseas warehouses of knock-off goods will be the only sellers left in eBay...

Uh... as far as I can tell that was all eBay has been... for like 5 years now.

Not sure how you've concluded that in the past there was a "decent buyer protection policy backed up by an ironclad (and sued over) PayPal buyer protection policy" Been through them both, and neither were decent or iron clad. They weren't then, and they aren't now. Be it from either the buyer or sellers perspective.

As for kissing small sellers goodbye, that's been a long time past. The fees kill little listings. They have for several years now.

I made more money scrapping a ton (literally) of Spitfire treasures than I could have selling them on e-bay. And it took me a lot less time.

P71 wrote: Today eBay's new feedback policy went into place (neutrals now count as negatives, sellers can only leave buyers positive feedbacks). 3,500 sellers and counting left for ecrater, 1,500 and counting left for onlineauction. One of the Top 5 All-Time eBay sellers completely closed down shop. The CEO that came up with the "brilliant" plan announced he's stepping down as well. This is going to be ugly...

That is pretty rad, though. A big "F-U" in solidarity that kicked the ass of a big company.

La Resistance!!! :grin:

Ebay has left a bad taste in my mouth for a while now. Most recently, I purchased a $26 item. I always pay with money orders, which the buyer listed as one of their acceptable forms of payment. I sent it off that day. That night, I received an email, that if the money order wasn't received in 7 days, they'd open a non-payment dispute. I replied "fine, but perhaps you should have put in your listing that international bidders and money orders aren't accepted - it would have made a difference on whether I'd bid or not" Within ten days, the listing said "payment received". Yet, they still opened a non-payment dispute. I messaged them several times asking that they close it, with no response. Finally, I said "please close this dispute, I'm contacting Ebay support and I'm not happy about this."

I received a huge email from the seller (who reportedly had over 27,000 happy transactions) full of personal insults questioning my morals, my upbringing, and capitalized comments about my late payment even though it was clearly on the listing that it had been received...yadda, yadda. It took two more weeks to receive the item. I left a neutral feedback.

The seller, you guessed it, left me a negative. Even though they'd received money on time.

I'll say that something needed to change and I think it is the right direction. I've been ripped off many times by supposedly good sellers who(97% positive or higher) I could not leave negative feedback for fear of retaliation. Yup there will always be the bad sellers and bad buyers, but Ebay's strategy recently favored the seller too much and Ebay failed to realize that without buyers they are nothing. Maybe they're swinging the pendulum too far back in one direction, but it had to happen. Without buyers noone makes money.

edit: I don't want people to think that I believe this is positive or pro-ebay.. I hate ebay and paypal both and buy only as a last resort through a good protected credit card dedicated to the purpose. Just trying to provide a different viewpoint from an MBA student.

Edit- This was supposed to be agreeing with Wowak on the "sucks" side of things, not agreeing with ignorant. Not used to the new quote function yet :whatthe:

I'm with you... the fall of eBay really got rolling when they annexed PayPal and became the holders of all the cards... There is no longer ANY small seller protection on eBay, period.

My last purchase off ebay was more than two years ago, my last sale more than 4... and no plans to make any ever again.

I've bought and sold a lot of stuff on eBay, including buying 2 cars and selling a bunch of stuff I didn't need anymore over the past 10 years. Their recent commie dribble banning selling even a spring for a gun was just too much. Now they're going to wipe out my 10 year 100% feedback rating? I'm looking for another auction site. Gunbroker.com is good for firearms related stuff but I'm pretty well fixed there. What site is good for car and computer stuff?

I cruise ebay but it does seem to be a confrontational way to do business. Hell, the ad is maybe a paragraph while the conditions of sale end up being a 4 page document you have to sign before you even bid.

The rules and arbitration process are byzantine to say the least.

I liked it when one of the Ebay big whigs said "It's like a yard sale out there!" while talking about his company. HEY! That's what most people liked about it! Cheap prices, a wide array of stuff, an informal and friendly sale process.

Thanks for the tip on ecrater.

The system needed to be looked into, there's no doubt there. The problem is the new system protects the giant high-volume sellers (the ones that pulled those kind of stunts) and unduly punishes small sellers (who generally are very good).

This Quote: "It also turned into a place where the seller would not leave feedback until the buyer left feedback so they could see what feedback was left and retaliate in kind if it were negative. This is BS to me as once I pay I feel that I have fufilled my end of the bargin."

Makes me mad. Let me reiterate that the Feedback system was (and is) completely VOLUNTARY. Even as a small-peanuts seller I've encountered buyers who justified no positive feedback (taking up to 90 days to pay, trying to get Priority Shipping with Tracking and Insurance for the Parcel Post price, trying to do PayPal chargebacks, etc, etc) and it was my choice to ignore leaving feedback. And sometimes the person is just plane rude or starts "requesting" feedback (which is against ebay policy). Again, it is VOLUNTARY.

I am primarily a buyer on ebay (75% buy/25% sell) but this program is ludicrous! All of my favorite sellers with whom I've had multiple transactions are packing up and leaving, because they aren't "PowerSellers" and now have NO protection. Frankly, I agree with them. Why should the giant offshore headlight company that shafted me on my SHO's headlights get preferential treatment when they were the sellers I actually had problems with (no item in 30 days even though I paid for 2 day shipping, retaliatory negative feedback, NPB filed after PayPal refunded my money)? This is a STUPID plan.

feedback should have some sort of double blind system so its not a mexican standoff with retaliation and people trying to extort a positive review out of the buyer/seller.

GlennS wrote: feedback should have some sort of double blind system so its not a mexican standoff with retaliation and people trying to extort a positive review out of the buyer/seller.

Agreed.

Bought a piece for my car several months back. It did not arrive for almost 2 months because the seller shipped it to the wrong address. I paid within hours of the auction closing.

The seller waited to leave feedback until I left feedback for him. Of course, the feedback he left was the same rating I gave him despite all the issues I had.

as i recall... in the early days of ebay you could post a response when somone left you feedback (that was seen under your feedback)... if somone bitched you could post an explination... of corse that was back int he late 90's when it was REAL new... i loved it back then... it realy was like a yardsale online.

I will also add... it's this kind of thing that makes forum classifieds SO important... the only time i've ever sold things on ebay was when i thought it was worth my time... large ticket items that i couldn't get comperable $$$ localy for... horns, guitars, a rare PSX game (got $306 for a freakin dragon ball z game about 9 years ago haha), and other things like that...

believe it or not.. I am a power seller on ebay. I do not put things up often, but when I do, I put a lot up at once.

Personally. I think the whole system is ludicris. I have had a number of bad buyers over the years and have given bad feedback (I note the time of when the auction was over and usually post the bad feedback RIGHT before the time to leave feedback is over.. keeps me from being a hostage) but to no longer have that "protection" is stupid.. not that it was really any sort of protection. It is almost rare to find a buyer with less than 98%

Dang...I was going to actually take advantage of this new policy but I can't. I bought something a couple months ago that was not as described, but the seller never left me feedback and I didn't want to risk my perfect feedback rating on one item. I got it at a great price, but the story slowly changed until money actually changed hands and I got the REAL truth. I was pissed, but I already had the item, didn't have the cash, and all I had to gain out of giving them a negative rating was getting my own negative rating.

Anyway, I went to leave feedback today and ebay won't let me. It recognizes that I never left feedback, but when I click the "leave feedback" links it just says

Item XXXXX was not found because: This item number does not exist Or you have already left feedback.

Damn! I agree with what was said above, fees and aggressive controls have been killing ebay for a while. Disputes always suck, both with ebay and paypal, and I got VERY pissed when I couldn't say what kind of car a catalytic converter came from even when it had no pipes left on it, was clearly listed as scrap metal, and sold in the scrap metal category. No more paypal for me, craigslist is where it's at. Might not be quite as large of a national audience, but what it lacks in audience it makes up for in ease (local buyers) and price (free).

Bryce

I parted out a 1968 Datsun 2000 Roadster and a 1971 Datsun 240Z. I also sold a bunch of my junk to raise some money.

My wife sold her Creative Memories and Longaberger baskets last fall to raise money so Christmas would be cash paid.

I think we are done with ebay. I think I have $5.25 in my paypal account right now.

I parted out a 1968 Datsun 2000 Roadster and a 1971 Datsun 240Z. I also sold a bunch of my junk to raise some money.

My wife sold her Creative Memories and Longaberger baskets last fall to raise money so Christmas would be cash paid.

I think we are done with ebay. I think I have $5.25 in my paypal account right now.

when I finally get my new Gerber, I have a seller who is getting bad feedback. Bought it on ebay three weeks ago. I have been sending him email once a week as in inquiry as to when it might have been shipped.. heard nothing back from him.

Today I get a package from him.. it's a DVD of Battlestar Galactica: Razor. Nice movie, I enjoyed, but I already own it and I need my Gerber for work. I wrote him some more email saying I was sending it back tomorrow.. still no word from him

Somebody needs to learn how to communicate