Part of the issue is parts that wear out with use the other issue is parts that age out. The problem my mercedes has is parts start aging out. I'm talking about the vacuum system, engine seals, etc. I think when a car hits 30years old you'd better plan on doing some work on it, no matter how robust originally built.
My sister has a honda accord with a V6. She bought it from a Japanese lady with 230k miles on it, now it has 260k and it just keeps going.
RexSeven wrote:Knurled wrote: (dammit Ohio, it's a road, not a margarita)Magazine-worthy. I ask the same thing of Mass. and NH every winter.
NY as well. I know it will be rust that does in my R/T. The 1" hole in the rocker has quikly grown
neon4891 wrote:RexSeven wrote:NY as well. I know it will be rust that does in my R/T. The 1" hole in the rocker has quikly grownKnurled wrote: (dammit Ohio, it's a road, not a margarita)Magazine-worthy. I ask the same thing of Mass. and NH every winter.
WI same. I spent almost a week this summer doing nothing but rust patching on my van to make sure the rust spots were gone before they could become rust holes.
I don't care about high miles if the car is solid, either. Engines/transmissions last and are usually cheaply available used by the time it's a problem.
Crappy old car feel is 99% just worn out rubber. The first thing I seem to do with any high mileage car I buy is to slowly replace everything rubber with new/lightly used. Suspension bushings, exhaust hangers, door/window/hood/trunk seals, engine/trans/diff mounts, shift linkage bushings, guibo (on a Bimmer), subframe bushings, etc. Normal people don't replace these things, or even notice they're bad, since the deterioration happens so gradually.
It's probably a thousand dollars worth of stuff on most cars if you can source all the body seals used on the cheap, but it's a surefire way of making a $1000 crapbucket feel like a $10,000 used car.
Electrical systems are the only thing that really freak me out. Once the wiring starts to really deteriorate I sell the car.
paanta wrote: Electrical systems are the only thing that really freak me out. Once the wiring starts to really deteriorate I sell the car.
That's what's going to be interesting as 1990 and especially later cars age... body, chassis, and drivetrain are going to be (relatively) easy to deal with...
It's going to SUCK. Although, I think I've had less trouble with electrical problems on 10 year old cars recently than on 10 year old cars a decade ago. Corroded connectors and splitting insulation on my '99 Passat today isn't nearly as bad as the stuff on my '91 VW was back in 2001. Maybe it won't be so bad!
Hahahah, right. :)
It's going to be very fun when the modern cars start to age out. A lot of components require flashing to install.
Oh, and a lot of components are tied to the VIN, and can't be swapped from another vehicle, so your only option is new.
The fun will be when "new" is NLA. There is going to be a big market in the future for this sort of thing... assuming people don't just junk the cars.
We've been running into this, actually. Saturns PCMs like to burn the EGR driver out. NLA from dealer. They're available in the aftermarket, but a dealer has to flash it, and they won't flash an aftermarket part. We've been sending them out and having them rebuilt.
Part of the joy of my 347,645.7 mile daily driver is that I now KNOW this car. Just like integraguy, this has been a pizza delivery car since 72,000 miles and was reasonably maintained when I bought it from a co-worker at 132,000 miles. Sure, over the past 10 years I have replaced (upgraded) nearly every moving part except the engine.. 20 years old and runs and looks great. My brother just went on a 1700 mile trip in his 40 year old Mustang. He has just under 200,000 miles on it but has been maintaining and upgrading for a long time.
I also have my nieces 2003 Honda that is barely worth scrap! Only 69,000 miles and the Tote-A-Note guy just handed me the title when he came to pick it up..still owed $4300 on it. He left the car! Cam broke due to no oil change in 11,000 miles, several poor driver issues with suspension, headlights, doors not working properly...etc.
Even the best built car cannot withstand abuse and a lack of maintenance.
Bruce
I prefer to find my daily drivers with under 150k because I need something that is reliable for making long trips. Much more than that and rarely are the cars well taken care of (except for people on here). And since I am buying used I want to find the car that was treated the best. Other than the mechanicals that wear out (engine, trans, ball joints, shocks, etc) I want my window switches to work, headlights to turn on, dash to stay in one piece etc.
Basically, its a crap shoot buying used and you need to pay attention to the previous owner.
I'd buy a 175k car from my dad but not from my sister.
Does seem like a pretty solid checklist for looking at a used cars?
http://autos.msn.com/advice/articles/aischecklist.aspx
It seemed easier to find a premade list than make my own. Anything you guys would like to add?
I just spent $700 putting a cat, tie rod ends and new hoses in the wife's 255,000 Malibu. Aside from a few chips and a little rust she still shines. Her family thinks she's crazy for driving it but what new car am I going to get for $700-$1000 a year.
Wally wrote: I just spent $700 putting a cat, tie rod ends and new hoses in the wife's 255,000 Malibu. Aside from a few chips and a little rust she still shines. Her family thinks she's crazy for driving it but what new car am I going to get for $700-$1000 a year.
Yeah, one of only two arguments I ever won with the ex-wife was when I had to postpone a child support payment to do the timing chains on the green Corrado. I also had a new clutch installed (since the thing was apart anyway), and it was the same year the heater core went. She was livid that I'd spent about $2300 on the car over that year, but when I reminded her that she'd spent $6K on her $500 a month new car payment during the same span of time, she really couldn't hold it over my head anymore. At least she was realistic enough to understand that without a way to get to work, there'd be more than one support payment she'd lose..
Also, please recall that I'm talking about an argument from 8-10yrs ago, about a car with less electronic nonsense (although the Corrado does have a lot of that stuff..) than even most modern "base trim" models do today. Knurled is right, if he was being sarcastic. 
For me its 100% situational. Some cars you can drive forever and parts are cheap and easy to replace. I had an 87 Olds Cutlass that I put 350,000 miles on because there wasn't much that could fail. I replaced the engine once with a $200 junkyard engine. I found alternators at Auto Zone for $29, front wheel bearings were $16, and brake calipers/cylinders ranged from cheap to damn near free.
Contrast that with my wife's 99 E300TD with 207k. I'm starting to see some failures that indicate either huge labor or huge cost so I'm selling it while I can.
The cutlass also had some good engineering points that made it a bit more of a workhorse - full perimeter frame, plenty of under-hood access for any repairs, very low HP so there was very little strain on driveline parts, and the access to a bazillion used parts made it super economical to keep it running.
Something like a Cavalier or a Civic with a unibody I wouldn't go that far. Metal becomes work-hardened as it flexes and vibrates which leads to reduced stiffness, safety, and even just plain ripped welds. Of course this also varies widely. My wife's E300 is remarkably stiff and rattle free; a testament to Mercedes engineering. But a Plymouth K car was a wet noodle when you drove it off the lot.
I also look at its value - either on the market or to me. Do I want this car bad enough to spend more money than its worth? Will doing this repair be worth it when I sell it? That kind of thing.
I bought a 62 Cadillac SDV with over 580k on it. Dropped in a used 390 for $500, chopped the springs, shaved the door handles, put a horse blanket over the seats, and painted it flat black. That was both worth it to me AND the market. I sold it for way more than I had in it.
But... as I'm looking for a replacement car for my wife, I'll be looking for low mileage Scion xB. She likes to own a car until it turns into a pile of dust.
Locally, those cars were famous for the back half of the frame rusting off. Sometimes a light hit would make the bumper and a foot or two of frame to fall off, sometimes it would happen all by itself.
That, and the usual rotted floors (especially the leaky T-top models) and rusted out brake and fuel lines and body mounts punching through the body because the shell's too soft.
The only ones I seem to see on the road anymore are Grand Nationals (diaper cars) or imported from other parts of the country. That's probably part of why I like GNs so much, almost every single one I've seen has been a rust free joy to work on.
I look at some of the new cars, where there are multiple open folds and layers of sheetmetal on the underside, just waiting to trap dirt and salt and moisture, and wonder just what the hell they're thinking.
I think a lot depends on how far you're planning to drive the car every day and your ability/willingness to spend evenings fixing things.
If I still had a short commute that I could bike in an emergency I'd be much more willing to drive a C4 Corvette or a 944 turbo. Being that I drive closer to 50 miles a day and my employment depends on my presence I'm not willing to take that chance.
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