Whats with the shootings?

rotard wrote:

PHeller wrote:

rebelgtp wrote: He was shocked the gun was loaded and was thankful I was the one to find out instead of someone else by firing off a round. True story.

Good Lord.... It scares me how careless folks can be with guns. I've been poked fun at for pointing an unloaded gun at the ground when handed to me. The owner says "no worries, man, it's unloaded" to which I responded "I don't go waving guns around, sir."

It's your responsibility to check any firearm that's handed to you. Ultimately, anything that happens once a weapon is in your hands is your responsibility.

this times eleventybillion.

Always check weapons handed to you, always maintain barrel discipline(as in never point the weapon in any direction of something you don't want to shoot, loaded or not), etc.....

In reply to rotard:

My cousins are prime examples of this. When my grandmother died we were all at her place cleaning it up and boxing up everything. One of my cousins (late 20's at the time) opened grandma's nightstand drawer and found her pistol. He became completely terrified as did his brother. This was the conditioning instilled in them by their mother, guns are something to be feared. I go in, empty the cylinder and get back to work. Of all the grandchildren I am the one that ended up with it.

Why are we reiterating something that is understood?

The reason I was pointing the gun at the ground was because of these safety measures. The guy who handed me the gun was actually a gun nut, and I was really surprised that he made the comment.

It was almost like he saying "I know guns better than you and I know this gun is unloaded". In any case, as RebelGT mentioned, even someone who spend their whole life around guns can't guaranteeing that it isn't loaded.

I've also been known not to point fake guns at people, just to reinforce the habit.

PHeller wrote: Why are we reiterating something that is understood? The reason I was pointing the gun at the ground was because of these safety measures. The guy who handed me the gun was actually a gun nut, and I was really surprised that he made the comment. It was almost like he saying "I know guns better than you and I know this gun is unloaded". In any case, as RebelGT mentioned, even someone who spend their whole life around guns can't guaranteeing that it isn't loaded. I've also been known not to point fake guns at people, just to reinforce the habit.

cool the britches down, theres a delay between posts.........

In reply to PHeller:

Please do not take offense. I believe everyone is simply reinforcing that golden rule of gun handling and the comments are not directed specifically at you.

IMHO the problem comes down to things, bad parenting and education. There is so many people who shouldn't have kids and are raising little hellions rather then decent law obeying people. Then our education is falling so far behind the rest of the world because of mismanagement and underpayed teachers especially at the high school level in math and science. The simple matter is we are wasting money on standardized testing and other crap like that and not allowing any creative thought within the classroom cause you have to teach to a standard. Then we aren't paying teachers enough to attract enough top quality people into the profession especially at the high school level. Very few people in their right mind would get a degree in math or physics or biology and go work in school when you could get payed much more then that to work in the private industry. I think education should be the number one thing that state governments do (note I said state government not federal government). The bad parenting and poor education leads to a dangerous combination of helpless and not knowing what is right and wrong which has much more to do with the violence then anything else plus I really believe the media blows it up a lot more to get ratings.

Also I agree that you should have to take gun safety courses as long as it isn't through the government because what is stopping the government from requiring gun safety courses through them and then just trying to price people out being able to buy guns.

I don't own any "real" guns myself. Have a couple of paintball guns, and airsoft pistol, and I just inherited a pelet rifle. But I want my wife and kids (6 and 8) to know how to handle a gun if they ever cross paths. Wife and I took a class at a local range and my kids get taught VERY seriously with the airsoft. I strongly push the theory of the barrel always is pointed downrange or at the ground. I don't care if it's "not loaded" or just a plastic BB. You never know when a dumb friend has even dumber parents that would leave a gun accessible.

Not sure what any of this has to do with the recent mass shootings. "Accidental" gun deaths are easily avoided. This is more of a case of the wrong people having access to guns. I never had intrest in owning a gun, but if they had open carry laws in CA, I would be in line right now.

I literally live one block from the CO shooter's parents house, so I was in the middle of the media frenzy. About a week after that E36 M3 went down we had a police chopper circling our neighborhood for hours. Eventually they got on the PA and announced something of "suicidal male" and some other garble. berkeley! Really? All doors and windows got locked and I was waiting for my wife in the driveway to escort her inside when she got home. I would have felt much safer with a sidearm...which is bullE36 M3. Why should I "need" a gun to go to the berkeleying store or walk my kids to school?

Regulation, laws, education..I don't care. This country needs to have a real discussion about what to do, without the NRA screaming about "cold, dead hands" or the ACLU banning all weapons. Something is broken and we need to fix it with out a bunch of hyporbele.

93EXCivic wrote: IMHO the problem comes down to things, bad parenting and education. There is so many people who shouldn't have kids and are raising little hellions rather then decent law obeying people.

So your advocating for free birth control? Maybe even a discussion about Plan-B drugs?

I don't know if that would solve the problem of the genius kid who wants to be the Joker and the ex-Army drunk who thinks Sikhs are terrorists.

PHeller wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: IMHO the problem comes down to things, bad parenting and education. There is so many people who shouldn't have kids and are raising little hellions rather then decent law obeying people.

So your advocating for free birth control? Maybe even a discussion about Plan-B drugs? I don't know if that would solve the problem of the genius kid who wants to be the Joker and the ex-Army drunk who thinks Sikhs are terrorists.

Theres a pretty big gap between blaming bad parenting and advocating free birth control, but if we're going to discuss it, I'm all for cheaper birth control including plan B.

As for solving the problem with the genius kid, you probably already know my answer.

PHeller wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: IMHO the problem comes down to things, bad parenting and education. There is so many people who shouldn't have kids and are raising little hellions rather then decent law obeying people.

So your advocating for free birth control? Maybe even a discussion about Plan-B drugs? I don't know if that would solve the problem of the genius kid who wants to be the Joker and the ex-Army drunk who thinks Sikhs are terrorists.

I would have no problem with either of those things (free birth control and Plan-B drugs being available). And yes I believe education and better parenting could have prevented at least the second thing.

Interesting how thse types of discussions get side tracked and neither side can see the utter futility of their arguments.

There always have been and always will be mentally unstable people. I am sure that many of us know people who at times have had suicidal thoughts. What if those people instead of thinking that they can't cope with the situation decide that it is "someone elses fault"?

Also I don't understand how anyone on this forum could advocate confiscating firearms. The very fact that you are this forum and the nature of this forum tells me that everyone of you has the skills to make an "improvised firearm". So how can you say that confiscating fireamrs will solve the problem?

Most people don't have the skills or know-how to make thier own firearms. Not too sure how many mass killings were perpetrated with a zip gun or shiv anyway.

Great, now the big gov't is going to put us all on "the list" because GRM'rs are all capable of making such weapons.

My dad had plans and built a .22 gatling gun that ran on a vacuum cleaner motor. LOL Said it would go through a box of 500 rnds in less than a minute. NO that's not why he's in prison. LOL

Did someone actually say confiscate firearms?

Otto Maddox wrote: Did someone actually say confiscate firearms?

Nope

Otto Maddox wrote: Did someone actually say confiscate firearms?

I suscribe to the "black helicopter theory" . If someone tells me they want to control what I get they probably want to take away what I already have.

Hal wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: Did someone actually say confiscate firearms?

I suscribe to the "black helicopter theory" . If someone tells me they want to control what I get they probably want to take away what I already have.

Which is why, as a nation or forum, we just can't have a logical conversation about how to fix our problems.

Nobody has to say "confiscate firearms" for that to be what's at issue here. They use nice sounding buzz words like "meaningful/rational gun control laws." The simple fact is, the only way you can have any sort of measurable impact on gun crime is to have a large scale confiscation policy. Otherwise, there is simply too much "water under the bridge." Take a look at "the Joker" for example. Everyone makes a big deal of the fact that he purchased his weapons legally. The simple fact is in about 30 minutes, I could put together an equally effective arsenal off from the classified adds in the paper, a gun show, borrowed from friends or off from certain street corners (where they would have the added bonus of being untraceable). And all that at about a third of the amount of the taxpayer's "college money" our orange-haired genius spent on his. Guns are everywhere, they are cheap and only by house to house confiscation could you take enough of them off of the proverbial "streets" to have any impact. Any lesser measure only drives up demand and prices for legitimate buyers. Crazies and crooks will always have theirs, unless you conduct a literal house to house search across the entire country. So you don't have to say confiscation, but if you don't, you're either being dishonest about your plans or proposing something that will have no impact at all, except on law abiding citizens.

Cone_Junky wrote: Most people don't have the skills or know-how to make thier own firearms. Not too sure how many mass killings were perpetrated with a zip gun or shiv anyway. Great, now the big gov't is going to put us all on "the list" because GRM'rs are all capable of making such weapons.

Some of the biggest mass murders in the US have involved:

... a can of gasoline.

... fertilizer.

and boxcutters.

It doesn't take much beyond a twisted mind.

The confiscation of firearms "issue" is similar to the deportation of all illegal immigrants "issue". As noted, that horse has left the gate LONG ago. There is just no way either is going to happen. It is both practical issue (the process would be almost impossible) as well as a political non-starter (there is no way you would get enough support for either).

Whether you believe the US would be safer without private gun ownership or not, it is a mute issue. No sense putting much thought into it.

kazoospec wrote: So you don't have to say confiscation, but if you don't, you're either being dishonest about your plans or proposing something that will have no impact at all, except on law abiding citizens.

Quoted for truth. Blunt and to the point. You are absolutely correct sir.

Conquest351 wrote: My dad had plans and built a .22 gatling gun that ran on a vacuum cleaner motor. LOL Said it would go through a box of 500 rnds in less than a minute. NO that's not why he's in prison. LOL

I remember seeing a similar 22 gatling at a gunshow one time the instead it used the starter motor from a Pinto. There are plans you can easily obtain online to build an AR15 lower from sandwiched aluminum plates. Basically the only tools needed are a dremil and a drill press. An AK receiver is fairly basic as well.

If it ever got to a confiscation level I am worried that it could possibly mean another war on our soil. There is no way there is enough man power in the government and local law enforcement to pull something like this. In that situation the UN would more than likely offer up troops to help accomplish this and that would cause shooting on both sides.

Re: Gun safety - my neighbor stopped liking me when, while showing me his new pea shooter, after warning him a couple times, I finally said "If you point that berkeleying thing at me one more time, I'm going to snatch it out of your hand and beat you to death with it." He still didn't get it.

aircooled wrote: The confiscation of firearms "issue" is similar to the deportation of all illegal immigrants "issue". As noted, that horse has left the gate LONG ago. There is just no way either is going to happen. It is both practical issue (the process would be almost impossible) as well as a political non-starter (there is no way you would get enough support for either). Whether you believe the US would be safer without private gun ownership or not, it is a mute issue. No sense putting much thought into it.

Elect me tomorrow, and I'll have every illegal out of the country in five years, with very little cost to the taxpayer. But that's another thread.

poopshovel wrote: Re: Gun safety - my neighbor stopped liking me when, while showing me his new pea shooter, after warning him a couple times, I finally said "If you point that berkeleying thing at me one more time, I'm going to snatch it out of your hand and beat you to death with it." He still didn't get it.

This made me chuckles. Thing is I can see myself doing the same thing.

One issue that I am afraid we will start seeing is more accidental shootings because in the last year there have been more people purchasing firearms for the first time than there have been in the past. Many of these people do not have any experience with a gun of any sort and have no ideas about the safety guidelines many of the long time owners follow.

When SWMBO went in for her conceal carry class the instructor asked how many people in the class had just or were planning to buy their first ever firearm just about every one in the class raised their hand. Many had never even fired one before. These were not young people either most in the class were over 35. The instructor strongly suggested each of them take the safety courses and some range time before completing their permit application.