what's machine work worth?

I've got access to a Bridgeport vertical mill, lathe, and surface grinder. All manual.

I know part of the "machine shop experience" is showing up at the cool, noisy place, leaning on the greasy counter, and shooting the gab with the machine guys.

However, what would it be worth if machine work could be mail-ordered? Ordered online?

There's virtually nothing that could be made that I couldn't ship, but I realize the average guy needing tractor parts probably won't be interested.

Any market?

FIND a market to fill with a product you can make. The other way around you're in competition with all the machine shops people can simply walk in and explain what they want done.

You might also want to walk into some of those machine shops and see if you can be a sub-contractor for their work. Ditto an auto/bike restoration shop.

SVreX wrote: I've got access to a Bridgeport vertical mill, lathe, and surface grinder. All manual. I know part of the "machine shop experience" is showing up at the cool, noisy place, leaning on the greasy counter, and shooting the gab with the machine guys. However, what would it be worth if machine work could be mail-ordered? Ordered online? There's virtually nothing that could be made that I couldn't ship, but I realize the average guy needing tractor parts probably won't be interested. Any market?

One consideration is what aux equipment is needed for the task, and how long your "set-up" can remain on a machine. If you are only doing custom one-sie, two-sie stuff it may not be too bad, but what if you need to do 20 or more of something that begins to tie up the machine. BTDT ! if you work in the shop and wanted to do "Government Work" on the side, people crab about it big time. If you think a professional mechanic has an expensive tool box, look at what a long term Tool & Die / Moldmaker amasses...

Good Luck !

There's only one US source for race quality triumph tr4/4a hubs/spindles and limited availability. Small group of buyers, but find a few niches like that (front hub setup goes for about $700 for the pair with bearings installed).

I think the hard-expensive part would be shipping. Most people don't want to pay for machining let alone shipping it to and from. Doing engine work? NAPA and other shops are tooled up with the jigs and fixtures needed to machine SBC, SBF etc. Doing other engines, Brit or whatevers, would take more set up time but doable.

If you machine a part from scratch, would you have access to heat treatment?

I'm a toolmaker that did prototype and R&E Army weapons. I helped my friend set up his shop and one of the things I saw was a guy that played middle man. He knew that Zach's did a lot of lathe work but hated grinding. Bert & Ernie's down by the river did a lot of small complex widgets because they had CNC equipment, but a train tire on a lathe, send it somewhere else. This "middle man" moved work from one shop to another, brought stuff in the door and kept an eye on the ebb and flow. He didn't do it as a public service, there was money involved, but without him sending work your way, you wouldn't have the work. You just pay it as a finder's fee.

Triumph5 had a good suggestion, go check out someone else's shop. He may throw you a bone or point you in the right direction. He may also tell you to take up bowling because this business is not easy.

Good luck,

Dan

I'll echo the thoughts so far. Find the need and fill it yourself. There was a guy that built motor mounts for 83-88 Ford Thunderbird's and Mercury Cougar's for example. FoMoCo used 3 different subframes/designs for the mounts, plus 3 different engines, so no aftermarket company made the parts at all. He found the niche and did very well with it.

You'd make a killing on SA/FB RX-7 rotors and axles designed for 4x100 or 5x4.5 for example...

It's looks like you could make a killing just hanging out here.....

Javelin wrote: I'll echo the thoughts so far. Find the need and fill it yourself.

Agreed. Find a niche , fill it, then find another, and so on. Before you know it, you'll have more work than you can handle.

I used to do S10 V8 motor mounts back when it just started to become popular. There were a few companies doing them, but by the time you got them in your hands, they were expensive. I incorporated the best ideas from all of them, made them buy hand, and sold them direct. With the internet, and model specific forums, that's easier than ever now.

Been doing the Metro thing for almost 10 years now and it's busier than it's ever been.

You guys are addressing some of the business model questions, and I agree completely. I am much more interested in finding a market than being a small walk-in shop that can do everything.

I'm also a little different because I am not afraid to invest in a business. If there is enough business, I have no problem automating, paying finder's fees, etc. If a guy asked for a one-off of a part that obviously had larger market appeal, I'm the guy that would offer him the lower "bulk" price, run off 25 similar parts, shelve them, and sell them off the shelf.

I'm pretty confidant I could beat the normal price for machine work, but not offer as wide a variety of capabilities, and deliver to niche markets. That should get me in the right price range, even with shipping. Unlikely I'd do engine work- definitely not SBC's etc.

But, I am curious if anyone has thoughts on the value. Perhaps that's hard to quantify. But I'm betting the going rates are higher in most parts of the country than here. Of course, it doesn't matter if people simply won't buy mail order (which is one opinion on the value).

Another thought, and you'd be a bit ahead of the curve on this: any marinas nearby? As a former and some-time marine mechanic, during spring commissioning, there were always parts that snapped, broke, needed to be reemed, milled, etc...and they were often $$$ to completely replace. Now if you make some visits, spread around some inexpensive business cards, you'd probably get some business.

Also business cards left at the local laundramat would probably get you some business. It's all about marketing yourself, and being honest with how much you're willing to do this.

What do you do with Metros, woof?

4 x100 Spitfire hubs.

Value? Hard to say... I suppose it really depends on how long it takes to make a given part and the cost of the raw materials. Guarantees that it will fit?

A VW guy was cranking about the price of undersized pulleys for his supercharger. Hell with a bar of aluminum, a form tool and a tick of annodize, I could retire!

Dan

I got some fiat hubs I would love in 4x100

You might consider getting some liability insurance.

Ian F wrote: 4 x100 Spitfire hubs. Value? Hard to say... I suppose it really depends on how long it takes to make a given part and the cost of the raw materials. Guarantees that it will fit?

Interesting question...

...Considering that my goal is niche markets and not one-offs, I would certainly want to know that it fit well. Of course, that could depend a lot on how the info was given to me. If it was based on measurements given by the customer, there is no way I could guarantee the fit, only that it met the requested dimensions. It is also likely that I would rarely have the car (or other component) that the part fit on. So, I'd want to do the best I could to come up with a fair policy that was beneficial to everyone with the ultimate goal of a great part. Perhaps a two part approach to a guarantee- the latitude for guaranteeing the fit of a prototype would be narrower than a production part.

Thoughts?

SVreX wrote: What do you do with Metros, woof?

It started out as performance cams for the 3 cylinder motor (I had my own turbo 3 at the time), then performance cylinder head pkgs., and just before gas got expensive, I came out with an 'econo' cylinder head pkg. You can guess how that worked out.

I have my own line of stock replacement , and oversize SS, valves, as well as a few other things. In the beginning, I had a few other parts, and products in the works, but thought there was significant risk of losing my development money, so I dropped them. I was wrong. If I had followed through, I would have done well on all of it.

02again link

Find an older car with a cult-like following and make machined parts to make the conversion from carb to Megasquirt/Megajolt easier. A bracket for the VR sensor, a distributor plug. Maybe a bracket or an adapter to utilize a common TPS sensor on a specific throttle body. An adapter to mount that throttle body to an available intake manifold that is from a later version of the car and makes an easy conversion to EFI. Maybe a throttle linkage/cable/bracket/whatever to adapt the throttle to the throttle body. Trigger wheels, or even better yet, all new pulleys with trigger wheels. This idea is already being done for BMW 2002's - not sure about other cars. Seems like if you could develop something similar for cars with cult-like followings, but unmet needs then it could work. Other ideas: adapters to upgrade the brakes on an older car with something from a new newer car. Short shift kits. If you find the niche and make stuff that is not too expensive and are willing to store parts until they are sold, I think it would/could work.

If I wanted something totally custom made just to my specifications I would want to stay local. I'd want to talk to the guy and stand at the greasy counter.

For a part on a car that you don't have access to - work with customer number one to help refine the design and test the fit/ease of installation/get feedback on suggested improvements. Then when he or she is completely satisfied, let them spread the word via the internets. Once the word gets out that a particular supplier does good work/makes good parts/is not fly by night/can be trusted you could get the business of an online community.

Need a car with a cult-like following, but not one that is so popular that you would be competing with large established companies. It would also help if that car had it's owm dedicated corner of the internet with a forum.

With any business you have to be able to pay for the raw materials, cover the overhead costs, and then make some money on top of that.

So you have access to machines - do they belong to someone else? Do you have to pay rental time, or can you use them for free? Who pays for the electricity to run them, for the maintenance when they break down, for supplies and consumables (coolant, lubricants, drill bits, rags, etc.), for the heat and lights and insurance for the building they are in?

edit: One other thought. Figure out what the market will bear for these kinds of services, and set your rates so they're competitive but not so cheap that you're not making money. For instance, if someone has a part they say would cost them $200 to have built somewhere else but you say you can build it for only $50, that means you left $149 on the table.

And you could be driving away a customer. It's been shown time after time, that if an item is preceived as being too inexpensive, it will not sell as well as the same item priced higher.

It's going to be tough to beat some of the existing services for custom machine work. 5-day turnaround CNC work is available if you've got a CAD drawing.

It seems like the design is where the money is. Like others have said, if you find the right niche you might do very well. There's a sweet spot where you'll have enough customers to make it worth your time, but not so many that some machine shop in China would notice and want to make a buck there too.

I know there's probably at least two dozen guys racing 1.6 Miata's in STS that need UD pulleys too...

stuart in mn wrote: So you have access to machines - do they belong to someone else? Do you have to pay rental time, or can you use them for free? Who pays for the electricity to run them, for the maintenance when they break down, for supplies and consumables (coolant, lubricants, drill bits, rags, etc.), for the heat and lights and insurance for the building they are in?

That's a little complicated- a machinist friend has his equipment and tooling in storage, and would like it to be usable. I've got a shop with some space that could be dedicated to it. He only needs it part time for small side jobs. The deal would be he gets free rent, I get use of the equipment for 40 hours per week if I want. Additionally, he's willing to help if I need it, and I've also got space to expand to some automated equipment, if needed.

My shop costs are already paid for. I'm thinking of it as a new, low cost revenue stream.