Was reading a recent post about service writers, and saw lots of interesting dialogue about techs, writers, etc. and about people complaining about the cost of diagnosis and repairs.
So my subject question is for the writers...
I'm curious because I'm always daydreaming about buying something, and I maintain my cars and keep records. Lots of people don't bother. I just wonder how many cars on the road, by percentage, are of the "abused" category.
Most "normal" people will not spend money on a car until it fails to function for whatever they use it for, or a service writer threatens that situation in the definite near future(eg. interference timing belts). Or a state with some sort of inspection program forces them to repair it. If you're lucky the oil got changed at a quick lube every 4000-10000 miles with cheap dino oil and lowest bidder filters.
Case in point, how many automatic cars in the rust belt have working parking brakes? Ever know a non car person who had brake work done before things were metal on metal? Trans service before it starts acting up?
This is why I tell people to stick with American and Toyota for cheap used cars, they handle the abuse best (as they often have zero routine service obligations beyond fluid changes), and thus give you better odds of pulling them back from the brink and making a serviceable driver for a minimal amount of money.
Its amazing how neglectful people are to what is often their first or second largest asset.
95%
NOHOME wrote: 95%
That is probably a really accurate number.
Yeah that would be my guess. my parents kept their cars pretty well maintained, but I quickly discovered that wasn't the norm when I got to college. My most manly friend there (it had a music conservatory and a terrible fooball team, it was a nerd school) said all he does is "take it to the dealer when the number on the windshield says I should". And he was one of the better ones. My S-I-L called my wife once saying her 2008 corolla was running funny. My wife's first question was "when did you last change the oil?" which was met with "the what?". She had the car 3 years at that point, around 50k miles. Now the warranty is gone, but the car is with her brother. He's far away and not speaking to us. Problem solved.
99%
My daughter had her car towed to the house today, said she got to the gas station and it wouldn't start. I tightened up the battery cable and jumped it off with my truck, started fine. Then I heard the death rattle of hydraulic lifters running with no oil, sure enough when I shut it down and pulled out the dipstick, there was nothing on it. I got maybe a quart, if that, out of it when I drained the pan. She saw the low oil light on the dash but since the car still ran she didn't think anything was wrong. Put on a new filter and put in 5 quarts of fresh dino juice. Glad it's an old iron block 3800, I think I've seen one of those run on 3 cylinders with a broken crankshaft.. If you are not going to maintain a car, American cars are hard to beat, and the older Toyotas, those things just didn't die.
OHSCrifle wrote: Was reading a recent post about service writers, and saw lots of interesting dialogue about techs, writers, etc...
Your welcome 
I start Monday BTW.
In reply to 06HHR:
See what I mean? "It still moves, so it must be OK!" I once saw a wheel fall off a car in slow traffic where it must have been been noticeable, 20ft past a tire and lube shop....
There's three broad categories of owners: gearheads like us, non-gearheads who are still into their cars (mostly luxury car owners) and the 'appliance' drivers. I'd put gearheads at maybe 5% of the population and non-gearheads into their cars at maybe 10%, these two groups will properly maintain a car.
The remaining 85% of 'appliance' owners is hit or miss, mostly miss. The 'hits' in that group are generally the ones who seized an engine or transmission or other big ticket items due to their negligence. The 'misses' see their car as a necessary evil and they are by far the largest group.
They wait till things go bad and discover that the repair is much more that their more vigilant neighbor paid so now the shop and techs are thieves. I have people in this category who show up 4000 miles overdue for an oil change, the tires are feathered like hell due to lack of rotation and when I mention $14.95 (or even $9.95 with the coupon) they roll their eyes and decline. Some of these people are so bad about it that even the factory included maintenance is just too much of a chore. I mean, the damn maintenance is FREE for cryin' out loud and you just can't find the time? 
I would say about 90% of people who need new brake lines have never ever flushed their brake fluid. I wonder how people can survive on 10-15 year old brake fluid. Ditto for radiators.
I don't think people understand that you can save money in the long run by spending a little bit now.
I think the percentage is lower than one might think. Younger people have grown up in a world of cars that are pretty maintenance free, they have just developed to that point. I would think the older generation has more experience with cars that require a bit more attention throughout their life. I'd put the number at least as low as 60%, probably lower.
I'll relate my recent story...
When my mom passed, I drove my hooptie 600 miles home with only a few extra noises. I get home to see my dad, who generally upkeeps his vehicles better then most, and we take my mom's car out the next day to run some errands. Not more then 50' out of the driveway, I make mention of the AWFUL front end noise over bumps. Long story short, he took it to the garage to have them look at it, $2500 later it is all fixed. Of course, 4 new struts, swaybar links, lower control arm bushings, and balljoints on nearly every corner. As you see, my mom was in the gas and go segment.
I wouldn't be so quick to harp on only non-car people for lack of maintenance. I have seen plenty of "car guys" that don't do the proper maintenance. Working at a classic car repair shop, I have seen a lot of bad E36 M3.
singleslammer wrote:OHSCrifle wrote: Was reading a recent post about service writers, and saw lots of interesting dialogue about techs, writers, etc...Your welcome
Best of luck. New jobs are generally cool until the new wears off. I will be interested to hear how it goes.
Curmudgeon wrote: The remaining 85% of 'appliance' owners is hit or miss, mostly miss. The 'hits' in that group are generally the ones who seized an engine or transmission or other big ticket items due to their negligence. The 'misses' see their car as a necessary evil and they are by far the largest group.
I hate the thought of spending new car money, but the used car landscape is just so full of Probable landmines..
At least there are a few people out there diligently maintaining and keeping records, justifying the premium used car pricing that comes with it.
I fall in the middle … sorta … I'm diligent as hell about maintenance … but lousy at record keeping … much past remembering when the next issue needs to be taken care of .. after it's done I don't pigeon hole the paper work … that could come back to bite me when I go to sell my car 
Curmudgeon wrote: There's three broad categories of owners: gearheads like us, non-gearheads who are still into their cars (mostly luxury car owners) and the 'appliance' drivers.
My experience has the luxury car owners as the WORST. They either don't give a crap as long as the car still moves under its own power or they are nervous and afraid of every little thing because they don't understand.
I'd say BMW owners have the largest dichotomy between the "still moves - don't care" mindset and the "OMG what is WRONG HELP ME PLEEEEZ" mindset. Which is strikingly odd, because BMW also attracts the most car-guy types.
My favorites include the E39 owner who had slicks-bald tires (in December) and an inoperative speedometer/odometer/fuel gauge. The fuel gauge died first so they filled up based off of odometer. Then that died. They didn't want to pay for diagnosis, and wanted us to just throw parts at it, and didn't understand that we couldn't guarantee that a $1200 instrument cluster was the problem and we'd have to actually check sending units and sensors to be sure. "But that costs MONEY that doesn't go towards making the car fixed!"
It was hilarious trying to move the car, too. It would get stuck on a flat, plowed parking lot.
Flip side is an E60 that came in multiple times for a charging system light. Months later, we finally get the information that "intermittent" means "any time the ignition is on but the engine is not running."
I guess I should clarify. Luxury car owners can be split into two broad groups, those who have the extra income to buy the pimpwagon and also properly maintain it.
The second group has spent every dime they had just getting into the thing so they can stroke their egos and it's all they can do to scrape together the money to change the oil which is typically done WAY past the max interval. I had a customer at the Mercedes shop who would run her E320 continually to about 20k on an oil change 
(~13k is the max) and come by to have oil added when the low oil light would come on. She had bought the car used and was obviously not financially well off but man she tried to look like she was.
Mind you, I work at an independent so we'll have differing experiences, to be sure.
But yes, that does seem to be the way things go - you get the "status symbol - want to keep it perfect but damn I have no idea what I'm doing" people, vs. the "status symbol, have to have this to impress the neighbors but damn I have nowhere near enough money to do it right" people.
Guy I work with wonders what their houses look like. Impressive on the outside but no furniture, probably. "A house full of condiments and no real food."
Imagine how many appliances will survive when they can self-drive themselves in for service at the required intervals...
I don't know if it's a good thing or not but the amount of maintenance required on modern cars is almost nothing. I mean what do you have to do? Change the fluids and filters occasionally? Brakes and tires?
I miss the days of valve lash adjustments, constantly setting points, plugs every 5,000 miles, greasing ball joints, tie rod ends, idler arms, drag and center links, U-joints and upper and lower control arm bushings. What about manually adjusting rear drum brakes? What about all the fun of re-packing the wheels bearings every time the front brakes are changed? Really miss those days.
Meh, the overwhelming majority of new car buyers keep up with maintenance pretty well. Maybe they get in the habit when the car is still in-warranty and it's just inertia?
Some used car buyers are pretty good, though I had to laugh at Rufledt's assumption that good maintenance habits correlate with manliness. The best non-car-guy maintainers are old people generally (not much difference between genders honestly) and what I'll call "thrifty" people. Maybe there is a better word, but there is a type of person who is sort of rationally, thoughtfully cheap. I'm not talking about people that put gas in their cars $5 at a time or people who run tires till they're bald, I'm talking about the consumer reports reader type that is just careful about spending and saving. These people are great maintainers, following the maintenance intervals to the letter.
That said, most used car buyers do oil changes and that's about it. Especially if it's under $10k and not an enthusiast car. Of course, Chevies, Toyotas, Hondas, etc. can tolerate this abuse. It's when the car in question is of European origin that the cars goes to E36 M3 in a hurry.
Mmadness wrote: I would say about 90% of people who need new brake lines have never ever flushed their brake fluid. I wonder how people can survive on 10-15 year old brake fluid. Ditto for radiators. I don't think people understand that you can save money in the long run by spending a little bit now.
this made me LOL because i'm guilty. I JUST replaced the original radiator on my 1987 Econoline. It wasn't even leaking or anything, i wasn't having overheating issues, it just looked like utter hell.
Seriously, the radiator appeared to be held together by corrosion and prayer.
The front looked fine, so did the top and bottom, but when the fan shroud came off for a water heater and hose replacement (which were actually leaking, the hose also being original), wow.
In reply to Rufledt:
Something about reading that made me realize GM made dex cool orange so you couldn't see the rust floating in it.
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