There WILL be a rule about this very thing, at almost every dirt/paved short track in the U.S. in the very near future. Because short tracks need insurance to run, and insurers hate paying out for preventable accidents. So if you violate this new rule, the insurer can pay little to nothing to your family.
Driven5 wrote: Each and every one of us has done this at some point in our life
There is a logical fallacy going on here, I'm just not witty enough to remember what it is...
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:SVreX wrote: So, you are sitting in your car up against the wall. Rattled. Perhaps upside down. The adrenaline had been pumping, but now everything is a blur. You smell fuel. Strongly. But your logic is better than your emotions, so you surmise, "I need to sit here until a corner worker comes, because we have an important rule that exists to keep people from getting hurt". Yeah, right.Except the upside-down part... I have been in this exact situation. At the exit of the fastest corner on a fast race track. I stayed in the car. Getting out meant exposing my soft vulnerable bits to getting hit by cars going triple digit speeds and sliding in MY oil. I was sitting in the safest place I could be with straps cinched tight and my hand on the fire suppression pull switch counting the seconds until it was over. So... yeah, right... Stay in the berkeleying car unless it's on fire. EVERYONE knows this. Except, I guess, friday night dirt trackers.
I was in this exact situation, too, except that I WAS upside-down. I was also in a tree, though I had no idea at the time (all I could see was branches). I even heard one of the corner workers say the word "fire". But I stayed put until they got me. Which was probably a good thing, the 15-foot fall wouldn't have been too much fun.
No rules were broken and the Laws of Physics were upheld.
I have not yet raced but have observed most forms of motorsport for decades. Setting foot on a live race track seems just slightly less dumb than stepping onto a subway track. It's less dumb because there's no third rail on the race track but only slightly, as the oncoming vehicles are not scheduled.
Maybe this will lead to a reduction in the general and specific ass-hat 'rasslin behavior that is cherished by the typical stereo-typical fans.
I hope there is an overreaction in napscar land (this issue doesn't seem to apply to scca/imsa/indy/f1, but they will react as well.) because it's about time something is done about the acceptance of intended contact in this sport. It's utterly frightening to see 2 drivers tangle and the one who makes out worse feel so aggrieved they need to exact instant revenge or to "show" the other drivers not to push them around so they INTENTIONALLY GUIDE THEIR MOVING VEHICLE INTO ANOTHER MOVING VEHICLE.
This is so utterly reprehensible on too many levels - participant/safety crew/spectator safety being the most important. But really, it's because I'm cheap and love racecars, so I hate to see re$ources wasted and hate seeing racecars damaged for no reason. Not to mention yellow flag laps are lame.
If I wrote the rules, INTENTIONAL CONTACT would get you instantly parked and watching the next event from home with sharply escalating penalties for any further transgressions.
I think Tony Stewart (the brand) will be strengthened by his association with death, like Ray Lewis. I will never feel bad for Tony (the brand). I feel bad for Tony Stewart (the human) as no amount of money or success can remove this from memory banks.
Has this been ruled a suicide yet?
Easy rules change: any driver steps out of their car, fly a red flag. Makes sense to me.
dculberson wrote: Easy rules change: any driver steps out of their car, fly a red flag. Makes sense to me.
Clever! Seems like it would work well. If someone's out of their car, either they've crashed, someone else has crashed or they're just being an asshat and creating a severe track hazard.
Datsun1500 wrote:fasted58 wrote: Kevin Ward appears to have violated no rules in confronting Stewart.That makes him no less dead. Would he be less dead if he had violated a rule? Did Stewart violate a rule? It seems like everyone wants a lot of things changed because one guy decided to run in traffic. If the guy in front of Stewart had hit him instead, this would not even be news.
Posted that link for the sake of clarification. Was there a rule pertaining or not?
Any rule w/ consequences should and are intended to make any driver or team think deep before violating. Sanction or track suspension, event disqualification, probation, loss of points, fines etc. depending on severity.
How did pages of sanction and track rules come about in the first place? Why conduct code, why HANS, why even fuel cell for that matter? Decades of evolution.
If new track rules are enacted because of this incident it won't take long for teams to get it if they wanna play there, it's their sandbox after all.
GameboyRMH wrote:dculberson wrote: Easy rules change: any driver steps out of their car, fly a red flag. Makes sense to me.Clever! Seems like it would work well. If someone's out of their car, either they've crashed, someone else has crashed or they're just being an asshat and creating a severe track hazard.
And the other drivers would be pissed at the idiot that stepped out of his car since he's taking time out of their racing..
dculberson wrote: Easy rules change: any driver steps out of their car, fly a red flag. Makes sense to me.
I agree with you on this one in concept, but in this particular case (sprint cars) this isn't a feasible idea. Sprint cars don't have traditional clutches or gearboxes, they have an "in/out" box that locks the engine to the rearend, and they don't have starter motors. Once a sprint car stops, it has to be push started with a truck or ATV; it can't get going again by itself even if the driver keeps the engine running by getting the drivetrain "out". Putting it back "in" would kill the motor.
Stopping the whole field would mean you would have to push start every car to get it going again, one at a time.
Works fine for cars with regular drivetrains though.
In reply to dinger:
So? Better to have to push start 20-30 cars, than scrape up a bloody mess. 
I just spoke with a friend of mine who races dirt track at a fairly high level and this was his take.
The powers that be will try to hang this on Stewart but he was in no way responsible. Visibility out of these cars (wing, helmet, HANS, dust, dark, black suit, etc) meant that the young man was as near invisible as makes no difference.
I asked about the "stay in your car" rule and he told me that is #1 in every drivers meeting. "Step on the track unless your car is on fire and you are suspended."
Seems reasonably clear from that perspective.
KyAllroad wrote: I asked about the "stay in your car" rule and he told me that is #1 in every drivers meeting. "Step on the track unless your car is on fire and you are suspended." Seems reasonably clear from that perspective.
So do the people who have on-track tantrums always get suspended? Something doesn't add up here.
KyAllroad wrote: I just spoke with a friend of mine who races dirt track at a fairly high level and this was his take. The powers that be will try to hang this on Stewart but he was in no way responsible. Visibility out of these cars (wing, helmet, HANS, dust, dark, black suit, etc) meant that the young man was as near invisible as makes no difference. I asked about the "stay in your car" rule and he told me that is #1 in every drivers meeting. "Step on the track unless your car is on fire and you are suspended." Seems reasonably clear from that perspective.
but do they actually suspend the drivers ?
SVreX wrote: In reply to Driven5: You are an engineer. I understand that engineers like rules, and believe in their ability to fix problems. We disagree. I also understand that lots of the world likes rules, and believes in their ability to solve problems, and that I will loose this debate. I will still disagree. When they write the rule, I will abide by it, because I already do. However, I believe in the law of unintended consequences. I may not be willing to abide by the rules that come as by products and unintended consequences of this rule. Enjoy!
Now now, I am an engineer. I also hate rules.
To me rules are inherently neutral, not inherently bad. They can be good or bad depending on what the rule is.
Bobzilla wrote: This is one of those Neanderthal things I just don't get. The "he wronged me so now I'm going to beat him up/kill him to get my respect" crap. Seriously? How has a modern society allowed this to hang onto our psyche for so long? We're supposed to be this evolved species that has moved on from our primal instincts etc but we allow this "retribution" crap?
^Yeah we're just balding apes with fancy gadgets.
OK I just saw a slo mo video of that incident... and it changes everything.
He did NOT get hit by Tony Stewart's car... he JUMPED onto it and hung onto the wing 
Seriously? That's retarded.
Flyin Mikey J wrote: OK I just saw a slo mo video of that incident... and it changes everything. He did NOT get hit by Tony Stewart's car... he JUMPED onto it and hung onto the wing
can't tell if serious..
Flyin Mikey J wrote: OK I just saw a slo mo video of that incident... and it changes everything. He did NOT get hit by Tony Stewart's car... he JUMPED onto it and hung onto the wing
Are you watching a different video?
Also, there has been a lot if talk in this thread about Tony Stewart's reputation (one of my posts included), but has anyone looked into Ward's? Is it possible that he was a known hot head, or even psycho?
Flyin Mikey J wrote: OK I just saw a slo mo video of that incident... and it changes everything. He did NOT get hit by Tony Stewart's car... he JUMPED onto it and hung onto the wing
I don't know if I would call that "jumping into the wing", but slow mo def changes things for the viewer. Looks like maybe he grabbed the wing.
N Sperlo wrote: Looks like maybe he grabbed the wing.
...then the tire grabbed him back. Tire knows the difference between a good touch and a bad touch.
There's a few news articles that mention the new video that shows the wing grab but I can't find the actual video. Any links?
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