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SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/12/13 12:01 p.m.

I'm just gonna leave this here without comment. You guys will have plenty enough to say...

Gary North said: The Story of Two Buses... Picture this. You're driving down the highway with your nine-year-old son. You're in the middle lane. On your right, one behind the other, are two buses. The bus in front is painted white. The bus behind is painted yellow. The bus in front has its windows painted over. The bus behind does not. Your son asks you a question. "What are those two buses, Daddy?" You tell him that they are two very different kinds of buses. "How are they different?" he asks. You explain that on the first bus are prisoners who are being taken to jail. On the second bus are students who are being taken to school. "But how is that different?" your son asks. That's what I'm asking, too. You tell your son that the men on the first bus are required to get on that bus. Then your son asks you if the students on the yellow bus have a choice in the matter. You think about it. Neither group has any choice in the matter. Somebody tells the members of both groups that they must get on that bus and stay on that bus until the bus comes to its destination. Your son says he doesn't understand. So, you try to make it clear to him. You tell that the people on the white bus have committed crimes. They are bad people. They are being taken to jail. The people on the yellow bus are good people. They are being taken to school. Your son asks: "Why do they make the good people go on the bus?" That's what I'm asking, too. Remember, you're talking to a nine-year-old. Nine-year-olds are not very sophisticated. They need clear answers. So, you had better be prepared to provide clear answers. You tell your son that the good people on the yellow bus are being taken to school for their own good. Your son asks if the people on the white bus are being taken to jail, but not for their own good. No, you tell him. They are being taken to jail for their own good, too. Your son asks, "Then what's the difference?" The difference is, you explain to your son, that the people on the white bus are very bad and society intends to make them better. Your son asks: "Is society taking the people on the yellow bus to school in order to make them worse?" No, you tell him. Society is taking them to school in order to make them better people, too. "Then what's the difference?" The difference is, you explain to your son, the people on the white bus are dangerous people. In order to make society safer, society puts them in jail. The people on the yellow bus are not dangerous. "Then why are they forced to go to a place where they don't want to go?" your son asks. "Because it's good for them," you answer. "But isn't that why the people on the white bus are being taken to jail?" he asks. You are getting frustrated. You tell your son that they're required to get on the bus because when they are young they don't know that it is a good thing for them to go to school. They don't want to go to school. But they're supposed to go to school. Your son replies that this sounds just like the people in the white bus. But they're supposed to go to jail, you tell him. It's for their own good. They're going to be better people if they go to jail. Isn't that right? Isn't the whole idea of sending people to jail to rehabilitate them? Aren't they supposed to become better people in jail? I mean, if they aren't going to become better people, why not just sell them into slavery and use the money to pay restitution to their victims? Why build jails? Why paint buses white? You tell your son that the bad people have to go to jail in order to keep them off the streets. The problem is, this is one of the reasons why society requires students to go to school. People want keep the kids off the streets. They want to make certain that somebody in authority is in a position to tell the children what to do. They don't trust the children to make their own decisions. They also don't trust the criminals to make their own decisions. This is more complicated than you thought. But you keep trying. You explain to your son that bad people must be kept from doing more bad things. Your son asks: "What are the bad things that kids do?" The light comes on. You tell your son that the children are dangerous to themselves, but the prisoners are dangerous to everybody else. The children may hurt themselves, but the prisoners may hurt other people. But your son wants to know why it is that the children must be taken to a school in order to keep them from hurting themselves, when they can stay home and not hurt themselves. You tell your son that it's because people are not able to stay home with their children. Your son wants to know why not. You explain that both parents have to work to make enough money to live a good life. This means that somebody has to take care of their children. Your son wants to know why parents don't hire somebody to come into their home and take care of the children. Why don't they hire a teacher to take care of them? You explain that it is cheaper to hire one teacher to look after lots of students. Your son wants to know why it's cheaper to send children to school when it costs money to build schools, buy buses, hire drivers, and pay for gasoline. This is a smart kid. You explain that the people who have children force people who do not have children to pay for the schools. Your son asks if this is the same thing is stealing. "Isn't that what the people on the white bus did?" No, you explain, it's not stealing. Your son asks, "How is it different?" Now you have a problem. You have to explain the difference between taking money from someone to benefit yourself as a private citizen, which is what a criminal does, and taking money from someone to benefit yourself as a voter. This is not so easy to explain. You explain to your son that when you vote to take money away from someone so that you can educate your child, this is different from sticking a gun into somebody's stomach and telling him that he has to turn over his money to you. Your son that asks if it would be all right to stick a gun in somebody's stomach if you intended to use the money to educate your child. No, you explain, it's not the same. When you tell someone that he has to educate your child in a school run by the government it's legal. When you tell somebody that he has to educate your child in a private school, where parents pay directly to hire teachers, it's illegal. Your son then asks you if it's all right to take money from other people just so long as you hand over to the government the money to do the things that you want the government to do. You explain that this is correct. "But what if other people don't think that the government ought to be doing these things?" You explain that people don't have the right to tell the government not to do these things unless they can get more than half of the voters to tell the government to stop doing them. Your son sees the logic of this. He asks you: "Are the people in the white bus being taken to jail because there were not enough of them to win the election?" You know this can't be right, but it's hard to say why it's wrong. Here is where you are so far. Society makes the prisoners go to jail. It sees these prisoners as dangerous. It wants to teach them to obey. Society makes children go to school. It sees these children as dangerous to themselves. It wants to teach them to obey. If it can teach both groups how to obey, society expects the world to improve. Society therefore uses tax money to pay for the operation of jails and schools. This includes paying for buses. But there is a difference. Prison buses are white. School buses are yellow. There must be more to it than this. So, you keep trying. Schools are run by the government to teach children how to make a living. Jails are run by the government to teach people how to stop stealing. Here is a major difference. "Do they teach prisoners how to make a good living?" your son asks. No, you tell him. The prison teaches them to obey. He asks: "Then why will they stop stealing when they get out of prison, if they don't know how to make a good living." Because, you explain, they will be afraid to do bad things any more. Your son asks if people in prison learn how to do bad things in prison. You admit that they do. "So," he asks, "we send people to prison and school so that they will learn how to make a good living? Only the difference is, the government pays for a place where bad people teach other bad people how to steal without getting caught, but in school, the government pays good people to teach children how to be good citizens and vote. So, the bad people learn how to steal from the good people without voting, and the good people learn how to steal from each other by voting. Is that how it works?" That's how it works. Both systems use buses to take the students to school. But the colors are different. In prison, prisoners sell illegal drugs. Students do the same in school. In prison, the food is terrible. It's not very good in school — possibly prepared by the same food service company. In prison, there are constant inspections. Guards keep taking roll to make sure everyone is present and accounted for. Teachers do the same in school. In prison, you aren't allowed to leave without permission. The same is true in school. In prison, bullies run the show. In school, they do, too. But there is a difference. Prison buses are white. School buses are yellow. This is too extreme. The systems are different. Criminals are convicted in a court of law before they are sent to jail. Students, in contrast, are innocent. Some prisoners can get parole. The average term in prison for murder is under ten years. Students are put into the school system for twelve years. There is no parole. Be thankful you are not in one of those buses. Either color.
mtn
mtn PowerDork
2/12/13 12:10 p.m.

Interesting.

On a semi-related note, I was approached at a job fair a couple of years ago, and asked by someone in the Department of Corrections if I would be interested in teaching Math at a prison. At the time I was not, but now I am curious about it. When I get home from work, I think I'll search for openings to see if there are any night or weekend positions teaching. I think I might enjoy it, and it certainly would be interesting, at least for a year or so.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/12/13 12:14 p.m.

So, you are saying you would be perfectly capable of being the jailer for either population, right?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
2/12/13 12:15 p.m.

That was exhausting. Something tells me there was no 9yr old. Or... maybe he wrote the story.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH UltimaDork
2/12/13 12:19 p.m.

Would it be wrong to just tell the 9-year old the truth in this situation?

"Well ya see Billy, the prisoners are supposed to be made better in jail, but society really just wants to punish them and helping them is just an excuse. Some places in Europe have prisons that are really intended for rehabilitation. School, on the other hand, really does help you, or that's the honest intent at least."

mtn
mtn PowerDork
2/12/13 12:19 p.m.
SVreX wrote: So, you are saying you would be perfectly capable of being the jailer for either population, right?

(I realize this is in jest)

Not necessarily--I'm not entirely sure I could be a teacher for anything K-12. Or rather, I'm not sure I'd want to do it.

Being a teacher in a prison would be different. I wouldn't be a jailer in either sense, because the students would be there of their own accord, and the guards would be the jailers in the traditional sense.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve UltimaDork
2/12/13 12:39 p.m.

I'm pretty sure you have the right to send your kid to a private school or home school them. You cannot choose home imprisonment or choose to be incarcerated in a private facility.

More food for thought, Air Force Crew member and employees of the Airlines often get driven around on similar buses. What do you tell the 9-year old about that????

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH UltimaDork
2/12/13 12:43 p.m.
pinchvalve wrote: More food for thought, Air Force Crew member and employees of the Airlines often get driven around on similar buses. What do you tell the 9-year old about that????

That one's easy. In both cases those buses are used for protection, either to protect the people inside from the people outside, or the other way around

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltraDork
2/12/13 12:46 p.m.

Too PC for me. "The kids in the yellow bus are going to school to learn how to do useful things, so we don't have to put them in the white bus, where the occupants have proven themselves to be useless, and we can't shoot them anymore."

Duke
Duke PowerDork
2/12/13 1:28 p.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: That was exhausting.

And stupid. That was the essay equivalent of the idiot who sticks a Q-tip into his brain or throws boiling spaghetti all over his kitchen in a TV product ad.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg UltimaDork
2/12/13 1:36 p.m.
Streetwiseguy wrote: Too PC for me. "The kids in the yellow bus are going to school to learn how to do useful things, so we don't have to put them in the white bus, where the occupants have proven themselves to be useless, and we can't shoot them anymore."
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HappyAndy
HappyAndy Dork
2/12/13 1:38 p.m.

Interesting. I'm going to forward this to my wife, who is at this very moment driving a yellow bus loaded with kids destined to some day ride rhe white bus.

RealMiniDriver
RealMiniDriver SuperDork
2/12/13 2:27 p.m.
aussiesmg wrote:
Streetwiseguy wrote: Too PC for me. "The kids in the yellow bus are going to school to learn how to do useful things, so we don't have to put them in the white bus, where the occupants have proven themselves to be useless, and we can't shoot them anymore."
+ 1

+2

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UberDork
2/12/13 2:33 p.m.

Sorry if I didn't read the whole thing......but I throw this back to kids all the time. I always ask my daughter how child "prison" went today?

school = prison
Principal = Warden
teachers = guards
12 year sentence = X year sentence - just try leaving in the 6th grade
playground time = outside yard time
school cafeteria = food cafeteria
gym uniform = prison uniform
and so on and on I go......

yamaha
yamaha SuperDork
2/12/13 2:38 p.m.
mtn wrote: Not necessarily--I'm not entirely sure I could be a teacher for anything K-12. Or rather, I'm not sure I'd want to do it. Being a teacher in a prison would be different. I wouldn't be a jailer in either sense, because the students would be there of their own accord, and the guards would be the jailers in the traditional sense.

I will tell you from experience, in the prison enviroment, for every one inmate that legitimately wants to learn/better themselves, there are NINE more, that are there for just a time cut, hang out with their cronies, get out of their cell/building, or want the chance to be able to traffic stuff amoungst themselves or staff.

Chances are, they'll try to get you to bring stuff in to them, don't.....I'd throw the Bob Costas out of the class permanately if they asked that

BoostedBrandon
BoostedBrandon Dork
2/12/13 3:01 p.m.

I went cross eyed three times trying to read that.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron PowerDork
2/12/13 3:09 p.m.

Way too long to try to make a tired, invalid point.

The prisoners go to jail where they do not get to leave those walls. At the end of the day, the kids go home. They spend time with their families. They can play outside with their friends. They can wander and explore. They get three lazy months to play. They can choose how they spend their time. When their term is over, the kids who went to school will have options and choices to decide how they want to live their lives. The prisoners will not be prepared to integrate with the wider world and will be constantly watched and observed by people telling them what they can and can't do.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/12/13 5:01 p.m.
pinchvalve wrote: I'm pretty sure you have the right to send your kid to a private school or home school them.

Sort of. We home school...

In the context of the article, home schooling is still compulsory. Attendance records are required (yes, we take attendance records and forward them to the superintendent of schools, who still has the responsibility to enforce compulsory education laws, regardless of where they are schooled). Most states require particular classes. And the parents still get to pay their school taxes, whether or not they ever get to utilize the schools.

So, effectively the perspective still stands.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin HalfDork
2/12/13 5:18 p.m.

"What are those two buses, Daddy?"

"Sorry kiddo, I wasn't looking"

joey48442
joey48442 UberDork
2/12/13 6:50 p.m.

Or, "son! Your a turd! I did a terrible job raising you...

Joey

wlkelley3
wlkelley3 SuperDork
2/15/13 9:41 p.m.

The students on the second bus get to ride that same bus home later that day. The prisoners on the first bus will have to wait years to ride the bus home.

bastomatic
bastomatic SuperDork
2/15/13 9:58 p.m.

Reads to me like anti-public school propaganda. Poorly written, at that.

Truth is, home-schooling is as much or more a prison as public school. Kids get no choice in any of the matters - parents are wardens too in their own way.

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
2/16/13 8:28 a.m.
bastomatic wrote: Reads to me like anti-public school propaganda. Poorly written, at that. Truth is, home-schooling is as much or more a prison as public school. Kids get no choice in any of the matters - parents are wardens too in their own way.

And the kids can't leave and "go home" at the end of the day

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/16/13 4:00 p.m.
bastomatic wrote: Reads to me like anti-public school propaganda. Poorly written, at that. Truth is, home-schooling is as much or more a prison as public school. Kids get no choice in any of the matters - parents are wardens too in their own way.

I agree.

As a home schooler, I have already said that.

I see no anti-public school bias whatsoever. The compulsory nature of schooling doesn't change if it is private or home schooling. The point is not about the colors of buses. It is about the nature of compulsory education.

alex
alex UltraDork
2/16/13 4:21 p.m.

So...what's the problem with teaching kids?

Some form of schooling is compulsory for the same reason murder is illegal: there has to be a law about it, otherwise stupid people won't do the right thing.

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