Venting...kids and college

This is mostly a vent, a rant, just getting it off my chest so that when I see my daughter next I don't dump this train of thought on her.

My kid is finishing her senior year in HS. She has worked hard and done very well, she is a National Merit Scholarship finalist. She was accepted to her first choice school, University of Chicago, but even with their meager scholarship offering to her it would be 39k a year. Her mother (my ex) and I have both agreed that's insane. Daughter, while disappointed, understands the situation.

She has 2 other options, U of MD, she lives in MD now so its close to home and "safe" with scholarships and other aid it will cost her 9k a year.

The last option, University of Arizona, is offering a FULL RIDE. Full fecking scholarship to a good school, what a great opportunity! Top that off with her primary hobby is skiing and they have a great ski club and lots of activities around that, this is like a dream option it would seem.

Well the daughter is too busy licking her wounds about not being able to go to Chicago to make a choice and Im starting to think I've raised one of those spoiled kids who feel entitled to everything they want (this is not her normal MO)

The Ex, along with my current wife and most other relatives all have her scared to death of the Arizona option. Without fail, rather than start the conversation with "What a great school" or "What a great opportunity" they start with, "wow, that's so far away...." great way to inspire the kid.

At the end of the day its her choice, I'd prefer she took the opportunity to get out of the little bubble of life she has in MD and experience more by going to AZ. I know its not easy, but I also know thousands of kids survive the experience each year and are just fine, and I know my kid is strong enough to do great.

I'm not on the hook for money no matter what she chooses (I have a great divorce agreement) but if she had no options I would be paying happily to help out, but since she has FREE on the table then I think she needs to take it.

I don't mean to sound like a horrible dad, I love my daughter and would do anything for her, that's why Im venting here, because I just know so many kids who did well, worked hard and dont have the options she has today and it seems she is not very appreciative of what a great opportunity she has been handed.

Tough thing. My son finished in 7 semesters with a BS Chemistry. He owes $21,000 thru Fed loans - $250/month for 120 payments. Ouch.

He is headed to Grad school - pays $24,000/year with free tuition for a 5 year doctorate program in Chemistry. Good but you live life in a lab....

Push the free school. If she is smart enough for U of Chicago; she should be going to grad school. Throw her the payback numbers.

Let me get this straight: people want to live in Maryland?

Datsun310Guy wrote: Push the free school. If she is smart enough for U of Chicago; she should be going to grad school. Throw her the payback numbers.

This is the one option the ex and I were originally going to push, if she takes the free bachelors then the money that's been put aside for school can pay for her to do a masters program at Chicago. But now it seems the ex is starting to feel the threatening separation anxiety so I don't think she's throwing her full support behind that anymore.

Mitchell wrote: Let me get this straight: people want to live in Maryland?

yeah, go figger, I though the kid would be itchin to get out of there, I know I was. Unfortunately my haste to depart landed me in NJ instead.

Assuming UoC is out, tell her this: "Go to Arizona. If you don't like it after a year, MD will still be available. Also, think how many plane tickets 9k a year will buy"

As for her moping about Chicago, she's supposed to feel that way. This is THE biggest ordeal in her life, and one of the biggest she'll ever have. She had a chance at a Ferrari, and had to settle for a Corvette. She'll get over it in time, and realize that the Ferrari isn't as great as she expected, and that the Corvette is pretty great too.

Maybe it would be worth a trip to Arizona. And Chicago. Before summer.

I'd push the free school as well. Distance is a good thing for a college student. They need to learn to be self sufficient and being a long way from home is a good way to accomplish that.

Sorry to hear about the Chicago thing but $39K a year is just stupid expensive.

mtn wrote: Assuming UoC is out, tell her this: "Go to Arizona. If you don't like it after a year, MD will still be available. Also, think how many plane tickets 9k a year will buy" As for her moping about Chicago, she's supposed to feel that way. This is THE biggest ordeal in her life, and one of the biggest she'll ever have. She had a chance at a Ferrari, and had to settle for a Corvette. She'll get over it in time, and realize that the Ferrari isn't as great as she expected, and that the Corvette is pretty great too.

Yep this is what I'm saying to the Ex, I'll talk with the daughter when she comes to visit. I'm less upset with the fact that she's down about it than I am with the fact that her mother is playing into it. Gave me the whole sob story about how she felt bad she couldn't give her everything she wants in life. I think its a fine lesson to learn early that you won't get everything you want in life, but if you work hard enough you'll get what you need and maybe a little more.

Woody wrote: Maybe it would be worth a trip to Arizona. And Chicago. Before summer.

Been to both. She loves Arizona, loved the school, loved the class offerings, loves the skiing. So the sudden fear of being away from home is feeling like mommy's projected empty nest woes to me.
And she loves Chicago, even in the winter....god knows why.

Toyman01 wrote: I'd push the free school as well. Distance is a good thing for a college student. They need to learn to be self sufficient and being a long way from home is a good way to accomplish that. Sorry to hear about the Chicago thing but $39K a year is just stupid expensive.

Agreed, 39k is just insane, no way you can justify to me what makes chicago worth that much more than Arizona, Maryland or any place else.

Going with the free one (assuming a comparable school, which it sounds like it is) is a good financial decision that'll pay off for her in the long run. In today's connected world, Arizona is not that far from MD. Heck, if it weren't for all of our family being based in the Northeast, Arizona would be one of the destinations at the top of my list.

man, i have no idea how to handle that. i'm an engineer, so i love numbers. have you shown her the spreadsheet yet? what's her major and what do fresh-outs pull for annual salary, and where will she have to live to pull that salary? how long will it take to pay off that school bill, and how much equity could she have in a first house by taking the free ride in AZ?

berkeley man, i would have gone to the university of getting punched in the taint if they offered me a full ride.

Craps, my 18 YO step daughter is upping and leaving Mi to move to Colorado the day she graduates H.S. so she can live and work there for year, get a house, pay tax, get a drivers licence and all that good stuff so she can get in state tuition a year down the road. Time for your kid to grow up a bit and experience therethereal world.

AngryCorvair wrote: man, i have no idea how to handle that. i'm an engineer, so i love numbers. have you shown her the spreadsheet yet? what's her major and what do fresh-outs pull for annual salary, and where will she have to live to pull that salary? how long will it take to pay off that school bill, and how much equity could she have in a first house by taking the free ride in AZ? berkeley man, i would have gone to the university of getting punched in the taint if they offered me a full ride.

LOL, I did go to that University, it was called the USAF. But it was the only "free ride" was getting.

She's smart, she understands the realities of it, she's just hurt by the realities and upset that being a middle class white kid is keeping her from affording "her" school (her mom's words and a lesson that, while true, is still a bit insulting and prejudiced)

That's the other thing, she's going to be an english major, she's going to be paid crap out of school no matter what school it is, and she knows it.

The more I calm down and look at it the more I understand she is hurt and Im willing to let her have this moment to lick her wounds, my real upset is coming from her mother who is feeding the whole entitlement angle and scaring her into staying close to home. I find it funny how my daughter had no issues with being so "far from home" at Chicago.

Datsun1500 wrote: She worked hard and got a full ride. That's a huge accomplishment. Play that angle up to the fullest. Arizona is close to great skiing, hiking, etc. Mine got a similar scholarship to Chicago as well, and a full ride to Rutgers. I sat her down and talked to her as an adult. Option A is $40k a year, option B is $0. What would you choose if you were paying for it? She starts Rutgers in September. Since mom is paying, I'm surprised she's not pushing AZ

If she ever needs a some local help just holler, not sure which campus she's at but Rutgers is localish.

Mom loves the financial idea of AZ, but keeps feeding me lines about how many kids drop out freshman year because of the homesickness. A) How is this not an issue in Chicago B) I think that's selling my daughter pretty short. Yeah, it will be hard at first, but she'll survive, she's a strong, smart kid.

And congrats to the daughter on Rutgers, excellent school.

I don't have a lot to add here other than paying back the loans is harder than you picture it as you receive the checks. Encourage her to give AZ a try!

Lof8 wrote: I don't have a lot to add here other than paying back the loans is harder than you picture it as you receive the checks. Encourage her to give AZ a try!

Well Chicago is plain out, she knows she cant pay that and noone else is offering. Her mom is offering to pick up the 9k for UoMD if she goes but I'd still rather see her get out and experience the world.

Her mom and I agree on one thing, she needs to get out of those 4 years debt free.

I graduated 10 years ago and am about to finally write my last student loan payment check out of my little spring bonus. Good feeling. I went to college out of state on a National Merit scholarship deal, too (for me, I've been paying for ten years on loans for rent and beer... :) ). It was a good thing for me, I think, but I didn't go across the country, either. Everybody's different.

Here's a thought, and something I didn't know. A LOT of state schools will write a full or close to it ride for a NMS Finalist- so if AZ is too far, MD is too close- look around. There are likely other options out there too- but I'm sure the scholarship app deadline is approaching- my sons all owe their very lives to the fact that the campus in Tuscaloosa was so pretty and full of coeds in the spring, and that I was enough of a slacker to miss the scholarship app deadline at UT Knoxville.

Seriously just pitch her the line of "Don't you want to see more than Maryland?" My parents hated my choice of the farthest in state university(USI), but as its taken me 5 years to pay my single years worth of bills there, she really needs to jump on AZ. Tell her it'll teach perseverance, and it'll be a good vacation spot for yourself and the ex to come visit. ;)

UofA is a great school. Both my parents graduated from there.

I'd be pushing for the full-ride school.

And congratulations to her on this achievement!

Although I understand where you're coming from on the debt-free thing (my lump-sum loan payoff for a school that I couldn't afford to finish is $27k, and I don't even have a degree to show for it), I can say from second-hand experience that Chicago is a fantastic school. My girlfriend and my sister both did undergrad there, and I can tell that their educational experience shaped the way they think in a positive way. That school took two very bright young ladies and made them into phenomenal people.

Your daughter (and her parents!) should be over the moon that she was accepted. I'm sure it's a blow that the financial picture counts it out, but you're spot on: the graduate programs at Chicago are great as well.

I read the word "vent," so I'll reply with "I'm sorry." I really am. Before you go beating yourself up, she's NOT:

Pregnant. Stupid. Lazy.

She's obviously smart and motivated. She's still a kid. Kids' brains are not wired to calculate long-term consequences of their decisions. Sounds like you're doing a good job, dad!

Another vote for the full-ride school. We hired a couple of recent grads at work and even though they're paid quite well given that we live in a low cost of living area, the student loans certainly weren't helping.

The other thing she should probably keep in mind that once you are so far away that the only reasonable way to get "home"[1] is by jumping on a plane, a few more hours in said contraption aren't going to make a difference.

[1] Home will change pretty quickly to where she is.

People are saying far from parents like its a bad thing? Does she really want to be close enough for mommy to drop by unannounced? Let her experience a different culture then use the money saved to study abroad in Europe her junior year.

I would also cut her some slack for being bummed that after working hard enough to get accepted to her first choice school she cant afford it.

Beer Baron wrote: People are saying far from parents like its a bad thing? Does she really want to be close enough for mommy to drop by unannounced? Let her experience a different culture then use the money saved to study abroad in Europe her junior year.

Agreed, and I'd never heard her express her own concern until her mom started expressing concerns. That's why I'm worried she's projecting her own fears on our daughter. Hell, I'm her dad, I know what goes on and I still want her to get out and explore the damn world.

I would say in this economy and that job goal, everyone should look at the economics first and substantially more than all other factors,including her dream school. I'd start with the ex and try to get her to see that, and how her current approach may be destructive to the situation. The responsible thing is $0 vs $120K. If the ex is not in agreement you will have an uphill battle.