Why are we all so angry lately?

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

That stinks.  Hopefully the damage isn't bad.

One thing I miss about driving an old pick-up truck.  My old Toyota had an extruded aluminum rear bumper I had nick-named "the immovable object" since it had been hit about four times and whatever contacted always came out of the encounter worse off. That bumper looked the same when I sold the truck 9 years later. 

One interesting trait I see is a sense of fear and how fear seems to manifest into anger. Maybe that is one reason I don't really feel that much anger. I literally have no fear of anything or anyone. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that is all that healthy. A complete lack of fear also means I don't really have much motivation. 

I am going back to driving my old XJ Cherokee. Some poor guy impaled the radiator of his Mitsubishi Eclipse with the Cherokee's trailer hitch while barely scratching the rock crawler bumper. Hey, do they make rock crawler bumpers for Mustangs? 

There is a lot of fear out there that manifests itself as anger. Today I am afraid of abusive doctor's bills and increasing car insurance rates. Actually fixing the broken Mustang is an easy job. Maybe repaint the rear bumper at most. Bodywork is fun. I am just too tired and flat out burned out to express anger any more. Grinding away the rest of my teeth and puking in the bathroom is just about all I can do.

In reply to mblommel :

• 24-7 partisan news cycle stoking divisiveness 
• Rampant misinformation rampaging through social media
• Disregard or doubt in scientific data and knowledge of subject matter experts
• Large corporations maximizing profits shrinking the middle class
• Employers mistreating employees 
• Economic headwinds for many people (eg student loan debt, rising home prices)
• Lack of common decency in discourse due to "keyboard warrior" behavior 

Eliminate all social media and a third of our problems would go away.

Reinstate the FCC fairness doctrine and another third would disappear 

Finding a way to curtail corporate greed and get execute pay vs worker pay ratios under control is really tough. 
 

This right here is a great example of why many people are frustrated, but not for the reason you think. I'm trying really hard to respond to this in a way that doesn't take this on a political tangent and stays on topic, so I won't address the individual statements. 
 

Many of the statements above are not only highly political, but inaccurate. But they are on the okay political side, so they get a pass on this board and in society in general. Not only are many of these statements extremely one sided, you are calling for the silencing of opposition or even questioning of these statements. I do not have the opportunity to make a knowledgeable rebuttal backed up by fact to some of your statements, as it would  violate a taboo topic- despite that fact that you brought it up. I'm not calling to silence you. I'm not afraid to debate you and prove where you are wrong. I'm not afraid to listen to you and accept where I am wrong.  I feel bad for you. You seem to have written those statements with great confidence, the confidence of someone who hasn't seen both sides of an issue and doesn't know what they are missing. Worse yet, as of the time I replied, you have 7 thumbs up for your post. 

So to circle back, why are people so angry? Some people are angry because they don't understand why people don't agree with them, despite not even listening to the other side. Others are angry because they are told that they are wrong, questioning is wrong, and they are silenced. 

The important thing is to keep your sense of humor.

Boost_Crazy said:

Many of the statements above are not only highly political, but inaccurate. But they are on the okay political side, so they get a pass on this board and in society in general. Not only are many of these statements extremely one sided, you are calling for the silencing of opposition or even questioning of these statements. I do not have the opportunity to make a knowledgeable rebuttal backed up by fact to some of your statements, as it would  violate a taboo topic- despite that fact that you brought it up. I'm not calling to silence you. I'm not afraid to debate you and prove where you are wrong. I'm not afraid to listen to you and accept where I am wrong.  I feel bad for you. You seem to have written those statements with great confidence, the confidence of someone who hasn't seen both sides of an issue and doesn't know what they are missing. Worse yet, as of the time I replied, you have 7 thumbs up for your post. 

So to circle back, why are people so angry? Some people are angry because they don't understand why people don't agree with them, despite not even listening to the other side. Others are angry because they are told that they are wrong, questioning is wrong, and they are silenced. 

I mean many of those things can be why many people are frustrated and also your reasons can be why people are frustrated one. One does not exclude the other.

The simple fact of the matter is we have people with very different world views, lifestyles and values. Both these groups are being told that the other group will destroy these things. So it pushes each group further apart and towards more radical views and as one group becomes more radical it convinces the other even more that that group is out to destroy all they stand for and vice versa.

But rather then have empthy towards the other group and trying to understand we attack and try to destroy.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

I snoozed every single person except my wife on FB right after Thanksgiving.  It was kinda nice.

Used to autocross 16 times a year 15 minutes from home.  No longer have the site and virus ruined schedules for the last few years.

I heard a quote during a podcast today, that is interesting food for thought (paraphrased):

If feeling rich is having more than you need, a good way to feel rich is to need less.

I once worked at a small shop,  the owner, an office worker and me.  Every morning we would say our hellos and would be in a normal mood.  Then, at 9am, the first of 2 talk shows the owner loved came on.   His mood would start to sour.  At noon the second show would come on and he would continue to find out what he was to be mad about that day.  From 3-5 he would beat the days talking points into the ground.  It was amazing to watch happen every day.  I think about that a lot.  

It is nice of them to provide a list of everything you need to hate. It saves you having to think.

I got nothing to add at the moment, other than positive vibes. Bobzilla, Snowdoggie, and Cousin Eddie stand out, all for very different reasons-take care, brothers. That goes for the lot of you. Times are tough, but so are we.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

I mean many of those things can be why many people are frustrated and also your reasons can be why people are frustrated one. One does not exclude the other.

The simple fact of the matter is we have people with very different world views, lifestyles and values. Both these groups are being told that the other group will destroy these things. So it pushes each group further apart and towards more radical views and as one group becomes more radical it convinces the other even more that that group is out to destroy all they stand for and vice versa.

But rather then have empthy towards the other group and trying to understand we attack and try to destroy.

I mostly agree, except that a good chunk of the list people can control for themselves. If those things make you angry, you can avoid them. Instead, people are calling to get rid of them, or more likely, control them. As long as they do what they want them to do. I also think there is a difference between people who are angry at others for not doing what they want them to do or for not giving them what they want,  and people who are angry because of what they are told to do and for what people are trying to take from them. 

logdog (Forum Supporter) said:

I once worked at a small shop,  the owner, an office worker and me.  Every morning we would say our hellos and would be in a normal mood.  Then, at 9am, the first of 2 talk shows the owner loved came on.   His mood would start to sour.  At noon the second show would come on and he would continue to find out what he was to be mad about that day.  From 3-5 he would beat the days talking points into the ground.  It was amazing to watch happen every day.  I think about that a lot.  

The number of people who confuse talk shows with news always amazes me.  Those shows are just a bunch of talking heads stating their opinions (or at least, stating whatever they think will get them good ratings.)

stuart in mn said:

The number of people who confuse talk shows with news always amazes me.  Those shows are just a bunch of talking heads stating their opinions (or at least, stating whatever they think will get them good ratings.)

That's a very good point.  It doesn't help that many so-called "reputable" news channels sensationalize, distort, and frequently just plain get it wrong.  There should be a big difference, but in many cases, so-called news programs have degenerated into talk shows.

I wonder if they could find some DNA and clone Roger Cronkite.

The media is all about ratings. They are looking for eyeballs. They don't care about fairness. They don't care about justice. They don't care about accuracy. Two hours of panel discussion with economists and charts won't  bring the ratings. Protests where people are screaming and doing violence to each other will. Car crashes and plane crashes will. They want you to watch and keep watching and they want to spend as little money creating it as they can get away with. If bringing on a clown to drop his pants and scream his head off makes you look and the clown with do it for free, that's what the media will bring you. The Kardashians post sex tapes online. Howard Stern uses four letter words on the radio. That's what sells now. This is our media.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

mblommel said:

• 24-7 partisan news cycle stoking divisiveness 
• Rampant misinformation rampaging through social media
• Disregard or doubt in scientific data and knowledge of subject matter experts
• Large corporations maximizing profits shrinking the middle class
• Employers mistreating employees 
• Economic headwinds for many people (eg student loan debt, rising home prices)
• Lack of common decency in discourse due to "keyboard warrior" behavior 

Eliminate all social media and a third of our problems would go away.

Reinstate the FCC fairness doctrine and another third would disappear 

Finding a way to curtail corporate greed and get execute pay vs worker pay ratios under control is really tough. 

Ahh yes. Student loans. Have you ever heard of the Smith and Wesson Student Loan Forgiveness Plan? It's the only plan out there that doesn't require the act of a split Congress to enact. Kind of plays havoc with the current labor shortage though. And it only cancels the Federal Loans. Private loans actually last longer than you do. Transplant organ brokers are standing by.

Mistreating employees?? The last guy I worked for had a taste for Peruvian white powder and prescription Adderall. He had problems with anger. Didn't like it when I was late to work because I had to change Mom's diapers. Nuff said about that one. Glad I don't work there anymore.

Reinstate the Fairness Doctrine? With 400 cable channels and satellite radio, every nut in this universe and some alternate universes will get a turn with the Equal Time law. Not sure I want to see that happen.

Eliminate social media? You still have reality TV and screaming talk show hosts on the radio. Eliminate all media and the crazies will come to your front yard and scream at you through a megaphone. They will post signs on your yard and stickers on the gas pumps at your local service station. They will block the streets. I think that horse left the barn a looong time ago.

Curtailing corporate greed? Shades of Che Guevara and Gordon Gekko! Maybe it's just human nature. I don't know. Employee beatings will continue until morale improves. Don't mind the collection agency dudes hiding in the bushes. They are just here for your car. We have great bus service here. Don't forget your mask.

Going back to my cube to hide now. Soon it will be quitting time and the crazies will all be tailgating me home, focusing on my smashed rear bumper for a rematch.

Angry? Who me? Nooo. Maybe just a little bit crazy and my health insurance won't pay for any more sessions. Just like everybody else out there.

 

Hey man, I'm reading your first paragraph as advocating suicide as the answer.  I understand you might be trying to be funny.  Please tell me I'm wrong. 

I might hold similar opinions regarding student debt - I'm against forgiving it even though I'm pretty liberal. All you have to do is be willing to serve- military, teach for America, peace corps, most government service and even some private corporations will support or help pay college debt. I'm not big on forgiving it for folks who aren't willing to give of themselves. 
 

So to the first point. If you were making a joke about it, please reconsider. We can talk further and I dont want to derail, but you may not have experienced what it feels like to have buds take matters into their own hands, and it sucks. My strong feelings I'm representing here are just because I don't want anyone to take anyone seriously a flippant joke about it. Again, hoping I'm wrong about your intent there. 
 

But maybe this plays to the whole point of the thread. We aren't hanging together having a beer around a campfire. I read that one way, and god knows I've made some suicide jokes, but I knew my audience. And often I offend them with one joke or another, but largely I'm forgiven because they know my intent was to get a laugh.  So when tensions get high especially around a pandemic and politics, what is preposterous to me may be very personal to another. 

Teh E36 M3 said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

mblommel said:

• 24-7 partisan news cycle stoking divisiveness 
• Rampant misinformation rampaging through social media
• Disregard or doubt in scientific data and knowledge of subject matter experts
• Large corporations maximizing profits shrinking the middle class
• Employers mistreating employees 
• Economic headwinds for many people (eg student loan debt, rising home prices)
• Lack of common decency in discourse due to "keyboard warrior" behavior 

Eliminate all social media and a third of our problems would go away.

Reinstate the FCC fairness doctrine and another third would disappear 

Finding a way to curtail corporate greed and get execute pay vs worker pay ratios under control is really tough. 

Ahh yes. Student loans. Have you ever heard of the Smith and Wesson Student Loan Forgiveness Plan? It's the only plan out there that doesn't require the act of a split Congress to enact. Kind of plays havoc with the current labor shortage though. And it only cancels the Federal Loans. Private loans actually last longer than you do. Transplant organ brokers are standing by.

Mistreating employees?? The last guy I worked for had a taste for Peruvian white powder and prescription Adderall. He had problems with anger. Didn't like it when I was late to work because I had to change Mom's diapers. Nuff said about that one. Glad I don't work there anymore.

Reinstate the Fairness Doctrine? With 400 cable channels and satellite radio, every nut in this universe and some alternate universes will get a turn with the Equal Time law. Not sure I want to see that happen.

Eliminate social media? You still have reality TV and screaming talk show hosts on the radio. Eliminate all media and the crazies will come to your front yard and scream at you through a megaphone. They will post signs on your yard and stickers on the gas pumps at your local service station. They will block the streets. I think that horse left the barn a looong time ago.

Curtailing corporate greed? Shades of Che Guevara and Gordon Gekko! Maybe it's just human nature. I don't know. Employee beatings will continue until morale improves. Don't mind the collection agency dudes hiding in the bushes. They are just here for your car. We have great bus service here. Don't forget your mask.

Going back to my cube to hide now. Soon it will be quitting time and the crazies will all be tailgating me home, focusing on my smashed rear bumper for a rematch.

Angry? Who me? Nooo. Maybe just a little bit crazy and my health insurance won't pay for any more sessions. Just like everybody else out there.

 

Hey man, I'm reading your first paragraph as advocating suicide as the answer.  I understand you might be trying to be funny.  Please tell me I'm wrong. 

I might hold similar opinions regarding student debt - I'm against forgiving it even though I'm pretty liberal. All you have to do is be willing to serve- military, teach for America, peace corps, most government service and even some private corporations will support or help pay college debt. I'm not big on forgiving it for folks who aren't willing to give of themselves. 
 

So to the first point. If you were making a joke about it, please reconsider. We can talk further and I dont want to derail, but you may not have experienced what it feels like to have buds take matters into their own hands, and it sucks. My strong feelings I'm representing here are just because I don't want anyone to take anyone seriously a flippant joke about it. Again, hoping I'm wrong about your intent there. 
 

But maybe this plays to the whole point of the thread. We aren't hanging together having a beer around a campfire. I read that one way, and god knows I've made some suicide jokes, but I knew my audience. And often I offend them with one joke or another, but largely I'm forgiven because they know my intent was to get a laugh.  So when tensions get high especially around a pandemic and politics, what is preposterous to me may be very personal to another. 

I believe that student loan forgiveness should be situational. If you are a doctor with a long career ahead of you, then by all means you should pay it back. If you chose the wrong degree plan and ended up making $20,000 a year, they should adjust your payment accordingly. There are people out there in there 70s who don't have enough to eat after they take their student loan payment out of their social security. There are old people out there who have more than $100,000 in student loans thanks to compound interest. What do they accomplish by torturing old people like that? Should they put them in the military at send them to the Ukrane to fight. Send them to the ghetto to teach. At age 70?? Do they even want people past retirement age doing those jobs? If you are sitting there at the end of your life and your options are starving or homelessness, why not make euthanization an option? I know my opinion is radical, but nobody here wants to help these people and a lot of people want them punish them till they keel over. Yeah. Yeah. I know. We have to punish these people until their ancient bodies give out from arthritis, heart disease and pure exhaustion because other people had better luck in their careers. Our country is insane. Let these people escape if they want to. It's not like you can control them if they make that decision. Some people kill themselves over student loans. I know of a few people who committed suicide just last year because of age and financial crap. My own sister ended her life that way. Go ahead and get angry about it if you like. They are screwing the taxpayers. Dead people can't pay interest. This country is insane.

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

But that is same lack empathy that I mentioned. Rather then try to understand why what certain people are saying is driving the other group to that point they would rather yell about getting canceled and double down. Empathy needs to be a two way street.

This country is increasing divided between rural and urban areas and for a large part the values of those groups are fairly different. But rather then try to understand each other and see the good each other, we'd rather yell and see the bad in each other.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

But that is same lack empathy that I mentioned. Rather then try to understand why what certain people are saying is driving the other group to that point they would rather yell about getting canceled and double down. Empathy needs to be a two way street.

This country is increasing divided between rural and urban areas and for a large part the values of those groups are fairly different. But rather then try to understand each other and see the good each other, we'd rather yell and see the bad in each other.
 

I think I get what you are saying, but I'm having a hard time following. Are you saying that I should be empathetic about those trying to silence me? I get that, I agree. and I believe I am. I actually said "I feel bad for you," and it wasn't meant as condescension or a put down. Before I typed a word, I put myself in the other person's shoes and thought, "why would  they type that." I can empathize and understand where someone is coming from, but that doesn't make them right or justify their words or actions. I don't think most people are mean or evil, and I give most people the benefit of the doubt. Now if you are talking about people in general, I definitely agree. I think the majority of people don't empathize enough and fully understand the subject before they react. I often find myself calling bs on people that agree with me because they take it too far, and exaggerate the situation or someone's motive. But I do think there is a difference between wanting to have your voice heard and taking action to punish those you disagree with. 

This country is being divided in ever increasing ways, with empathy not a part of the calculation. It's not on accident. It's hard to be empathetic to groups that are being dehumanized by labeling and saying aren't worthy of a voice. I think empathy from everyone is a good step in the right direction. 

This thread is kinda funny, in that people are bringing up topics that clearly have a whole lotta nuance to them, but they have the solution, if only the right people asked.

Except they don't have the solution.  They have an opinion.

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

I guess what I am saying is there is a group A and group B. There have been some things said about people either on purpose or not that are more likely demographically to be members of group B by parts of Group A. Many people of Group B have seen the damage this has done and the response by some of them has been to attempt to silence those voices out of angry due to what they see as an attack on what they value. Certain people of Group B have then taken this a step further and pushed that much of what Group A says is a direct attack on the values of group B. Similarly there are members of Group A that have pushed the same idea that everything Group B does is an attack on the values of Group A.

So large parts of both groups now see everything the other group does as an attack on their values whether it is seen as an attack on democracy, race, religion, etc. What I am saying have empathy for is that people are seeing whether true or not is an attack on their values.

Streetwiseguy said:

This thread is kinda funny, in that people are bringing up topics that clearly have a whole lotta nuance to them, but they have the solution, if only the right people asked.

Except they don't have the solution.  They have an opinion.

Yep, and I've seen a few that have completely incorrect information and assumptions to push an agenda. Like you can literally do a quick Google search and in 30 seconds show it's wrong.

But I'm not going to take this thread down that path. 

In reply to z31maniac :

Please, let us not for a minute hold up google results as impartial or authoritative.  The results are as you say, trying "to push an agenda" and they're getting sued for it.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/02/07/google-shopping-lawsuit/

Streetwiseguy said:

This thread is kinda funny, in that people are bringing up topics that clearly have a whole lotta nuance to them, but they have the solution, if only the right people asked.

Except they don't have the solution.  They have an opinion.

I think I can help answer this a bit:

I was thinking about what frustrates me these days (again, not really angry).  There are many different "issues" that are very prominent today (as like many other times, we are not unique in that way).  My primary issue is that the approach to "solve" many of these issue, by those who either claim to know, should know, or are just in a position to dictate the direction, seem to completely ignore, don't care, or can't be bothered to find the SOURCE(s) of these issues. 

It's like going to a doctor and saying your leg hurts, and he gives you pain killers.  Fine if it's a minor issue, but he never bothers to find out.  Maybe its a broken leg, maybe it's cancer... never bothers to look deeper... no more pain, problem solved!

Of course, there are some very complicated issues (few true issues have simple solutions or causes), but it's clear some very major factors are obviously being ignored in many case (or at least not looked at seriously enough) and very likely many we don't even know about.  The true tragedy of this, is that approaching solving problems this way will in many case actually actively make the issue worse.  One of the items listed previously is a clear case of this, if you even look a bit deeper into it.  Relieving the "pain" is certainly nice for those affected, but does zero from keeping it from happening again, and in fact will encourage it to happen again!  I see this happening in numerous areas these days.

You can call them unintended consequences, which is entirely true.  But calling them unavoidable, or unforeseeable certainly isn't (in most cases).

I don't claim to have solid answer to most issues, but I feel pretty confident in many cases when I see a "solution" that is just wrong or in the least the wrong approach (for the reason above).  My wish is that "they" would at least provide some research / evidence / evaluation that shows how these solutions or proposed solution address the SOURCE (factors) of the issue or that they have any idea what the factors are!  (this can never be perfect, but at least put in some effort!)

And that, is my opinion.  Shoot it down if you wish.  I support any efforts to do so.

aircooled said:

Streetwiseguy said:

This thread is kinda funny, in that people are bringing up topics that clearly have a whole lotta nuance to them, but they have the solution, if only the right people asked.

Except they don't have the solution.  They have an opinion.

I think I can help answer this a bit:

I was thinking about what frustrates me these days (again, not really angry).  There are many different "issues" that are very prominent today (as like many other times, we are not unique in that way).  My primary issue is that the approach to "solve" many of these issue, by those who either claim to know, should know, or are just in a position to dictate the direction, seem to completely ignore, don't care, or can't be bothered to find the SOURCE(s) of these issues. 

It's like going to a doctor and saying your leg hurts, and he gives you pain killers.  Fine if it's a minor issue, but he never bothers to find out.  Maybe its a broken leg, maybe it's cancer... never bothers to look deeper... no more pain, problem solved!

Of course, there are some very complicated issues (few true issues have simple solutions or causes), but it's clear some very major factors are obviously being ignored in many case (or at least not looked at seriously enough) and very likely many we don't even know about.  The true tragedy of this, is that approaching solving problems this way will in many case actually actively make the issue worse.  One of the items listed previously is a clear case of this, if you even look a bit deeper into it.  Relieving the "pain" is certainly nice for those affected, but does zero from keeping it from happening again, and in fact will encourage it to happen again!  I see this happening in numerous areas these days.

You can call them unintended consequences, which is entirely true.  But calling them unavoidable, or unforeseeable certainly isn't (in most cases).

I don't claim to have solid answer to most issues, but I feel pretty confident in many cases when I see a "solution" that is just wrong or in the least the wrong approach (for the reason above).  My wish is that "they" would at least provide some research / evidence / evaluation that shows how these solutions or proposed solution address the SOURCE (factors) of the issue or that they have any idea what the factors are!  (this can never be perfect, but at least put in some effort!)

And that, is my opinion.  Shoot it down if you wish.  I support any efforts to do so.

My favorite saying to people with a simple solution to a complex problem is, "But there is always frog DNA used in those policies."

See: Jurassic Park.