This is why people hate dealerships . . .

After months of vaguely threatening letters about imminent death and dismemberment, I finally took the (unnamed non-domestic vehicle) in for an airbag recall.  I dropped it off, took off in the courtesy car and waited.  Everyone here knows what was coming.  The call.  "Mr. Kazoospec, we've looked your car over (didn't ask you to, but OK), we've found the following:  There's a slight leak from the timing chain cover gasket.  There's a lot of labor (mistake here, he tells me it's 4 1/2 hours), so that would be $780.00.  You also need your transmission fluid replaced.  We can do that for $160.00.  You also need your throttle body cleaned. We can do that for $170.00."  So here's the deal, the timing chain cover gasket MAY be legit, I've seen an occasional drop or two of oil on the garage floor.  But I also know that's a $20 gasket, an oil change and $700+ in labor.  Unfortunately, I know what "shop rates" and "book time" mean.  That means IF your techs can't do it faster than the "book" calls for (which they likely can), that $156/hr for your shop rates.  I know (because I do child support hearings for a living) that you pay your techs $12/hr.  Yes, $12/hr.  And you make your health insurance so expensive that most opt out of it and either go uninsured, or sign up for Medicaid because their wages are so low.    You're going to pay that hard working, greasy 20 year old $54.00 in wages.  Profit so far: roughly $650.00

On to the transmission fluid change:  Also possibly legit.  But I know you're not putting "the good stuff" in unless you upcharge me, so let's be generous and say you've got $30 into the fluids, $1.00 into the lower gasket (IF you don't just reuse what's in there), and you're going to pay said 20 year old a few bucks for the 5 to 10 minutes it takes him to change out the fluids.  So lets be generous and say you're out $50 total.  Profit: $110.00  Profit so far: $760.00

And finally, on to the "throttle body cleaning".  First, there is exactly ZERO chance they actually took apart the intake trunk before "diagnosing" this issue.  And then, what are they going to do?  Assuming they do ANYTHING for this, they're going to dump some injector cleaner into the gas tank and spray out of MAF tube and throttle body with some MAF cleaner.  Total cost, with labor, $20?  Profit $150.00  Profit so far, a whopping $910.00

Now: I fully understand overhead, wages for people other than the techs, tools, supplies, etc, etc.  I also can tell they dumped a bunch of money into making their dealership look high-end and swank.  

So, is my math off, or were they about to make almost a grand off my "free" recall?

smile and say, "thank you, I'll take care of that, YOU fix the recall....."

Standard procedure really. If they are only paying their "technicians" $12/hour I wouldn't have them touch my car. Wages are low where I live, at least they are low for this state, but actual techs make about twice that and most of the lubies make more than $12.

Tell them to pound sand and just do the free stuff. Thats what most folks do around here even when the up-sell stuff is legit.

oldeskewltoy said:

smile and say, "thank you, I'll take care of that, YOU fix the recall....."

Actually, I smiled and said, "Thanks for the info, I'll run it by my mechanic."

What will actually happen:  I'll do the trans fluid myself whenever I get to it.  I'll ignore the "throttle body" crap except that maybe I'll dump a bottle of fuel system cleaner in the tank.  I'll price out the gasket with my mechanic and have it done (likely for less than half the dealership cost) if I decide it's going to bug me.  

Porsche dealer offered to change the spark plugs and coil packs on my 996 Turbo, with the parts I already have, for $1300.   That's pure labor cost.  I know I can do it in no more than 4 hours, which means an experienced tech can do it in far less. 

Yeah, I declined their offer...

You hate dealerships because they try to sell you repairs you admit are needed, maintenance that you likely need, and another maintenance item that may or may not be needed?  Based on your assumed numbers?  When I STARTED at a dealer 23-25 years ago I was making double that amount. 

Man, you must flip out when asked if you want fries with that. 

They are offering you a (needed) service. Why not thank them and go on about your day? Instead you have to insult the 'greasy' technician and condemn dealerships as a whole because you decided to continue to defer maintenance and repairs? The 'greasy' tech is telling his buddies about 'this cheap guy that doesn't care than his car leaks and his trans fluid is burned.'
Two sides of the same coin, both are likely incorrect and prick-ish.

When I was a service advisor for a large Oriental car manufacturer, we got spiffs (bonuses), usually in the form of gift cards, for up-selling stuff like that trans flush and throttle cleaning.  Spiffs were either direct from the service manager/dealer or product partner, ya know whatever product we were supposed to be pushing that month.  We were a Valvoline and BG products shop, so it was usually one of their additives or services that we got extra spiffs for selling. 

It's tough to get a lot of spiffs and have a conscience.  I legitimately tried  to up-sell products, but only things that the customer truly needed, or at least things a tech that I trusted convinced me to up-sell.  I consistently brought in the least money of all the advisors, but they kept me around because I brought the entire department's customer service index (CSI) up quite a bit, I still have my trophy from corporate,  those surveys you fill out are serious business.  I had my own little "harem" of customers (as the other service advisors called them) mostly middle aged women that would only use me as their service advisor.  They often brought me baked goods or preserves so it wasn't all bad.  

All service advisors aren't bad, but it's a lot harder to make the big bucks, and keep your bosses and techs happy if you aren't up-selling.

I've thankfully been away from that life for almost 6 years now.  I don't miss it at all.

Thank you for reminding me why I haven’t had my airbag done yet. Local Hxxxx dealer was known for being shaded AF. They came back with $1,200 in work on a shifter recall on things they didn’t check or our mechanic said was good. Not that it meant anything, but that incident went to to corporate. I’m replacing the air filters and sealing them with some tamper evident means before I go in. Thankfully they have been bought out by a slightly more reputable chain. 

In reply to DrBoost :

I think you misunderstood my reference to "greasy".  I'm talking about the real, hands dirty work that's being done at this dealership.  Those guys have my respect, not my contempt.  I'm not guessing about their pay. I KNOW what this dealership pays, because I've seen the techs paychecks.  My "contempt" (if you see it that way) isn't for them, it's for the incredible gap between what they are earning for the dealership and what's being paid back to them.  It's for the fact that their shop rate's astronomically high in comparison with their pay, which is ridiculously low.  It's for the fact that my mechanic can charge me a shop rate that is half the dealership price, pay his techs substantially more than the dealership is paying and still, by all indications, make a tidy profit.  

I remember the time when the back shop was an unwanted expense fr the dealer.

How things have changed.

This is why I don't upsell anything, I'll write it on the work order if I think it needs it and let someone rant at my boss instead.  

The average auto tech in Michigan makes 19-20 per hour. So if these techs truly accept $12/hr, they are foolish......or there's more to this rant than meets the eye. 

When i worked in a gm dealership years ago (around 2003) i was told we werent allowed to do any upsells when a car was brought in for a recall. I always assumed this was a gm policy and not an our dealership policy. We would occasionally break the rule if we saw something really bad like a ball joint or tie rod end about to seperate, but not very often. Definitely not for a throttle body cleaning or slow leak. Im suprised this isnt a more common policy.

As I’ve said before, money has to come from somewhere. When most car buyers have the tools to whittle the initial purchase down to a few hundred or a grand in profit, other revenue becomes more important. 

Vehicle inventory ties up a lot of capital and has a very long ROI. 

Took my wife’s lexus in for airbag recall today. Car is 5 years old, and has only 11,000 miles 

coming home with loaner and dealer calls that brake fluid, spark plugs, cabin and air filter, and brake inspection needed. Bill $585. 

I politely declined and stated I CHaNGED the cabin and air filter literally last week!!! In one week it needs new filters again ???? 

Service advisor responded “my mechanic must be mistaken” 

loaner had only 7 miles when they gave me. It’s brand new. My goal is to give it back in a few days with 50%+ rubber burned off as a thank you 

at least lexus fills up your car with premium fuel once you take it in for recall 

docwyte said:

Porsche dealer offered to change the spark plugs and coil packs on my 996 Turbo, with the parts I already have, for $1300.   That's pure labor cost.  I know I can do it in no more than 4 hours, which means an experienced tech can do it in far less. 

Yeah, I declined their offer...

One of my friends is now a Porsche tech... he was describing to me the procedure for doing the plugs on one of the newer ones, that involved body panel R&R or some such thing.

From what he told me, Porsche isn't very generous for labor time.  He could only rattle off one or two specific jobs where they could consistently beat book time, and it involved a lot of short-cutting.  OTOH, their hourly rate is $175-200, so it does sort of balance out, I guess.

Duke said:

As I’ve said before, money has to come from somewhere. When most car buyers have the tools to whittle the initial purchase down to a few hundred or a grand in profit, other revenue becomes more important. 

Vehicle inventory ties up a lot of capital and has a very long ROI. 

The other interesting thing, again regarding brand P, is that the slew of SUVs and Panameras that Porsche sells are making their service departments grow massively.

It's simple.  Person buys a 911, they drive it 3000, maybe 4000 miles a year, it gets serviced hardly ever.  Person buys a Macan, that vehicle is a daily driver and it racks up miles fast, has to come in for servicing a lot more often.  Bigger services, too, since a 911 might be ten or twelve years old and on its second or third owner by the time it is due for anything major service-wise, and that might not even be done at the dealership.  An SUV might be due for a 30k (or whichever the first major service is) in only a year, maybe two tops, while it is still under warranty and under finance.

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Did you question needing spark plugs at 11,000 miles?  

Lotta hate text here.

We just bought a new car from a dealership and were pleased with the experience. I think it depends on the dealership.

We went in knowing what we wanted and what we expected to pay. Due diligence is important. We negotiated an agreeable price, and knew what the service agreement was. That's it. It was an amenable deal and we were happy. It's business on both ends. Be aware.

Had the airbag recalls done on my Mustang. Local dealer also services my company blandmobile Fusion.  They never, ever try to upsell me. Airbag recall done in an hour. "Here's your key, sign here, you're all set."

You want to hear about BS upcharges? Let me tell you about taking my fleet vehicles to Monro years ago.

I got the same exact thing when I had the recall done on my wife's car. Almost $2800 estimate including a supposedly leaking hose that I could look at and know it wasn't leaking. 

I bought my '13 135i last January. It was originally a NE car, I bought from a Subaru dealer as 1 owner car in 2018 in Indianapolis. So the car didn't come from, nor had it ever been to the OKC BMW dealer.

I called the BMW dealer about the airbag recall a couple of days later, on Monday. They said bring it on Wednesday.

I dropped the car off Wednesday morning, they gave me a $75k X5 loaner car.

Called me at 2pm and told me it was done, no further drama. No trying to sell me extra services. Because the car didn't need anything at the time.

Is it possible some of you were actually taking in high mileage cars that needed maintenance?

I'm starting to feel like this forum needs a "I hate dealers because they priced work my car needed" forum.

Now granted when I called the same dealership about the cost to update the DME and DCT computers, they gave me a stupid price and told me they couldn't tell if the most recent updates we're there without just doing doing it for $500.

So I just called my Indy guy that did it for 1/4 the price, but of course he couldn't do the recall in the airbag.

My dealership rant was in regard to customer service, and nothing more. But as I said, there are enough unhappy people out there that the industry as a whole needs to work on their image. A lot of people seem to walk in with the working assumption that they will have a bad experience. Unless of course you are buying a new car, in which case you are in the gleaming marble edifice full of free cookies and fresh coffee, and smiling and helpfull staff in very good suits. Different story if you go in that door.

The mechanic did his job by mentioning things that could be addressed.

The service writer did his job by trying to sell you their high margin up-sell services.

You did your job by being an educated consumer that understands what things cost and sniffing out their overpriced work.

It's their job to sell you services to make money for the dealer. It's your job to determine if those services are necessary and worth the cost. Sounds like everybody did their jobs and played their part. Salesmen sell. Everybody is trying to get their piece of the pie, and every dollar that you make is a dollar that somebody else can't make. It's the economic circle of life. It doesn't have to be an antagonistic relationship, it's just people doing their jobs, trying to make a living.