Was EVH the best to ever do it?

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Neat that Alex was playing an ES-347.  I didn't know about those until recently. They are on my Reverb "watch" list for the right one to come along at a tolerable price.  Turns out Gibson sold a few with factory installed Kahler bridges, which I appeals to the masochist in me (I already have 3 Gibsons with Kahlers).  I saw one for sale on Reverb that was exactly what I wanted (black w/ Kahler), but it was in Indonesia or something and that didn't get past my side-eye checks. 

I never really got into Testament back in the day.  Not sure why... But I've always admire Alex's playing.  Very talented and versatile.  I actually had to go back and listen to an old videos to remember what they sounded like.  Very "AJFA" era Metallica like (with a much better mix) - at least the one song I listened to (Practice what you Preach). I can listen to more. 

Duke said:

Has Jeff Beck entered the chat yet?  If not, why not?

Anybody who studies and practices enough can learn how to play like Eddie.

Nobody has learned how to play like Jeff Beck.  And it's not the hardware, because I've seen videos of him switching rigs with other guitarists, and Jeff still sounds like Beck on somebody else's guitar.

 

Speaking of which. This came across my feed today...

Have we mentioned Steve Lukather? He founded Toto but is a massive session player. Wikipedia says more than 1500 albums with some familiar names: Herb Alpert, Michael Bolton, Cher, Chicago, Joe Cocker, Alice Cooper, Neil Diamond, Aretha Franklin, Michael Jackson (“Thriller*”), Quincy Jones, Kenny Loggins, Richard Marx, Joni Mitchell, Olivia Newton-John, Lionel Richie, Kenny Loggins, Dianna Ross, Ringo, Barbara Streisand and, like a bunch more. 

* Eddie Van Halen famously played the solo, of course. 

David S. Wallens said:

Have we mentioned Steve Lukather? He founded Toto but is a massive session player. Wikipedia says more than 1500 albums with some familiar names: Herb Alpert, Michael Bolton, Cher, Chicago, Joe Cocker, Alice Cooper, Neil Diamond, Aretha Franklin, Michael Jackson (“Thriller*”), Quincy Jones, Kenny Loggins, Richard Marx, Joni Mitchell, Olivia Newton-John, Lionel Richie, Kenny Loggins, Dianna Ross, Ringo, Barbara Streisand and, like a bunch more. 

 

* Eddie Van Halen famously played the solo, of course. 

Speaking of Lukather, the new Yacht Rock documentary on HBO is just excellent.

David S. Wallens said:

Have we mentioned Steve Lukather? He founded Toto but is a massive session player. Wikipedia says more than 1500 albums with some familiar names: Herb Alpert, Michael Bolton, Cher, Chicago, Joe Cocker, Alice Cooper, Neil Diamond, Aretha Franklin, Michael Jackson (“Thriller*”), Quincy Jones, Kenny Loggins, Richard Marx, Joni Mitchell, Olivia Newton-John, Lionel Richie, Kenny Loggins, Dianna Ross, Ringo, Barbara Streisand and, like a bunch more. 

 

* Eddie Van Halen famously played the solo, of course. 

People use the word underrated about musicians all the time. I think Steve Lukather fits that description. He didn't just play on a zillion records, he contributed/created parts for them as well. Yet outside of music circles nobody knows who he is. 

Odd timing - I listened to part of this interview on the way home last night:

Love how he just keeps talking. 

Thought this was funny, it popped up on my FB feed for some reason. I've said for a long time, he's a far better player than his dad, but his name never comes up in guitar player discussions.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Good call with that.

Headliner musicians get big acclaim, but I often feel like it's the session players who are the true greats.

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm not a musician, so take this with the appropriate grain of salt, but it seems to me there's a difference between being able to play something amazing that someone else did, and coming up with something amazing and being able to play it. There are probably millions of guitar players in the world at any given time, it stands to reason that some of them are probably more technically proficient than Eddie. What sets him apart in my mind is the ability to not just play that stuff, but also come up with the memorable hooks and riffs that I mentioned before, as well as the songwriting, the arranging, the on-stage persona, and everything else he brought to the table.

But at the end of the day, this is all subjective. It's art. By definition, nobody can be the "best". The one thing I can say definitively is that EVH is/was MY personal favorite guitar player.

I say this all the time. I played drums from diapers until college and can play a little guitar.........but would not call myself a musician. 

Being able to copy what someone else did, sure it takes a lot of skill. But to write that amazing thing that people want to copy is an entirely different ballgame. 

For instance "Bleed" by Meshuggah on the drums. Tomas Haake did an interview where he said they didn't know if the song would make the album. He said it took 6 months to really lock it in and develop the stamina and all the little subtle changes to the pattern over the course of the song. 

The last performance I went to was Leo Kottke.  For those who are not familiar with him, he's the most amazing acoustic guitar player I've heard.  His music is sort of a blues/jazz/folk mashup, plus he's also very funny (if you have a warped sense of humor).  The stories he tells between songs are classic.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Kottke  Years ago here in Minneapolis he did some collaborations with another guitarist named Peter Lang, who's well worth looking up on YouTube as well (and incidentally he and I worked at the same company for a time.)

The thing is, there are many many guitarists out there who don't aren't as widely known as Van Halen or Lukather or the others, but their performances are still out of this world.

Maybe a related thought.

If I practiced a lot, I bet I could sound like Van Halen–or insert your favorite guitar hero.

But a related story.

A while back, I brought up an Iron Maiden bass line to Randy, my instructor.

Don’t know that song, he replied. Let me listen.

So he pulled up the YouTube video on his phone and listened to it for a few seconds. 

Okay, he continued, let me show you how it’s played.

And his version sounded a lot like Steve Harris’.

Randy admits that he’s not near the league of Steve Lukather or the names mentioned here, but it does show how a really good player knows the fretboard and how to use it–and how to insert the right feelings and emotions. 

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Over the years I've learned Iron Maiden songs are rarely difficult from a technical aspect.  And being able to figure out a song from listening to it is a practiced skill a lot of advanced players can do.  Or even hack players with some experience and practice.  When I was playing in a band and practicing more often than the random noodling I do now, I was tolerable at being able to figure out some less complicated songs. 

One thing that has amazed me in recent years is how Steve Harris continues to come up with interesting melodies out of fairly simple patterns and scales.  And how many Maiden songs are variations of C-D-E. 

Ahh, please allow me to muddy the waters of subjectivity with yet another opinion.

EVH is a master of his chosen craft. He is a very proficient guitarest. technically capable.

Nothing he has ever played has made me feel anything. It has never conveyed any sort of thoughts or emotions other than "look what I can do"

It's masterbatory.

To go back to the example posted above, Meshuggah's bleed.

Thomas' drum performance is impressive. but it isn't showboating. It works because those drums are working in concert (no pun intended) with the rest of the band. The drums work with the guitar and bass, not against them. Even Jen's vocals work with the uniqueness of the rhythm.

The band is there to tell a story, in this particular case, dying of an aneurysm.

Van Halen songs seem to exist as misogynistic vehicles of self-aggrandizement.

I don't know who the best guitarist is, but if I were putting together a list, he wouldn't be on it.

VH songs absolutely make me feel things, but I suppose that's the subjective nature of art.

When I think of technical proficiency with no soul, I think of guys like Yngwie Malmsteen.

VH makes me feel lots of things. The opening of Panama makes me feel like i'm ripping up a back road on a beautiful spring day. The outro jam in Drop Dead Legs gives me goosebumps when I hear it.

Honestly, Eruption is the song i dislike the most. It leans towards the "meaningless techincal showboating" but I also think it's important context that no-one else was really doing that back then except EVH. So I can give it a pass as it was innovative at the time. 
 

I don't know what VH you have and haven't heard, but if you were so inclined to explore a bit more, some other songs I think might change your opinion are Dance The Night Away and So This is Love?

In reply to budget_bandit :

Although I'm with you and Tom_Spangler generally... for the sake of a fun argument...

How much of that is admiration for the band Van Halen vs. the guitarist Eddie Van Halen?

How much is driven by EVH being an artist on the guitar vs. the rest of the band knowing how to take his guitar playing and build art around it? I would argue that soul of Van Halen's music is driven much more strongly by David Lee Roth/Sammy Hagar and Alex Van Halen.

Honestly, my favorite solo in VH is Alex drumming intro to "Hot for Teacher". It's better than EVH's guitar, and the song really kicks in when Michael Anthony comes in on bass.

stuart in mn said:

Pete said this in an earlier post: "I recently read an interview where he feels that current guitarists are going too much for quantity of notes than quality."  It reminds me of my college band director, who was an old school jazz sax player.  He often complained about how many current jazz performers were basically running up and down scales as fast as they could, without a lot of actual substance in their playing.  

That's basically Coltane's "sheets of sound" technique from the late 50s. Ever since Charlie Parker, excessive technical ability has been a mainstay of jazz saxophone. But if you can't tell a story with it, you're just showing off empty chops. 

Van Hagar > Van Halen

Sammy is great with EVH

How about Ronnie Montrose on guitar? Sammy is great with Ronnie Montrose.

Has anyone mentioned Joe Satriani yet?

Here's Joe Satriani absolutely killing Jon Lord's parts in Highway Star (With Sammy Hagar, Michael Anthony and Chad Smith).

Satch isn't from this planet. 

ShawnG said:

Has anyone mentioned Joe Satriani yet?

Satriani is definitely one of those artists that has impressive technical ability but lacks the emotional expression that really impacts me or would allow him to make my list of greats.

In reply to Beer Baron 🍺 :

Which is kind of how I feel about Jeff Beck. Joe Satriani, though, he'd be on my list. 

OG Van Halen with Dave would have sucked without Michael Anthony carrying Dave in harmony.  There, I said it.    

In reply to Peabody :

I like EVH better than either of them.

I still wouldn't call him THE greatest, but definitely in the pantheon of greats. Pretty hard to top within that Shredder Metal style. I wouldn't argue him as the best all-arounder because he doesn't have as much breadth to his playing.

For greats that haven't been discussed yet...

Keith Tanner said:

stuart in mn said:

Pete said this in an earlier post: "I recently read an interview where he feels that current guitarists are going too much for quantity of notes than quality."  It reminds me of my college band director, who was an old school jazz sax player.  He often complained about how many current jazz performers were basically running up and down scales as fast as they could, without a lot of actual substance in their playing.  

That's basically Coltane's "sheets of sound" technique from the late 50s. Ever since Charlie Parker, excessive technical ability has been a mainstay of jazz saxophone. But if you can't tell a story with it, you're just showing off empty chops. 

As I'm learning bass, I'm rapidly coming to the philosophy that what I need to do is learn all of the notes so that I can actively leave out everything unnecessary.

I would offer this thought to anyone who considers VH's music doesn't convey emotion or passion:  Either you're a woman (women generally hate VH) or you're old and your memory is shot.

Van Halen's music is absolutely brimming with adolescent male hormones and angst and pent-up everything looking for release. 

So there. 

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

You're not wrong.