Why are we all so angry lately?

I don't think this thread will last much longer...

In reply to SV reX :

doesn't matter. The things I've been called over that last year is mind boggling. And as always, we can't talk about it so lets just keep something else bottled up and then ask why people are so angry. 

In reply to mtn :

and yes, there are. But we can't discuss it so it doesn't matter.

To hopefully skirt the subject a bit and maybe drive in a different direction.  I do entirely understand and agree with what Bob is saying though, and the point I tried to make:

Not being able to (reasonably / rationally) even ask or discuss some very important issue (not just here of course) is a HUGE issue itself and I think has been VERY damaging in general (again, not just here) and just adds to the anger / frustration.

As noted, this has lot to do with the way things are discussed on the webs...  which of course is obviously a general human behavior characteristic based just on how common it is if nothing else.

In reply to aircooled :

At least someone understands where I'm coming from. Not that it matters any more. We as a society have turned our backs on mental health over the last two years in the name of safety. We are only starting to see how bad this is gong to bite us in the keester.

I have honestly never had a problem understanding where you are coming from Bob (I remember some of the earlier "discussions").  I just don't assume malice in what you are saying.

Did you say you are preparing for One Lap?  That seems like great "therapy" from what I have heard.

In reply to aircooled :

yeah, Sundae Cup shenanigans on a bigger scale.

Covid and the bureaucratic war against it is definitely part of the problem, but I think the Strategic issue is what Richard Fernandez calls the "diminishing design margin" of society.   The good news (to me) is that I'm seeing some signs of recognition of the problem and while they're not reacting specifically to that problem people appear likely to change their behaviors in ways that will have the same effect. 

In reply to stroker :

What is the diminishing design margin of society?

Lean on me, y'all.  I'm a happy sumbitch.  I have a surplus of sunshine I can shove up your asses.

I know depression, stress, and anger are real and I'm not saying I'm gooder than you, just letting you know I have cheer to spare if you need some.

“We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. This is the divine mystery supreme. A wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness. We need not wait to see what others do.” – Mahatma Gandhi

In reply to stroker :

I would like to know more because google gives me nothing on that topic. 

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Nope. There is a lot more teenage suicide today than there was in the 70s. 

 

I'm just not seeing that. Teenage suicide rate (15-19 years old) in the 1970s was 12.0 per 100,000. In 2019, the latest year official data is available, it was 11.2 per 100,000. That seems like close enough to rounding error to be basically identical.

Plenty of people were shot and killed in the 1970s. Violent crime was worse then than it is now. Murder rates have fallen by half. How you feel things have changed is due to adult perception and growing up - that's how it works. As a kid you care about nothing, as a teen you care about having fun and exploring boundaries, as an adult your worries begin to expand and you can let them eat you up if you're not careful.

bobzilla said:

In reply to stroker :

I would like to know more because google gives me nothing on that topic. 

PM Sent, too.

Richard Fernandez is also known by a nom de plume "Wretchard" and his readers/commenters are "The Belmont Club".  Here's his permanent page at PJ Media:   https://pjmedia.com/columnist/richard-fernandez/

Here is a reference I found where he mentions the concept of Design Margin:

https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2011/08/09/youth-n190846

"The commenters at the Belmont Club have coined still another similar idea termed the Design Margin.  The Design Margin is a description of how much a system can be bent before it will break. A society in which there is a great deal of respect or authority and lots of money to square circles has a big Design Margin. A society in dire straits in which contempt for the authority is not only tolerated but encouraged by the cultural elite is a society with a small Design Margin."
 

Incompetence.  Hypocrisy.  Malice.  Greed.  Cooking the books.

These are a few of my least favorite things.

dculberson said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Nope. There is a lot more teenage suicide today than there was in the 70s. 

 

I'm just not seeing that. Teenage suicide rate (15-19 years old) in the 1970s was 12.0 per 100,000. In 2019, the latest year official data is available, it was 11.2 per 100,000. That seems like close enough to rounding error to be basically identical.

Plenty of people were shot and killed in the 1970s. Violent crime was worse then than it is now. Murder rates have fallen by half. How you feel things have changed is due to adult perception and growing up - that's how it works. As a kid you care about nothing, as a teen you care about having fun and exploring boundaries, as an adult your worries begin to expand and you can let them eat you up if you're not careful.

Where do you get those numbers for suicide? Is that for attempts or for situations where someone actually dies? The CDC reports a 51% increase in attempts since 2020. A lot has changed from 2019 to 2022.

I just think a huge step in the right direction to reducing the anger is to participate, encourage and reward actual discussion on the stress topics.  Not 5 min sound bites, not refusing or shutting down conversations or people who have the "wrong" opinion or observation. Not listening only to the loudest or most enthusiastic voices or only the voices you agree with.  Be aware of how what you say, or write, might be misinterpreted.

LISTEN to people.  Acknowledge what you can that you agree with (we all have a LOT more common ground than we think).  Be very prepared to adjust your opinion, or that you are wrong / miss-informed.  Do not assume, or read to much into things (writing or even speaking in a way to fully communicate what you mean can be very difficult).  Objectively investigate, it's pretty clear a lot of sources that are supposed to do this, do not.

I think we have seen, and will see, this current trend has and will cause a LOT of harm.

(again, not necessarily talking about this board, it is a MUCH larger issue)

Regarding the Design Margin:  You could also call it a buffer, or shock travel.  You run out of travel and you are on the stops and that is not a fun ride.  We all need to give our "vehicles" a nice lift, with lots of travel and soft shocks (think trophy truck) and very much avoid going the "stance" route (no offense to actual cars).

You will be a lot less angry if you ride over the "bumps" of life or society in this:

rather than this:

In reply to aircooled :

Very well said.

Why must we only consider that anger is a negative thing?  I'd like to suggest that there are in fact some things that should anger us, and that anger can motivate us to stand up for that in which we believe.  Only a doormat will lie down and consistently take abuse.  We should be slow to anger, but there are situations where it is a very appropriate response.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

well, I'd say to not be "cancelled" and removed from society I've been a doormat for 18 months. Unfortunately it's not even anger that's left. Just resignation and severe depression.

Anger IS entirely appropriate in many situations and is a clear indicator that something has a strong effect on you and can be a strong motivator.  The key here is to be very sure what you are angry about deserves anger and what an appropriate response is.

Importantly, anger can create impulsive behavior / responses.  So, if you do become angry, be aware of it and act appropriately.  Probably the best method is to "step back", count to 10 etc to make sure what you where going to say / write was not done in anger.

I think it is best summed up by a well known (stoicism) saying (edited a bit to make it more generic):

Grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change; 
courage to change the things I can; 
and wisdom to know the difference.

It is generally not of any use to get mad at something you have no way of changing, and to add, your anger should be proportional to your ability to change it.

As Bob is indicating.  The current environment has caused many people to "go silent" despite having strong feelings on things and in many cases have useful information / perspectives to add.  This can give a VERY distorted view of what is really going on.  This of course is reflected in information outlets as it becomes a false feedback loop. 

Just because someone doesn't shout out that they disagree, doesn't not mean that they agree.

The bold / aggressive / angry, are generally on the edges of the discussion, are the ones with the loudest, most heard voices.  They can represent a very small percentage of the population.

There once was a cafe/ bar I frequented from the time I was sixteen for at least a decade. Everyone was welcome race religion political beliefs sexuality, didn't matter. All topics were up for debate discussion. The one rule was don't be an shiny happy person. Behave like a civilized human being. And I am being literal. There were republicans,democrats gay lesbian,construction people white collar blue collar etc etc. If you got out of line all of us would kindly or maybe not so kindly show you the door. I learned a lot in my time there because I could say "I don't agree with you, these are my thoughts beliefs, prove me wrong". And we didn't always agree, but we respected each other. I think this kind of discourse is severely missing in the world today.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

Why must we only consider that anger is a negative thing?  I'd like to suggest that there are in fact some things that should anger us, and that anger can motivate us to stand up for that in which we believe.  Only a doormat will lie down and consistently take abuse.  We should be slow to anger, but there are situations where it is a very appropriate response.
 

While I completely agree, I think the root cause of many issues is people not knowing when that anger is reasonable and warrants action. Lots of people now think that just being angry justifies their feelings and actions. None of this is a direct reply to the post above. This is my own personal guideline...

Step #1- Is it real. Did I do my due diligence to make sure that what made me angry actually happened as I was told? Have I looked at multiple points of view? Am I letting bias cloud my judgement? Did I wait for the complete story to be told? Did I look up and check for strings? 

Step #2. Am I really angry? Feigned outrage is becoming as common as soccer players flopping. 
 

Step #3. Can I stick to the facts and avoid exaggerating the situation? It's like the world is playing a giant game of "telephone" and the tales get taller the more they are shared. I don't want to be part of that. 
 

Step #4. Don't be the boy who cried wolf. Many people are so quick to spread misinformation that when they actually get something right, no one believes them.

Step #5. Don't be so quick to label opposing views as misinformation. I better be right, because if I shut them down and I'm wrong about it, then I have become what I was trying to prevent. A better idea would be to make my own knowledgeable arguement and let people decide for themselves. Often the best way to kill a bad idea is to shed light on it. 
 

Step #6. Is it really that big a deal? Can I  just let it go and save my energy for a more worthwhile fight? Is this the hill I want to die on? 
 

Now don't get me wrong, I sometimes fail a step or two. I usually realize when I have done so and go back to examine where I went wrong. Sometimes the most important thing it to realize when I'm wrong, or at least not completely right. The key is not to get so invested in an idea that I'm blinded to the possibility of being wrong. The one that I'm struggling with is #6. While I have strong opinions, I often find myself stopping at #6. Because most of it is little things that don't have a big impact on my daily life. The problem is that it's beginning to feel like death from a thousand cuts. No big deal on their own, but they add up. Am I doing the right thing by society by sacrificing a little to make others feel better? Or am I just setting myself up for more by accepting the minor stuff? The answer to both is probably yes. 

Lobsterpennies said:

There once was a cafe/ bar I frequented from the time I was sixteen for at least a decade. Everyone was welcome race religion political beliefs sexuality, didn't matter. All topics were up for debate discussion. The one rule was don't be an shiny happy person. Behave like a civilized human being. And I am being literal. There were republicans,democrats gay lesbian,construction people white collar blue collar etc etc. If you got out of line all of us would kindly or maybe not so kindly show you the door. I learned a lot in my time there because I could say "I don't agree with you, these are my thoughts beliefs, prove me wrong". And we didn't always agree, but we respected each other. I think this kind of discourse is severely missing in the world today.

Not missing. Intentionally stamped out of existence