There's a major union riot in my town!

Javelin wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote:

Javelin wrote: In reply to Javelin: YouTube result: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFHBGGvuQhA

I still don't see 400 people rioting.

Uh, is that a serious comment? That's a video shot at the Union Hall, not the riot site...

Completely serious.

The original post was talking about a riot at the port which, depending on your news source, involved, hundreds, five hundred or a thousand people.

My original post was about wondering if anybody got video of the riot and posted it on youtube.

This is a video shot at the Union hall where three or four guys are shouting at a journalist and one is trying to convince the guy behind the camera that his given name is a slang term for a sex act. Not exactly the riot discussed in the original post.

Snowdoggie wrote:

Javelin wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote:

Javelin wrote: In reply to Javelin: YouTube result: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFHBGGvuQhA

I still don't see 400 people rioting.

Uh, is that a serious comment? That's a video shot at the Union Hall, not the riot site...

Completely serious. The original post was talking about a riot at the port which, depending on your news source, involved, hundreds, five hundred or a thousand people. My original post was about wondering if anybody got video of the riot and posted it on youtube. This is a video shot at the Union hall where three or four guys are shouting at a journalist and one is trying to convince the guy behind the camera that his given name is a slang term for a sex act. Not exactly the riot discussed in the original post.

Well I don't know what you are reading, but every single report released about this has clearly stated around 400 protesters. Not once have I seen any other number mentioned. I'd love to see your sources.

As for the dude in the video, he's now sitting in jail (as one of the 400): http://tdn.com/news/local/article_839ae21c-de40-11e0-84ef-001cc4c002e0.html

"A Kelso man was arrested Monday on suspicion of four felony charges in connection with last Thursday's vandalism of the EGT grain terminal at the Port of Longview, Cowlitz County Sheriff Mark Nelson announced Tuesday.

A Longview woman also was arrested and released Monday on suspicion of misdemeanor charges as part of a longshore union effort to block an incoming train outside the terminal last Wednesday, Nelson said.

More arrests are expected in the next few days, Nelson said.

Ronald Patrick Stavas, 45, of Kelso was arrested Monday night on suspicion of first-degree burglary, second-degree assault, intimidating a witness and sabotage, according to the sheriff's office. His bail was set at $50,000.

Stavas was identified as one of the hundreds of people who stormed the EGT terminal about 4:30 a.m. Sept. 8 and damaged a security shack, assaulted guards and spilled corn product from a mile-long train parked inside the terminal, according to the sheriff's office.

Stavas was identified by a witness at the terminal who later saw a video of him confronting a television news crew outside the longshore union hall on 14th Avenue in Longview, according to Nelson. In the video, which has gone viral online, a man is seen swearing profusely and threatening a Portland news crew in the parking lot of the union hall."

Javelin wrote: Well I don't know what you are reading, but every single report released about this has clearly stated around 400 protesters. Not once have I seen any other number mentioned. I'd love to see your sources.

Actually those were your sources.

The first article you posted from The Daily News Online said hundreds.

The third article you posted from the New York Times said 500 and up to 1,000 by the end of the day including those protesting by staying home.

Maybe 400 was the number arrested.

Snowdoggie wrote:

Javelin wrote: Well I don't know what you are reading, but every single report released about this has clearly stated around 400 protesters. Not once have I seen any other number mentioned. I'd love to see your sources.

Actually those were your sources. The first article you posted from The Daily News Online said hundreds. The third article you posted from the New York Times said 500 and up to 1,000 by the end of the day including those protesting by staying home. Maybe 400 was the number arrested.

First source (TDN, the actual source): http://tdn.com/news/local/article_e98046a8-da30-11e0-bd16-001cc4c002e0.html: "Hundreds of longshoremen and their supporters stormed the EGT grain terminal... Police estimated 400 people were involved."

Second source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904836104576556971275750328.html "...where 300 protesters massed. Police in riot gear confronted them..."

Third source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/09/business/union-dispute-near-seattle-turns-violent-and-idles-ports.html?_r=1 "About 500 longshoremen stormed the new $200 million terminal in Longview before sunrise Thursday..." The 1000 number were totally separate ports in Seattle and Tacoma, "Later in the day, more than 1,000 other longshoremen shut down the ports of Seattle and Tacoma by not coming to work."

There's no video of the actual violent protest, though there is one of an SUV plowing through the idiots from a few weeks ago when they jumped in front of it and started hitting it with signs. (The ultra-ironic part is the person who posted the video claims that the protest was non-violent yet all of the picketers clearly struck at cars with their signs and yelled obscenities.) The blockers were arrested and the SUV driver was not charged.

TDN does have 2 videos of the train finally pulling in on the riot day showing around a dozen members who were in custody of law enforcement. You can also see about a dozen officers.

The only way there's video of the riot is if the rioters themselves took it, though they may be stupid enough to post it eventually. There are some pictures though:

http://www.koinlocal6.com/Photo.aspx?content_id=c047c078-bdfc-4465-b05c-6f436185d948

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Longshoremen-storm-Longview-port-hold-security/eMBHwPy9ZUSwXG9DYYXZSA.cspx

And finally, some extremely good details: http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/sep/09/update-cowlitz-county-sheriff-friday-posts-bulleti/

Is there anybody left who -likes- current unions?

I don't mean the practice of union, or the idea of unions. thats a seperate issue.

Are there any current unions left that aren't generally despised other than police and fire? (and even then?)

So the range is 300 to 500 and possibly more by the end of the day?

How many were actually arrested?

madmallard wrote: Is there anybody left who -likes- current unions? I don't mean the practice of union, or the idea of unions. thats a seperate issue. Are there any current unions left that aren't generally despised other than police and fire? (and even then?)

My area has teachers unions, and while the occasional strike is a pain, at the end of the day, I don't mind the teachers getting slightly better wages/benefits, as most of the ones in my district were pretty darn good and deserved it. They also aren't as Uniony when it comes to protecting sub-par workers.

Snowdoggie wrote: So the range is 300 to 500 and possibly more by the end of the day? How many were actually arrested?

Locally reported by Sheriff as approximately 400. They didn't take attendance. I dunno why you are so hung up on the exact number, it was a riot. I'm sure the 48 year old rent-a-cop was counting heads as they drug him from his car and detained him.

They arrested around a dozen on site and have made 2 arrests since that they have bothered to release info about, one of which was Mr. Happy from the first YouTube video.

oldsaw wrote:

Type Q wrote: In all the seemingly well funded quasi-legal anti-union e36 M3 that happened in Wisconsin, I remember hearing at least one anti-union group was having online discussions about posing as picketing state employees to try to start violence to discredit state workers. I find myself wondering if the dude with the baseball bat is really a longshoreman or some hothead "supporter" looking for a fight.

Do you find yourself "wondering" about pics of inflammatory placards at Tea Party rallies, too? Just askin'..........

As a matter of fact I am skeptical of the coverage of the tea party as well. I know the most extreme inflamitory words and behavior will get all the attention. That doesn't the frustration of the people involved any less real. I get angry when my concerns and ideas are summarily dismissed because I'm a "California Nutcase" or any of a dozen other labels you can pin on me. So even though I may not agree with Tea partiers, I am trying listen and understand.

Snowdoggie wrote: So the range is 300 to 500 and possibly more by the end of the day? How many were actually arrested?

Is there a point behind this inquisition Snowdoggie?

Type Q wrote: I get angry when my concerns and ideas are summarily dismissed because I'm a "California Nutcase" or any of a dozen other labels you can pin on me. So even though I may not agree with Tea partiers, I am trying listen and understand.

No one labeled you as a "California Nutcase" except perhaps, yourself. You can assign any of the other dozen possible labels as you see fit. The point is that you found it worthy to focus on a single entity.

One could defer from commenting altogether or, at least, acknowledge that fraud and subterfuge are universal tactics.

madmallard wrote: Is there anybody left who -likes- current unions? I don't mean the practice of union, or the idea of unions. thats a seperate issue. Are there any current unions left that aren't generally despised other than police and fire? (and even then?)

I like my union,but many may not. Union Proud IBEW!!!!!

oldsaw wrote:

Type Q wrote: I get angry when my concerns and ideas are summarily dismissed because I'm a "California Nutcase" or any of a dozen other labels you can pin on me. So even though I may not agree with Tea partiers, I am trying listen and understand.

No one labeled you as a "California Nutcase" except perhaps, yourself. You can assign any of the other dozen possible labels as you see fit. The point is that you found it worthy to focus on a single entity. One could defer from commenting altogether or, at least, acknowledge that fraud and subterfuge are universal tactics.

I think all sides to disagreements in our current political system have people/organizations that present limited pictures, ignore important facts, speak pejoratively, dismissively as well as disrespectfully about their opposition, try to scare their followers, poison attempts at meaningful exchange of ideas, and continually use other destructive tactics.

Is this what you mean by "fraud and subterfuge"? If so, then we share a common bond of frustration and disgust.

aussiesmg wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote: So the range is 300 to 500 and possibly more by the end of the day? How many were actually arrested?

Is there a point behind this inquisition Snowdoggie?

Yep. The fact that the numbers aren't clear. It's hard to count heads during a riot but arrest numbers are public record.

Snowdoggie wrote:

aussiesmg wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote: So the range is 300 to 500 and possibly more by the end of the day? How many were actually arrested?

Is there a point behind this inquisition Snowdoggie?

Yep. The fact that the numbers aren't clear. It's hard to count heads during a riot but arrest numbers are public record.

Yeah, but why does it matter? The point is shiny happy Union members and their actions, not the exact, precise number of said shiny happy people doing it.

Geez.

z31maniac wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote:

aussiesmg wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote: So the range is 300 to 500 and possibly more by the end of the day? How many were actually arrested?

Is there a point behind this inquisition Snowdoggie?

Yep. The fact that the numbers aren't clear. It's hard to count heads during a riot but arrest numbers are public record.

Yeah, but why does it matter? The point is shiny happy Union members and their actions, not the exact, precise number of said shiny happy people doing it. Geez.

A range of 300 to 500 and maybe more later in the day is hardly exact. It's sloppy reporting. It's the same damned thing they did with Tea Party rallies, the Million Man March and just about everything else.

It's not just the numbers. If they are loose with the numbers, what else are they loose with? Were all 300, 400 or 500 protesters actually causing damage, or were 50 or so protesters being shiny happy rioters and the other 200 or so standing there slack jawed because a rogue element decided to go break some stuff.

It would be interesting to see how many get arrested and out of those, how many actually get convicted and of what after all is said and done, but that story usually rarely makes it to the front page if it makes it into the paper at all.

This is why I hate the media.

Mazdax605 wrote: I like my union,but many may not. Union Proud IBEW!!!!!

Is this one of the unions that shuns anything over 40 hours a week for working?

poopshovel wrote:

slefain wrote: Nothing says "non violent protest" like a placard stapled to a baseball bat. Throw'em all in jail, let'em unionize the laundry center and license plates.

F$CK YEAH! Unions were helpful when mine workers were treated like slaves. Now they're great at paying "place tab 'a' in slot 'b'" workers doctors' salaries. How's that workin out detroit? Oh wait, they probably don't have internet there. INFRASTRUCTURE!!!

sweet jesus...poop is my hero.

My FIL is a union man...UAW to be exact...at a brewery? My father was UAW at General Electric yearsw ago when I was a child. In both cases, the man I know was a decent hard worker, who never received benefit 1 from the union. Both were forced...FORCED to turn in sub-standard work or to turn out less product than they were capable of to "maintain the status quo"...read: "Make sure Dopey McDrunkerson and His cousin Cletus Mouthbreather keep their jobs despite their crappy performance". My Father was let go from GE as fallout over good-union-striking-gone-bad, Thanks UAW, nice work. My FIL is forced to work in deplorable conditions because the UAW will not allow him to clean his own work area, that job has been contracted with a separate union who handles the housekeeping - so hes stuck working in filth while the union janitor polishes the bishop in the corner. Another pat on the back for the union. Both of them know people who slept, left the plant, drank, stole, gambled, destroyed plant property, destroyed other peoples property, etc etc etc while on the clock, and the union forced mgt to keep the dick employed. Super work Union, way to go.

What pieces of excrement. My HATRED for the unions runs deep. I think the rest of us need to riot AGAINST the unions for dicking up our country. I will bring the bats and staples, Poopshovel, you make the signs...

Snowdoggie wrote: A range of 300 to 500 and maybe more later in the day is hardly exact. It's sloppy reporting. It's the same damned thing they did with Tea Party rallies, the Million Man March and just about everything else. It's not just the numbers. If they are loose with the numbers, what else are they loose with? Were all 300, 400 or 500 protesters actually causing damage, or were 50 or so protesters being shiny happy rioters and the other 200 or so standing there slack jawed because a rogue element decided to go break some stuff. It would be interesting to see how many get arrested and out of those, how many actually get convicted and of what after all is said and done, but that story usually rarely makes it to the front page if it makes it into the paper at all. This is why I hate the media.

Well the of the 100 people who broke into the terminal in July all got arrested and the court is processing them 15 at a time:

http://tdn.com/news/local/article_b04e9366-de69-11e0-8445-001cc4c002e0.html

It just keeps getting better! Now Mr. YouTube has threatened a witness, the security guard he originally drug out of the car!

http://tdn.com/news/local/article_70f6af28-df3b-11e0-b4c6-001cc4c03286.html

Arrested again!

Oh, and for doubters concerned about outside rabble-rousers, one of the people arrested was the ILWU President himself: "Coffman said union members are frustrated at what they perceive as provocation by local police, specifically when law enforcement officers handcuffed and hauled away ILWU President Bob McEllrath during the Wednesday evening protest before letting him go.

Read more: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_839ae21c-de40-11e0-84ef-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1XyyQqdlP

I'm torn on Unions, although in principle I despise them.

We already see a huge lack of decent paying jobs for blue collar workers because of outsourcing and such, how much worse would it be without some Unions?

I'd bet most of us here that are railing against unions are middle class. Well middle class wages have been stagnated to the rate of inflation for the last 30 years. With real wages this year falling back in line with 1996!

I'm fortunate enough that what I do is very unlikely to be outsourced, there are few people who can do it and I earn a decent middle class wage, especially considering where I live in the country and my age......................but..........I just...........I don't know.

Javelin wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote: A range of 300 to 500 and maybe more later in the day is hardly exact. It's sloppy reporting. It's the same damned thing they did with Tea Party rallies, the Million Man March and just about everything else. It's not just the numbers. If they are loose with the numbers, what else are they loose with? Were all 300, 400 or 500 protesters actually causing damage, or were 50 or so protesters being shiny happy rioters and the other 200 or so standing there slack jawed because a rogue element decided to go break some stuff. It would be interesting to see how many get arrested and out of those, how many actually get convicted and of what after all is said and done, but that story usually rarely makes it to the front page if it makes it into the paper at all. This is why I hate the media.

Well the of the 100 people who broke into the terminal in July all got arrested and the court is processing them 15 at a time: http://tdn.com/news/local/article_b04e9366-de69-11e0-8445-001cc4c002e0.html

Maybe these guys are better than most of the press if they are following up on this. I'm not arguing that the union guys in this case aren't thugs but I have seen too many stories where the news covers the initial event to the point of sensationalism and then a few months later all charges are dropped, nobody wants to prosecute and a few witnesses are grumbling that it didn't actually go down the way they say it did in the paper.

I'm still interested in seeing what comes up on you tube about this as the story develops.

Unions,

too dumb to realize they're putting themselves out of work.

So what is it about Washington state and union unrest? It looks like the teachers are on strike too.

http://news.yahoo.com/wash-teachers-defy-orders-continue-strike-164053677.html