What would GRM do - CPA question

I'm in a bit of a pickle here, fortunately not (yet) of the "IRS breaking down the door" kind.

As my wife's and my tax affairs were a little complicated last year due to my immigration into the US, we decided to hire a pro to do our taxes, what with foreign income, split year tax liability and all that. And that's pro as in proper CPA, not some H&R Block tax form filler.

Now I'm not exactly unfamiliar with hiring an accountant, having run a couple of businesses over the years and I had done some research already. So I figured that I should be able to interview someone and get a good feel if they're competent enough or not.

In the end we settled for someone who also happened to be endorsed by a certain nationwide personal finance talkshow host and who had dealt with this sort of issues before.

Due to some delay in getting documents out of the UK, we handed it him the pile o' receipts and forms mid-March. Tax day comes around and he lets us know he would need to file an extension for us because he was snowed under and needs to do additional research. He assures me that this wouldn't be an issue as he doesn't expect us to have to pay any additional taxes over and above the withholdings.

Sometime in May the tax returns were supposed to be done in 2-3 weeks. Silence. In June I had to contact him again for some advice because the FBAR forms[1] were due at the end of the month and I had some questions. At that point, communications (which had been a problem due to staffing levels) were prompt and everything looked up. Tax returns supposedly done in 2-3 weeks.

It's August now, the last email as to when the tax returns would be done went unanswered and nobody picked up the phone yesterday during business hours. That's not too unusual (staffing levels again) but I'm beginning to have a bit of an old fashioned German shouty fit about this issue.

Before my blood pressure rises to levels that would drain my HSA, is this standard operating procedure when you deal with a small business CPA? I've run small businesses so I know that sometimes you just get buried with work and other times you wish you would be...

And the other question - WWGRMD? Pay the CPA for his troubles so far and take the business elsewhere? Wander into his office (again) and set him a firm date, politely explaining that I expect the tax returns to be done by then, otherwise it's time to find another CPA?

I also have the nagging feeling that I might want to call the IRS to check that he hasn't forgotten to file the extension, but then again I don't like to have to second guess professionals who I try to pay to provide a service for me.

Call Dave's (or Howard's) show and complain about their endorsed provider!

Is he local? If so go and knock on the door. Otherwise I got nothin.

fastEddie wrote: Call Dave's (or Howard's) show and complain about their endorsed provider!

Well, that's kinda sorta the nuclear option I would prefer not to take. Even if it doesn't always show I'm trying to be a nice guy .

mtn wrote: Is he local? If so go and knock on the door. Otherwise I got nothin.

That's the plan for next week. He's local enough that I can drop by his office on the way to work and my boss already knows about the issues I'm having here.

There is a certain inability to drive a phone around here when it comes to you as a consumer getting anything from a business. Basically, people don't seem to have discovered that you can actually make phone calls on a business line and not only receive them...

Knock on the door, certainly. If you don't have this all worked out in a week, get all your stuff back (I hope you made copies of it all) and find someone else ASAP. Next, go nuclear with reporting to Dave. I bet he wants to hear stuff like that. In fact, he says he does on the show.

I didn't make copies of it unfortunately - lesson learned for next year.

I guess I'll drop by early next week and try to get a fixed date out of him to sort this out. Depending on how that goes I'll consider other options.

I'm certainly not a CPA, but I've dealt with a few. Here's how it works with my guy: If I drop off our stuff in mid-march, there's not a snowball's chance in hell I won't have to file for an extension. Now, I know this up front, and he basically tells me he'll get to it when he can. We did just that (dropped off in March this year) and our business return was done 2 weeks ago, and that's with 2 extremely well organized binders, not a stack of receipts and a "You figure it out." Personal returns are not done yet. He's good at what he does, and I want him to take his sweet time.

The big mistake your guy made was saying "I'll have it in a couple weeks." Personally, I like to have those kind of conversations via email. If someone comes in my shop saying "Yeah, but you told me (blank) six months ago...." I'll either laugh or tell them to get berkeleyed. I don't know what I had for breakfast yesterday. much less a months' old conversation.

I'd send him an email. "I contacted you on these dates...." nature of the conversation, etc., and be really cool with the tone. Pretty sure you don't want to start from square one, so just be cool and let him know you're disappointed in the lack of communication. If THAT doesn't get a response, then show up at the office.

Is there any reason you're being so secretive about what radio show "endorses" this guy? FWIW, if whoever this is does ANY kind of PAID endorsements, his recommendations don't mean E36 M3.

Also, I'd check with the CPA to be SURE that the extension was approved. We received a letter in the mail saying ours was approved, and thank god we did, because the berkeleying IRS came back a couple months ago threatening to levy our assets because they "didn't have any record" of our filing an extension. Accountant handled it for us @ no charge.

Best of luck!

poopshovel wrote: I'm certainly not a CPA, but I've dealt with a few. Here's how it works with my guy: If I drop off our stuff in mid-march, there's not a snowball's chance in hell I won't have to file for an extension. Now, I know this up front, and he basically tells me he'll get to it when he can. We did just that (dropped off in March this year) and our business return was done 2 weeks ago, and that's with 2 extremely well organized binders, not a stack of receipts and a "You figure it out." Personal returns are not done yet. He's good at what he does, and I want him to take his sweet time.

That's cool with me too - just tell me when it's done and don't string me along. I'm happy to wait and pay for good advice.

poopshovel wrote: The big mistake your guy made was saying "I'll have it in a couple weeks." Personally, I like to have those kind of conversations via email. If someone comes in my shop saying "Yeah, but you told me (blank) six months ago...." I'll either laugh or tell them to get berkeleyed. I don't know what I had for breakfast yesterday. much less a months' old conversation.

That would be generally useful if I could get a timely email response out of him.

poopshovel wrote: Is there any reason you're being so secretive about what radio show "endorses" this guy? FWIW, if whoever this is does ANY kind of PAID endorsements, his recommendations don't mean E36 M3.

Because it'll be very easy to figure out who I am talking about if I pointed out who the endorser is - there aren't that people many around here who'd qualify.

poopshovel wrote: Also, I'd check with the CPA to be SURE that the extension was approved. We received a letter in the mail saying ours was approved, and thank god we did, because the berkeleying IRS came back a couple months ago threatening to levy our assets because they "didn't have any record" of our filing an extension. Accountant handled it for us @ no charge.

Just for the uninformed foreigner here - was that the IRS or the accountant sending you that? Because if it was the IRS and they're supposed to sned you one, someone's going to get an earful on Monday.

I assume the IRS could tell me if the extension has been filed and approved if I called them? Not that I want to at the moment, sleeping dogs and all that, but it might be useful.

Definitely agree. No one wants to be strung along. He screwed up there. I just wouldn't go reading him the riot act just yet. Let him know you're disappointed that he keeps making promises he can't keep.

What I'm saying is, why are you worried about saying the talk show host's name? I could understand if you were saying he's an animal rapist or something, but I don't think you need to worry about a slander suit just because you said "So and so endorses this crappy accountant." Even if it's easy to say "Ah, it's so and so, the guy blah blah blah endorses," I don't think I'd worry about all that. Again, TV/radio people endorse a bunch of garbage they have not and never will use, which is why, when it comes to the "financial advice" shows, I like Clark Howard. 0 endorsements.

It's an IRS document that we received. I can't remember if it went to the accountant and then to us, or if came directly to us, but basically had "Extension Approved" stamped all over it, which was our only evidence when they said "Extension? What extension?" berkeleying extorsionists. I'd DEFINITELY let sleeping dogs lie when it comes to them. I believe I'd ask the accountant for SOMETHING saying the extension was approved.

This is getting patently ridiculous by now.

The tax returns were finally supposed to be done today, just in time for the end of the extension.

Guess who sent me an email in the middle of the night that due to IT-related problems, he will have to postpone our appointment?

I have the vague feeling I'll need another CPA for the 2011 return...

In reply to BoxheadTim:

Yeah, dump him. If your business was important to him, this would not have happened.

I am a CPA. It certainly isn't standard practice to blow people off, ignore calls, etc.

In reply to Otto Maddox:

I hear you.

This area seems to be full of small businesses that have trouble picking up the phone and calling you back if/when you want to give them money, so I attributed part of that to "local idiosyncracies". That, and a genuine staff shortage at his place.

Either way it looks like I'll be on the lookout for another CPA. Any recommendations what to look for and where? Due to the overseas income and expense (my currently rented out house in the UK), what should be a simple tax return isn't that simple so going to the usual tax "mills" is out of the question until I sell the house.

You're way past the time to call and complain to that talk-show host. The only one that comes to mind is Dave Ramsey as Clark Howard genuinely avoids making personal endorsements.

Your CPA is obviously not doing his job; it's time to make sure Ramsey is doing his, too.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

Any chance you can do it yourself? It will take you a lot more time, but then again you care a lot more about getting it right.

But you are right about the tax mills. They pick up anybody they can find, give them a short training course, and then set them loose on society. At least your CPAs are credentialed and educated. Some of them suck anyway. And it hard to find one with significant experience doing overseas taxes. We prefer to fill out the same forms over and over. It is boring but profitable. Doing a foreign return almost always requires some reading and research, meaning usually a lot of time that we can't really bill to the client.

In reply to Otto Maddox:

One of the reasons I chose this CPA is because he has experience with overseas taxes/income and already has several customers with the same issues that I have.

I'll probably look into doing it myself but I'm not that convinced I can do a good job given that I have had quite a lot of overseas house-related expense this year.

One of the reasons for hiring a CPA was to get rid of a headache. Didn't quite work.

On a positive note, I got an email from him that his office is up and running again, the tax return is done and all we have to do is sign it. We're even getting a few hundred bucks back from the government...

In reply to BoxheadTim:

Congrats on the less-than-timely, positive resolution.

So, is your CPA also offering a substantial fee discount on your next return? Seems only fair because of his service level on this go 'round.

I'll ask him when I talk to him about that...

It seems to be common practise around here to delay the personal tax returns of people who are likely to get a refund rather than have to pay to the end of the extension period mid-October. I'm not the only one at work in that situation.