When is it time to panic

In reply to wae :

Our agency is very strict about us wearing masks and have almost full compliance among front line employees.  I wear mine all day as I'm dealing with the public and as an example which should be expected of everyone on the government's payroll.  The worst offenders here seem to be PD. EMS is obviously super careful, FD is not far behind, but PD rarely has them. The twitter vigilantes are quick to report them and this is one instance I generally agree, especially after every agency spent a fair sum of money and effort making sure they were readily available.  In return for Covid being treated as a line of duty injury following safety regs should be mandatory and they can't be surprised to be called out on it. 

PD not wearing masks seems to be a trend, I have seen various pics of it.

It does not appear to be a US only thing though.  There is evidence of lax behavior in Europe.  The Nordic countries clearly are not into masks.  Spain has an issue with tourists and I have even seen a pic of a wild unmasked party in Germany.  Not much reporting on this that I know, so hard to tell the extent.

I suspect next month, pretty much vacation month in much of Europe, might result in a sizable uptick.  Spain and France are already seeing minor rises.

Some people everywhere, it appears, are getting fatigued with compliance. 

It appears many bar owners in Texas will not comply with the closure order.  Bars of course are almost a perfect spreading environment.  A number of very large group "Gatherings" in the streets still happening (as with the bars, I suspect this has a lot to do with wanted to do something.... anything....).

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

They weren't wearing masks at home, nor do we use them in the office since we don't work on top of each other. A little common sense and a understanding of how viruses transmit will do more to stop the spread than blindly wearing masks. Masks don't work if you don't take the time to clean common surfaces and your hands on a regular basis. 

If the powers that be had started out with a educational mind set rather than a do as you are told mind set, we probably wouldn't be where we are now. The general public would understand what was happening and how to stop it. But there was zero chance of that happening. Being condescending and bossy is much more fun.

That is exactly why I don't like the knee jerk response of "Wear a mask! Wear a mask! Wear a mask!" There is a time and place that a mask will help some. But not as much as the "public" proclaim.

The "up-tick" has finally made it to my area. So far, all of the people, that I personally know, that have gotten it, are all people that are diligent about wearing masks. No deaths, thankfully. A friend died last week, in a hospital, due to a non covid lung problem, so I'm sure he's has been marked as a statistic...

bobzilla said:

In reply to Recon1342 :

Has your body got to the point of feeling like you were hit by a dump truck, followed by a bus and then a couple pickups yet? Once you hit that point you're in your way back up. I think that first 2 days I was awake maybe 4 hours total, like truly coherent and doing something. 

Thanks, Bob. Yeah, I'm on the mend. Up and able to do things today. Went over to the renovation property (by myself, all masked up) and got tape and texture done in the kitchen (very slowly, with lots of breaks). Only took me about 4 hours; then I came home and took a nap. 

In reply to 03Panther :

I don't know that knee jerk is the correct term, but wearing a mask is not a be all end all fix. They won't help if you open the convenience store door and promptly stick your booger hooks under the mask and pick your nose.

Keeping distance from strangers. Washing your paws. Being conscious of what you touch and what you do with your hands after you touch a common use item. And yes, wearing a mask all go together to limit the transmission of germs. 

Everyone has gotten caught up in WEAR A MASK and I think it's probably created a false sense of security. As long as they have a mask on and everyone else is wearing one, they feel safe. Nothing could be farther from the truth. 

In reply to 03Panther :

I think a lot of the reason for the constantly telling people to wear a mask is that so many lack the common sense to decide the time and place on their own. Getting hand washing down took long enough, now imagine getting some people to  understand how and when to put on a mask. 

In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :

While I do agree that common sense ain’t all that common, I’ve heard all the stories on here about the way “wear a mask” has been handled most of the time, including by people on here, so I don’t believe your on the right track there. 

Also not sure about the washing hands took long enough. From what I’ve seen, people already “got” it, or haven’t really learned a thing. And the masks (rather sneeze guards, but that’s not what the “popular” term is) have been pushed from the start so hard ya almost cant hear the other ways to protect yourself and others. 

In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :

Knee jerk is not quite the right word, and neither is over reacting. Just closest I could get!

A lot of “do this” is simply trying to make the general public feel like company’s and gob’ment are “helping”

im not saying that quite right either, but as close as I can!

aircooled said:

PD not wearing masks seems to be a trend, I have seen various pics of it.

It does not appear to be a US only thing though.  There is evidence of lax behavior in Europe.  The Nordic countries clearly are not into masks.  Spain has an issue with tourists and I have even seen a pic of a wild unmasked party in Germany.  Not much reporting on this that I know, so hard to tell the extent.

I suspect next month, pretty much vacation month in much of Europe, might result in a sizable uptick.  Spain and France are already seeing minor rises.

Some people everywhere, it appears, are getting fatigued with compliance. 

It appears many bar owners in Texas will not comply with the closure order.  Bars of course are almost a perfect spreading environment.  A number of very large group "Gatherings" in the streets still happening (as with the bars, I suspect this has a lot to do with wanted to do something.... anything....).

You can only keep people locked away and take away everything that relieves stress in their day to day lives for so long before they say berkeley it. We've been at this since March. We are starting month 5 of no bars, no concerts, no movies, no races, no fairs no nothing. Hell some places you still can't have a sit down meal. 
 

for a country so proud of its freedom and individuality this is torture. And for what? People are still going to get the virus. People are still going to die. It's still going to suck but now we are going to make it sick for everyone as long as we can. Yay!

Imagine sacrificing 550 of your neighbors so you can eat at Applebee's or something.

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to 03Panther :

Everyone has gotten caught up in WEAR A MASK and I think it's probably created a false sense of security. As long as they have a mask on and everyone else is wearing one, they feel safe. Nothing could be farther from the truth. 

 

Why could nothing be farther from the truth? I know it isn't perfect, but yes, I feel much safer if everyone is wearing a mask if they're in a store or less than 6 feet from me. 

This is how I would say it: Wearing a mask [when in public around other people] is the best overall strategy to keep this virus manageable. 

It is cheap. It is easy. It is unobtrusive to your daily life. For instance, this past weekend, we went to a baby shower and played golf. Everyone but the infant wore a mask at the shower. When we were in the clubhouse getting a beverage, we wore a mask. Otherwise we were outside and 6 feet apart. That wasn't that different from a normal day (of course, half of the attendees of the baby shower were RN's or MD's, so wearing a mask has been commonplace for them for years). 

Until there is a vaccine, it is the most effective way of fighting this without shutting down our economy again/any more. It has been politicized, which is stupid. If you can show me a solution other than a mask that (a) allows us to live a somewhat normal life, short of restaurants and movies, and (b) is cheap, easy, and effective, I'd love to hear it. I haven't seen it yet. 

Got tested in a drive-through place- I had heard a lot of "oh it really hurts, the swab basically stabs you in the brain" prior to going.  It really wasn't that bad, a little uncomfortable but now I know just how incredibly far into my nose something can go so that's fun.

Physically I think I feel pretty much normal, and my temperature has remained normal so far.  Quarantining myself to the garage and guestroom is going fine, although it's certainly weird trying to navigate my house this way.

I'm getting a home test kit as well and will repeat with that one so I have two results to reduce the chances of a false negative.

red_stapler said:

Imagine sacrificing 550 of your neighbors so you can eat at Applebee's or something.

I'm not an Appleby's fan, but I would eat there if I could pick 5 or so to "sacrifice". 

bobzilla said:

 

for a country so proud of its freedom and individuality this is torture. And for what? People are still going to get the virus. People are still going to die. It's still going to suck but now we are going to make it sick for everyone as long as we can. Yay!

I stood in my kitchen back in late February when Italy went into lockdown, and told my brother and wife that we'd never let that happen in the good ole US of A. But here we are. Boy was I wrong....

red_stapler said:

Imagine sacrificing 550 of your neighbors so you can eat at Applebee's or something.

done. How many for Texas Roadhouse?

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

I had to go to Lowes to repair a door yesterday. I was there about an hour. In that time I saw 3 people pull down their mask and rub their nose or mouth. 25% of them didn't have their nose covered. The best part, 90% of them rub their face as soon as the pull off the mask when they get to their car. Yet they think they are safe because everyone says a mask will save the world. 

The average Jo has no comprehension of how a virus is transmitted and probably doesn't even know what a virus is. They feel safe since they are wearing a mask like they were told and probably don't even realize they have compromised it countless times since they got out of their car. Then they move on to fondle products throughout the store. Guess what, the mask didn't stop the virus from getting all over the card machine at checkout when booger hooks entered his pin. And a mask isn't going to help the next guy that enters his pin on the card machine. Being conscientious of what you do with your hands can, but education is hard for the self righteous. Standing back and shouting WEAR A MASK makes a person feel they are "doing their part" and it's much more fun.

There is no cheap easy magic bullet. If you want to stop the virus you are going to have to educate the general public on what transmits them. My guess is that this virus is going to run it course. We should be happy that this one is so mild. 

red_stapler said:

Imagine sacrificing 550 of your neighbors so you can eat at Applebee's or something.

I was promised an apocalyptic plague with bodies stacking up faster than we could burn them. I got my business shutdown, schools shut down, a big berkeley you from the state with regards to unemployment, and a berkeley ton of politicized idiocy instead.

I'd rather the apocalyptic plague.

Ever think just maybe it's the planet trying to protect itself from the invasive 2 legged parasite that's been hell bent on destroying it for the last 100k years?

In reply to RevRico :

My best friend texted me not long ago "We were promised Zombies. Where's the damn zombies?"

In reply to bobzilla :

Come to SC, our restaurants are open. I'll buy you dinner. 

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

I had to go to Lowes to repair a door yesterday. I was there about an hour. In that time I saw 3 people pull down their mask and rub their nose or mouth. 25% of them didn't have their nose covered. The best part, 90% of them rub their face as soon as the pull off the mask when they get to their car. Yet they think they are safe because everyone says a mask will save the world. 

To me this is sort of like saying people are too hung up on wear "WEAR SAFETY GLASSES" because you saw a few guys misuse them on a job site you went to.  

Used correctly, masks are effective.

I agree, you can't forget about the other parts like keeping your hands clean, not touching your face, and most importantly, social distancing.

In reply to ProDarwin :

I'm not and haven't recommended not wearing a mask when necessary. My suggestion is that education would work better than blindly wearing a mask. A couple of infomercials during prime time TV would probably do more good than the current Wear a Mask campaign. 

Edit: What we have now is a WEAR SAFETY GLASSES campaign without informing people that taking all of the guards off your grinders also isn't a good idea. 

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

New Zealand is an odd comparison. It's an island. (Actually a bunch of islands). With a total population of 5 million (smaller than most major US cities). It's population density is 47 people per sq mile. 
 

That's a LOT different.

But yes, in hindsight there are things we could have done better. 

Coming back to this.  Would we have the exact same response?  No.  But even if we did what they did on a much grander scale, we would be way better off.

There are a lot of ways we could have approached this, but somehow we have chosen the worst possible way.

Personally I am a fan of the lockdown super hard, super quick and get it the hell over with method.  Unfortunately that didn't (and wont) happen so we are left juggling the spread & deaths with the economic & social factors until we give up on one side or a vaccine is ready. 

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

I'm not and haven't recommended not wearing a mask when necessary. My suggestion is that education would work better than blindly wearing a mask. A couple of infomercials during prime time TV would probably do more good than the current Wear a Mask campaign. 

Agreed, education is very important.  I think that ship sailed early on when this became politicized, as well as the CDC fubaring the message.

If the CDC had an infomercial saying "here's what you should do & why", and the WH team in a press conference and said "wear a mask, its protects your fellow citizens, its patriotic" (or whatever), I think acceptance would be infinitely higher.

Most of these regulations are not about completely stopping the virus it is about prevent hospitals getting overwhelmed which leads to deaths that didn't need to happen like we saw in New York and seem to be seeing now in other parts of the country. It is about buying time to come up with a vaccine/ other treatments that help combat this virus.

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Come to SC, our restaurants are open. I'll buy you dinner. 

 

ours are too. My comment was a little facetious in nature responding to hte obvious flounder. We've had restraunts outside the tin-pot dictator's jurisdiction since the beginning of June. We just stay the hell away from Marion county and Indianapolis in general.