I don't see a good end. That fat little wingnut is not backing down, and the US will not allow him to threaten them to the point that they are backed into a corner.
I worry that the father and grandfather were smart enough to know that all they really had was bluster. But Jong Un has been completely brainwashed all his life and actually believes he can take on the US. Where is this going?
Nowhere good.
He has been around (schooled in Switzerland). He has to know what he is up against. I doubt he is suicidal.
He is very much like a loud mouth bully though, that is in a desperate need of a good ass kicking...
Like many people today, I've turned to international news sources to get a better idea of what's going on. Our neighbors to the north have a pretty good handle on things.
Unhinged authoritarian son of privilege plans missile launch against same:
WASHINGTON/ PYONGYANG — Reports indicate that an egomaniacal dynastic head of state with a tenuous grip on reality is planning to launch missiles at essentially the exact same person from a rival nation.
“We will show the world, and our enemies, that my military might is not to be questioned,” said the crazed autocrat, addressing his nation’s citizens directly. “The days are gone forever when our barbaric enemies could blackmail us with nuclear bombs.”
An administration spokesman, speaking on a state-allied news broadcast, elaborated on this message. “Our great leader knows the he is beloved by his people, and will crush his adversaries under his mighty boot.”
Analysts have determined that the proposed missile launch will be of little tactical value, and was reportedly ordered by the unbalanced tyrant following a passing whim. The nation’s leader allegedly demanded the show of ballistic force following a perceived slight by his counterpart across the Pacific Ocean. The question remains whether the unstable tactical neophyte will make good on his previously-stated desire to launch nuclear missiles at his enemies.
The relatively untested leader, who had no record of political or military service before assuming power, rose to office in a highly suspicious and widely questioned election. International monitors warn that the isolationist dictator, who has built a cult of personality around himself, has become increasingly erratic in his use of military force in recent weeks. While the secretive boy prince reportedly speaks to few outside of his tightly controlled bubble, insiders have speculated about his paranoid nature and desire to sacrifice his own people.
At press time, the rest of the world remained in shock that their collective lives could be endangered by someone with hair that preposterous.
In reply to Wall-e:
Bravo Wally.
If he keeps this up and keeps pushing farther and farther I actually believe the Chinese will take him out for the rest of us.
I have often wondered if the concept of a "Peacekeeper" weapon would work. Parachute in a weapon that would only detonate if peace could not be worked out.
As to Wall-e: I find it ironic that the Korean megalomaniac has a better command of the English language than our megalomaniac. But yeah...other than that they are pretty much brothers from a different mother.
WildScotsRacing wrote: If he keeps this up and keeps pushing farther and farther I actually believe the Chinese will take him out for the rest of us.
What, you don't think Mueller will do it first?
In reply to NOHOME:
Someone needed a distraction in the news like this. Someone is very very good at manipulating messages.
And I'm out before the cement mixer starts.
WildScotsRacing wrote: If he keeps this up and keeps pushing farther and farther I actually believe the Chinese will take him out for the rest of us.
Although the Chinese have been backing away from him lately, I'm concerned about their response if (when?) this comes to blows. Even if NK hits first, our reprisal will be...uh...significant, and could provide the Chinese government a good excuse to do some nasty things.
I couldn't imagine being on Guam right now and knowing my life hangs in the balance of an ego battle between these two....people. Of course, I guess that's always the case in a war.
My wife has a good friend, who although wealthy, has had a tough life, being stricken with polio as a child and beating cancer several years ago. She has a great sense of humor and last night posted, "after hearing the news about North Korea today, I decided to finish the bottle of wine".
Yesterday he threatened Guam. That is a real concern to me because, let's face it, who really thinks about Guam much? I have a feeling that the general sentiment in the US will be "if you blow up Guam, we will strike back hard." That's not much of a policy for the folks who live on Guam! If it were San Franciso, we would be having a very different reaction, even Alaska. But Guam is way out there somewhere, easy to wait and see what happens and then react. If I lived on Guam, I would be pissed at the US and I would be moving to central Kansas.
NK is a really tough situation and it's been that way for decades. He has so many conventional weapons pointed at SK that we can't really do anything. Even a lightning strike with everything we have all at once in a total surprise will still end up with millions of SK casualties. He knows he cannot win an all-out conflict with the world, even with China's help, and I'm sure he doesn't want that either.
Honestly the best thing to do now, in my opinion, is to sit down and talk to the guy. We have to condemn the civil rights issues, but for the future of the planet, we should probably talk about putting the weapons aside for a bit.
At one point Trump said he was willing. I'm not sure if that's still the case.
Hoping this doesn't devolve into a thread lock, so let's try to keep it civil.
I think it's posturing. NK has been making threats for years. I don't think that's aimed at the US or any other country as much as it's aimed as his own people. He makes threats so the people can see that he's "all powerful" and possibly support him more. However, I'm sure he knows if the does, his country will, effectively, be destroyed. We assume his nuts (and may be), but he has to realize what launching one missile will do. I hate to say it, he would be more successful hitting South Korea or China, but he's poking the bear of the biggest bully (in their eyes). That smacks of trying to look good as opposed to actually doing something about it.
On the other hand, the US can't sit idly by and just accept it. To save some political face and not look "weak" to a much smaller country, we have to verbally respond. However, we also know that attacking first would look bullish, and most likely drive China and Russia to be forced to come to their defense.
In the long run, it's much like NK has been doing for years. Coming up with some teeth with their threats to force the other countries to acknowledge them as opposed to ignoring them. Un will use whichever reaction to his advantage. If it's sanctions, he'll starve his people out until the other countries have to intervene for humanitarian aid. If it gives them some power, they'll use it to build their countries coffers with aid via some type of talks.
Obviously, this is just my opinion. Un could really be mentally unstable and make a launch. If he does, we'll have to react. Hopefully, with the carriers we have in the area, we can shoot it down before it hits Guam or at least knock it off course. Remember, their pratice launches have never had a good record of being accurate or working. They claim they have the ability, but previous history shows they may not.
-Rob
In reply to pinchvalve:
I've been concerned about Guam ever since I learned it was in danger of tipping over.
WildScotsRacing wrote: If he keeps this up and keeps pushing farther and farther I actually believe the Chinese will take him out for the rest of us.
they Chinese just want stability. This is their rational behind taking over states on their borders. Right or wrong, this is their reason. NK is NOT a stable nation, but it has served them well as a buffer between China and their worry about an unchecked SK or US. They were useful.
As seen by the latest votes involving sanctions, China is NOT amused. They have also cut off the coal they bought from NK (ending an important source of income) and have been working with us and SK to bring the tensions on the peninsula to a calmer level.
It will not be long now till China decides to squash Kim Jung Un like a bug
He has an illusion of power and little else, so stop giving him attention. When he makes wild, unsubstantiated claims, shrug and continue about your business.
The fact that the NKs apparently have a nuke small enough to fit on a missile is rather disturbing. But both the Kims and Trump are extreme showmen - I'm not sure the rhetoric itself is a real warning sign. Keep your eyes on what they're actually doing rather than what they say they will do.
And some of what they're really doing is probably not going to be visible. Some might be - for example, if the US stations more antiballistic missiles on the Korean Penisula or parks a fleet of Ticonderoga class cruisers around known NK missile sites. (I'm not sure if a Ticonderoga can shoot down an ICBM on the launch phase, but the North Koreans probably don't know either.) Some may be less visible, such as trying to persuade China that they'd be better off setting up a puppet government that is a bit less psycho.
As for Guam - we've usually been sending our latest missile defense equipment there for a while. Probably not just the Koreans that they're worried about there.
Wall-e wrote: In reply to pinchvalve: I've been concerned about Guam ever since I learned it was in danger of tipping over.
For the uninformed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7XXVLKWd3Q
It's the conventional weapons pointed at Japan and SK that I am honestly more worried about. We can't possible take them all out, some of them are just plain old machine guns and cannons and such. Big enough to do serious damage to SK but small enough that we could never locate them all ahead of time, and dumb enough that you have to physically damage the thing to stop it from firing.
THAAD.........
I've been following the Korean situation for a LOT longer then many others (my degree was in History, and I still follow....) ANYWAY...
The situation in the North has just gotten worse.... and for once I like our idiot........
The north has been a Chinese puppet that has gotten out of control... and they never thought it would get this bad. Knowing that the Chinese believe themselves the center of civilization (Middle Kingdom), I suspect they are now in emergency mode.
I don't see this ending well, but I feel safe - even on the west coast
Much ado about nothing as usual. They don't have any tested missiles that will get close to the coast, no proven miniaturization technology for the warheads.
And even China and Russia have signed off on sanctions.
z31maniac wrote: Much ado about nothing as usual. They don't have any tested missiles that will get close to the coast, no proven miniaturization technology for the warheads. And even China and Russia have signed off on sanctions.
But the report that just came out says they do. The last ICBM test proved they can reach out and touch the US and the latest report says they do have mini nukes that will fit in war heads.
That's kinda what this thing is all about.
In reply to rob_lewis:
You're correct it's all bluster. Dictatorships exist to keep the dictator in power. Kim Jong Un knows this and so does his cabinet. They all have access to the internet and they're all western educated. They understand full well what will happen if they launch either a nuclear or conventional strike on South Korea or Japan and the effect it will have on their power.
China, irritatingly enough, is complicit in this as they have been propping up the regime for years through grey or black markets. I assume they'll continue to do so even in light of their yes vote at the UN security council to restrict mineral exports from North Korea. At the same time they've reinforced their southern border with the country to "deal" with the refugee crisis should war actually break out.
It's a complicated situation but, much like Cuba, the economic sanctions are doing little to nothing to help. Maybe it's time to find a different approach?
tuna55 wrote: NK is a really tough situation and it's been that way for decades. He has so many conventional weapons pointed at SK that we can't really do anything. Even a lightning strike with everything we have all at once in a total surprise will still end up with millions of SK casualties. He knows he cannot win an all-out conflict with the world, even with China's help, and I'm sure he doesn't want that either. Honestly the best thing to do now, in my opinion, is to sit down and talk to the guy. We have to condemn the civil rights issues, but for the future of the planet, we should probably talk about putting the weapons aside for a bit. At one point Trump said he was willing. I'm not sure if that's still the case.
This. At this point, the world has to let NK keep their nuclear weapons. The "sacred sword" is a major part of their national culture, and any meaningful attack on them could cause them to respond with those nukes (on top of conventional and chemical weapons).
If Kim-Jong Un is insufficiently crazy to respond with nukes to what's perceived as an attack that warrants a nuclear response, there's a good chance that a coup would result (perhaps disguised as yet another sudden health problem in the Kim dynasty) and some general who WILL press the button would be put in charge.
The only safe way to handle North Korea at this point is to let their angry sabre-ratting continue but prevent it from escalating, which you may recognize as the exact opposite of what's being done now. It's too late to stop them from having nukes, now it's time to stop them from using nukes. Leave them with their "sacred sword" and ignore them, and things will go back to business as usual. They'll never use nuclear weapons unless there is a real threat of an invasion, they are willing to commit murder-suicide but they don't want to initiate it.
The rest of the world may even be able to keep NK away from the big-boy table of international politics, denying them what they probably wanted nukes for in the first place.
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