If you have ever been in a race car on a dirt track at night, the visibility is not the greatest.
I've seen similar things happen, although not as tragic.
Latest report. No charges have been filed. Just a tragic accident.
If you have ever been in a race car on a dirt track at night, the visibility is not the greatest.
I've seen similar things happen, although not as tragic.
Latest report. No charges have been filed. Just a tragic accident.
OHSCrifle wrote: hopefully some hindsight on this will result in more common sense safety measures that prevent from repeating.
What additional safety measures are necessary beyond "Don't get out of the berkeleying car"?
Datsun1500 wrote: but someone else might have hit him instead. He would have 100% chance of living if he did not get out of his car.
+1.
I've never even sat in a sprint car but from these pics it looks like the view to the right is pretty obscured by the wing element hanging down.
When I watched the video, it was hard to be sure but to me it looked as if the rear of Stewart's car didn't 'jink' to the left until AFTER he ran over Ward. It looks as if the car is going straight just before contact. I wasn't there and have seen no other vids, to me at this point it looks like Ward was at least 90% at fault: getting pissed off, getting out of his car on a still hot track, walking down to the race line and trying to lean into Stewart's car to give him the finger etc.
Of course he's dead and Stewart is high profile, also known as a hothead, so guess which way public opinion is going to swing?
Watched the vid a couple of times and looks like a tragic case of two tempers clashing. I imagine "stay in your car" is going to be the theme for a lot of driver's meetings.
What additional safety measures are necessary beyond "Don't get out of the berkeleying car"?
Good question. Don't know. In motorsports, like in life, things happen in the heat of the moment that are regrettable. I didn't grow up racing, and I don't race now, so I don't know all the written rules, nor the unwritten rules - actions that are simply "understood" in certain situations. For example, is it required to hug the opposite wall if a wrecked car sits against a wall? That'd seem reasonable - but maybe impractical due to debris or something.
Bad situation no matter what.
Dimly lit and didn't see him MY ASS! He saw him, and I'm sure he didn't want to hit him but just scare him, and yes the other driver should have stayed in his car, unfortunately it happened and there is tons of blame to go around. Sanctioning bodies like NASCAR should have a no tolerance policy. "It's Racing" is BS, and it's no different than freeway road rage, and if you or I got pissed at someone and did something stupid with our car, our ass would be in big trouble. I love racing, but I hate stupid acts like this on all levels.
I hope it was an accident on Stewarts part. That's all I can say. Most people (including some in this thread) are making an ass of themselves with horrible speculation.
Tahoe wrote: Dimly lit and didn't see him MY ASS! He saw him, and I'm sure he didn't want to hit him but just scare him, and yes the other driver should have stayed in his car, unfortunately it happened and there is tons of blame to go around. Sanctioning bodies like NASCAR should have a no tolerance policy. "It's Racing" is BS, and it's no different than freeway road rage, and if you or I got pissed at someone and did something stupid with our car, our ass would be in big trouble. I love racing, but I hate stupid acts like this on all levels.
did you watch the full video? either no, or you saw something completely different than the rest of us.
the incident that sparked it all looked like a totally normal dirt track happening - two guys bumped tires and one ate the wall, but then flipped out, got out of the car, ran down to the driving line, and got himself killed. and now tony stewart is going to have to live with that fact for the rest of his life. i do not like nor watch nascar or any other oval track stuff, so i'm not being an apologist for tony, but i feel the dead guy is 100% in the wrong here.
on top of that you have twitter and the morons on it, who posted things from the track like "tony stewart just ran over a guy in retaliation" that all the news outlets pick up on as "news" and run with it, and by morning stewart = charles manson.
The act of getting out of your car to show displeasure is what has cost this kid his life, but is nothing new. Happens all the time, in most series, on both asphalt and dirt.
I think part of it is that to a driver, it looks cool. It makes the headlines and highlight reels all the time. The act has been glorified into how you should handle being wronged.
That being said, it should not happen. Stay in your car until instructed by officials or safety personnel. Sit on your emotions, and if they are still sky high at the completion of the event, then go vent your frustrations to whoever you are upset with, face to face, like an adult.
Tahoe wrote: Dimly lit and didn't see him MY ASS! He saw him, and I'm sure he didn't want to hit him but just scare him, and yes the other driver should have stayed in his car, unfortunately it happened and there is tons of blame to go around. Sanctioning bodies like NASCAR should have a no tolerance policy. "It's Racing" is BS, and it's no different than freeway road rage, and if you or I got pissed at someone and did something stupid with our car, our ass would be in big trouble. I love racing, but I hate stupid acts like this on all levels.
This is a very irresponsible thing to say, IMO. The bottom line is that nobody but Stewart knows what really happened, and he hasn't talked yet.
I wouldn't be surprised to see sanctioning bodies start to fine people for getting out of their cars on a hot track, though. As they should.
Wow, so much speculation, nobody but Tony knows if he had intent, but there seemed to be no malice involved IMHO
me = sads. Just a tragedy all around. I've been to that track in college. Canandaigua Speedway is pretty close to Rochester.
Here's what I see.. A young driver who got forced into a wall because he wasn't cool headed enough to back down. He then does something that people do at small dirt tracks all around the country every weekend. He gets out of his car, dumb, and then chases down the guy who "caused" him to crash. I put "caused" in quotes because he wasn't actually T-boned nor directly knocked out, he had the choice to back out. As Curmudgeon taught me, The throttle goes both ways. Ward got too close to a moving car and Tony got too close to him. It seemed like Tony was in his standard racing line when he came off the corner, and ward was in his way. We can only guess that Tony wanted to scare him, but Tony had the choice to slow down or move over. Neither He does...
We've all seen bad behavior like this at local tracks. I've seen helmet and punch throwing. I've seen jumping on moving cars, etc. Ward learned the hard way that this behavior is dangerous.
How about, if you get out of car to start a fight etc at a track, you're banned for a year and your car is seized and sold at auction(for charity). We're americans, we're really good at putting in strong over the top rules only after tradgedy instead of smaller controls before.
Tahoe wrote: Dimly lit and didn't see him MY ASS! He saw him, and I'm sure he didn't want to hit him but just scare him, and yes the other driver should have stayed in his car, unfortunately it happened and there is tons of blame to go around. Sanctioning bodies like NASCAR should have a no tolerance policy. "It's Racing" is BS, and it's no different than freeway road rage, and if you or I got pissed at someone and did something stupid with our car, our ass would be in big trouble. I love racing, but I hate stupid acts like this on all levels.
I don't buy it.
You are suggesting that Tony Stewart (one of the most seasoned drivers in the world) was not capable of handling his car properly.
Nope. It's just not an option.
That's like saying an MLB pitcher hit the batter by accident.
I would suggest that Tony Stewart is infinitely capable of placing every inch of his car exactly where he wants it regardless of the track conditions or road surface.
The ONLY options are:
1- Dimly lit and didn't see him, or
2- Vehicular homicide.
I can't accept option #2.
Tragic.
No comment.
iceracer wrote: If you have ever been in a race car on a dirt track at night, the visibility is not the greatest. I've seen similar things happen, although not as tragic. Latest report. No charges have been filed. Just a tragic accident.
except that in this day-n-age there's no such thing as an simple accident … assuming that there aren't any charges (can't see any reason that there will) … I'm sure Mr. Ward's family will be inundated with ambulance chasers "guaranteeing" them $millions$$$ if they sue for "wrongful death" … regardless of the fact that he brought it on his self by getting out of his car and charging the "one who done him wrong" ….
truly hate that Mr. Ward is dead … but if he'd kept control of his emotions and stayed in his car until safety workers told him to get out … he'd still be alive
SVreX wrote:Tahoe wrote: Dimly lit and didn't see him MY ASS! He saw him, and I'm sure he didn't want to hit him but just scare him, and yes the other driver should have stayed in his car, unfortunately it happened and there is tons of blame to go around. Sanctioning bodies like NASCAR should have a no tolerance policy. "It's Racing" is BS, and it's no different than freeway road rage, and if you or I got pissed at someone and did something stupid with our car, our ass would be in big trouble. I love racing, but I hate stupid acts like this on all levels.I don't buy it. You are suggesting that Tony Stewart (one of the most seasoned drivers in the world) was not capable of handling his car properly. Nope. It's just not an option. That's like saying an MLB pitcher hit the batter by accident. I would suggest that Tony Stewart is infinitely capable of placing every inch of his car exactly where he wants it regardless of the track conditions or road surface. The ONLY options are: 1- Dimly lit and didn't see him, or 2- Vehicular homicide. I can't accept option #2. Tragic.
that actually does happen … not all hit batters are on purpose
The motor reving sound in the one video, if from a car on the front stretch.
And looking out a sprint car out the front, is like looking down a 1sq/ft tunnel.
In reply to wbjones:
Major league pitchers are so accurate that many people have argued being hit by a pitch could constitute aggravated assault. That's not the law in any state, but the general understanding in the majors is that there are not too many accidents.
racerfink wrote: The motor reving sound in the one video, if from a car on the front stretch. And looking out a sprint car out the front, is like looking down a 1sq/ft tunnel.
+1.
Here's the view, under the lights.
wbjones wrote:iceracer wrote: If you have ever been in a race car on a dirt track at night, the visibility is not the greatest. I've seen similar things happen, although not as tragic. Latest report. No charges have been filed. Just a tragic accident.except that in this day-n-age there's no such thing as an simple accident … assuming that there aren't any charges (can't see any reason that there will) … I'm sure Mr. Ward's family will be inundated with ambulance chasers "guaranteeing" them $millions$$$ if they sue for "wrongful death" … regardless of the fact that he brought it on his self buy getting out of his car and charging the "one who done him wrong" …. truly hate that Mr. Ward is dead … but if he'd kept control of his emotions and stayed in his car until safety workers told him to get out … he'd still be alive
[attorney] 'How DARE you suggest this young man should be held to a high standard of personal behavior and responsibility!' [/attorney]
Man, I hate that this happened. I hate that he's gone. I cannot imagine what Stewart or the young man's family are going through right now. I do know this: if he had stayed in the car none of this would have happened. I also know some dickhead of a lawyer will BS a large settlement out of Stewart and the track management meaning we will see a little more of our personal freedoms torn away.
I'm gonna get off my soapbox now.
http://deadspin.com/reports-tony-stewart-ran-over-opposing-driver-during-1618893708
everyone at the track heard him gun it. its not really speculation at this point. It also doesn't help that a dirt track racer chimes in that the visibility is good enough to see out of those cars. Every other driver missed him.
Props to Tony's PR team for putting out such highlights as, "business as usual for us, he will go racing", and "Tony slept on it and decided not to race today". I think after killing someone, the phrases of "business as usual", and "he slept on it" are really really bad.
I don't think he meant to kill him, but that doesn't take away the fact that its manslaughter.
SVreX wrote:racerfink wrote: The motor reving sound in the one video, if from a car on the front stretch. And looking out a sprint car out the front, is like looking down a 1sq/ft tunnel.+1. Here's the view, under the lights. Sprint car at Knoxville
Here's the view from the top of the driver's helmet. You can see pretty well from that perspective, in spite of being blocked by the top of the rollbar and the wing which wouldn't obstruct the driver any.
lnlogauge wrote: http://deadspin.com/reports-tony-stewart-ran-over-opposing-driver-during-1618893708 everyone at the track heard him gun it. its not really speculation at this point. It also doesn't help that a dirt track racer chimes in that the visibility is good enough to see out of those cars. Every other driver missed him. Props to Tony's PR team for putting out such highlights as, "business as usual for us, he will go racing", and "Tony slept on it and decided not to race today". I think after killing someone, the phrases of "business as usual", and "he slept on it" are really really bad. I don't think he meant to kill him, but that doesn't take away the fact that its manslaughter.
Who's "everyone"? You mean the "alleged witnesses"? (that's what they are referred to in your link)
Of course you can see out of the cars. They are race cars. Under the lights, Turn 2 (darkest), lap 14 (dust on windshield), with a car in front of you swerving around him? Maybe, maybe not.
Armchair detective work. I'll refrain at this point- the speculation is disrespectful to both parties.
It won't be manslaughter until he is charged.
racerfink wrote: And looking out a sprint car out the front, is like looking down a 1sq/ft tunnel.
Never driven a sprint car. But I have driven some jalopies on the dirt bull-rings in PA. With the dust, poor lighting, etc. you can't see a damm thing. And that was long enough ago that things like halo seat and oversize side wings that make it worse didn't exist.
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