The Oceangate story is so much worse than we thought

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to alfadriver :

People in general and it seems Americans in particular have a long history of fascination and idolization of rich people and how they spend their money.  This extends to how they occasionally die as well.

I mean... we even had a TV show about the former subject that ran for 11 seasons in the 80s/90s. 

When I was in high school, we had an entire class devoted to Media Myth, and how modern celebrities are our version of, say, the ancient Greeks going on about Agamemnon or Persephone.

It was really interesting and helped put a perspective on things.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

The US also lacks a formal royal family class of which to gossip about. 

TIL that the submersible was stored outside and had been struck by lightning at one point.

And they knew about it, and said "*shrug emoji* what bad could happen if you zapped a carbon fiber composite with lightning?"

(given that they thought a material that is weak in compression would be a good idea for a submersible, in the first place, this is not really that surprising)

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

(given that they thought a material that is weak in compression would be a good idea for a submersible, in the first place, this is not really that surprising)

Apparently the carbon-fiber-with-titanium-end-caps design was based on a US Navy submersible called AUSS.  That one was unmanned; but it had a pressure hull for bouyancy, went deeper than the OceanGate one did, and they did over a hundred successful dives in the 90s before retiring it.  So perhaps the core idea isn't a crazy as everyone makes it out to be now?

johndej said:

Bunch of videos going around of the wreckage found on the seafloor. Note structural ratchet strap survived, must have plucked it and said, "she's not going anywhere" before they decended.

More justification on why I don't need to improve at welding, just add more ratchet straps!

:)

Over the years I have made a growing list of ways not to die:

2 miles deep at the bottom of the ocean is now top of the list just above freezing on top of Mt Everest.

If I had known back in the day about shark attacks as I know now, I would have never ever set foot in the ocean or bought that mail order scuba diving gear which included a 12" Buck shark knife and the self teaching book, "Scuba Diving For Dummies" back in the early 70s.

Following along with the not getting eaten way to die, I was a little lax when I took my family to Glacier National Park about 7 years ago. Luckily, we didn't get eaten by a grizzly but we did see three of them. I worried about it the whole time though.

I once knew a sky diving instructor who offered me a free sky diving jump - declined that one.

I also knew an airplane stunt pilot who offered me a free ride - declined that one also. 

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

I wouldn't worry about the sharks too much. Lightning is much more dangerous. 

...the chances of getting eaten by a shark are 1 in 264 million. (The chances of simply being attacked by one are higher: 1 in 5 million.) The chances of being struck by lightning are about 1 in a million...

In reply to Toyman! :

I already jumped that shark. We were water skiing in a small (fresh water) bay with calm totally overcast weather. I had just finished skiing and had gotten into the boat and was throwing out the rope to my friend who was already in the water ready to go next. Suddenly my sister exclaimed, "All of your hair is standing on end!" I looked at my arms and all of the hair was sticking straight out as was my wet long head of hair and also my sister's and BIL's.

I could feel the charge building up throughout my body and with a bloody scream dove into the water swimming towards the bottom, the last thing I saw was my glasses floating down in front of me. After I couldn't hold my breath anymore I finally resurfaced, the static charge was gone and after I got back in the boat, I said that I ment to jump into the water to save everybody's life and we went back to the dock and put the boat away.

Actually, I was only concerned with my own life. 

Can't remember if any of these videos have been linked. Here is video of two low pressure vacuum implosion tests and the last is a high pressure test chamber implosion test.

High pressure implosion test occurs at 10:21 minutes above.

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

I collapsed a 10,000 gallon tank like that once. Vents are really important!

Back when I was a teen we used to drive up to La Riviere, Manitoba, Canada to ski at a resort in the Pembina Valley. There where these public spherical trash bins called Orbits everywhere along the highways and I always wanted to steal one and build a wet sub after watching James Bond Thunderball and 2001 a Space Odyssey. I would have placed a water proof box under the orb to house lead acid batteries and use the front of the box to provide added foot room space and use two electric trolling motors sticking out of the sides of the orb for propulsion and steering. Also a round plexiglass window hatch.

I could never figure out how to sneak one across the boarder though. Good thing because I would have been the first OrbitGate from Lake Sakakawea in 180 feet of water. 

Yahoo.com: Titan submersible's scientific director says the sub malfunctioned just prior to the Titanic dive

I keep asking myself How does this keep getting worse?  And yet it does. 

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

Somehow that story managed to talk about everything EXCEPT the actual malfunction.

Duke said:

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

Somehow that story managed to talk about everything EXCEPT the actual malfunction.

 

Its possible that they don't know what the malfunction was.

I keep asking myself, how do people still consider this event relevant today?

In reply to Duke :

I posted that mostly for the two photos. Please note the almost complete absence of any pieces of the carbon fiber pressure hull tube on the seafloor around the metal components. It must have almost pulverized into dust. Isn't a carbon fiber driveshaft's weakest spot where it attaches to the metal ends?

Edit: ...And I can't find a carbon fiber driveshaft test-to-failure video.

1988RedT2 said:

I keep asking myself, how do people still consider this event relevant today?

How is it not?  At a bare minimum it shows what not to do, and how not to build a carbon fiber submersible. 

These are valuable lessons.

Every safety rule and regulation is written in blood.  This is just the most high profile one we've had recently 

Mr_Asa said:

Every safety rule and regulation is written in blood.

That right there, while not funny to most, is definitely Say What worthy.

From the BBC:

In addition, they laid out serious problems experienced by the submersible on expeditions carried out before the disaster. In 2021 and 2022, over the course of 13 dives to the Titanic, it had 118 equipment issues. 

These included the front dome falling off when it was brought out of the sea, its thrusters failing at 3,500m down and, on one dive, its batteries dying and leaving passengers stuck inside for 27 hours.

 

....the dome falling off.

This whole story is an example of why it's a good idea to listen to experts and to pay attention to testing evidence instead of just claiming you know better and sticking your head in the sand. Calling yourself a brave pioneer won't keep you from building a deathtrap. The warning signs were there and were SO clear, but the Big Idea Man just couldn't bear to hear what he was being told.

Mr_Asa said:

1988RedT2 said:

I keep asking myself, how do people still consider this event relevant today?

How is it not?  At a bare minimum it shows what not to do, and how not to build a carbon fiber submersible. 

These are valuable lessons.

Every safety rule and regulation is written in blood.  This is just the most high profile one we've had recently 

So how much money should we spend to protect wealthy adventurers from themselves?  How many "discoveries" will we miss out on because of over-regulation and bureaucratic obstacles to exploration?  Lots of people die attempting to summit Everest.  What's the solution?  Build a heated, pressurized elevator to the top and sell tickets?

Pretty sure we're miles apart on this issue.  I feel that we need far fewer "rules and regulations" and far more well-educated people with a dollop of common sense.

1988RedT2 said:

Mr_Asa said:

1988RedT2 said:

I keep asking myself, how do people still consider this event relevant today?

How is it not?  At a bare minimum it shows what not to do, and how not to build a carbon fiber submersible. 

These are valuable lessons.

Every safety rule and regulation is written in blood.  This is just the most high profile one we've had recently 

So how much money should we spend to protect wealthy adventurers from themselves?  How many "discoveries" will we miss out on because of over-regulation and bureaucratic obstacles to exploration?  Lots of people die attempting to summit Everest.  What's the solution?  Build a heated, pressurized elevator to the top and sell tickets?

Pretty sure we're miles apart on this issue.  I feel that we need far fewer "rules and regulations" and far more well-educated people with a dollop of common sense.

Tell ya what, I'll tell you how we get rules and regulations put in place.

You tell me how we get more people with common sense.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I was wondering if those Space X tourons where tied off on their extra vehicular stunt or if they had messed up a little and lost their grip they would just floated off into oblivion. Just like Oceangate, one death or lost crew will be the death of space tourism. I can't even start to figure out those Everest morons. I wonder why they aren't flocking to Antarctica to walk to the South Pole.

Edit: They need a solar powered wood chipper on top of Everest and to reach the summit, instead of stepping over the frozen dead bodies, they have to chip-up a fallen comrade.

Mr_Asa said:

1988RedT2 said:

Mr_Asa said:

1988RedT2 said:

I keep asking myself, how do people still consider this event relevant today?

How is it not?  At a bare minimum it shows what not to do, and how not to build a carbon fiber submersible. 

These are valuable lessons.

Every safety rule and regulation is written in blood.  This is just the most high profile one we've had recently 

So how much money should we spend to protect wealthy adventurers from themselves?  How many "discoveries" will we miss out on because of over-regulation and bureaucratic obstacles to exploration?  Lots of people die attempting to summit Everest.  What's the solution?  Build a heated, pressurized elevator to the top and sell tickets?

Pretty sure we're miles apart on this issue.  I feel that we need far fewer "rules and regulations" and far more well-educated people with a dollop of common sense.

Tell ya what, I'll tell you how we get rules and regulations put in place.

You tell me how we get more people with common sense.

How?  I'll tell ya how.  Remove all the safety rules and regulations.  Darwin will take care of it!

1988RedT2 said:

I keep asking myself, how do people still consider this event relevant today?

Because for some people, it's an interesting topic, for any one of a variety of reasons:

• They are interested in undersea exploration
   
• They are interested in engineering and engineering failures
   
• They are interested in seeing followup information and closure on the story
   
• They are interested in stories where rich, arrogant people are taken down by their own hubris
   
• They are interested in some other topic I didn't think of in 15 seconds of thinking about it

Easy enough to bypass it if you don't think it's relevant.