Why is hiring people so difficult... Sales, Aerospace, Engineering, Etc.

A couple weeks ago I had to let one of my sales guys go. not fun. I liked the guy, but for a number of reasons he couldn't stay.

Fast forward a couple weeks and I have interviewed a couple of candidates, but all have had one thing or another that make them a less than stellar fit. In the mean time I am pulling double duty to keep company revenue on target while managing my own responsibilities.

The problem I run into with most candidates is they have no idea the company does. The short answer is, "We provide Validation and Verification on complex mission critical systems to comply with DO178/254 guidelines". To most people, this means nothing and is just fluff... it kinda is... In normal words it basically means we review software(flight controls, de-icing systems, navigation systems, etc.) to ensure it behaves as expected every time.

So, the challenge. How do I find someone of a non-engineering background who can sell, but can still wrap their head around the engineering concepts? I know everyone on here is either an engineer or might as well be... I'm willing to train, but I feel like the ability to understand engineering concepts is either in you or it isn't.

Any ideas are appreciated.

Find an engineer who doesn't want to engineer anymore.

BTW, based on your description, I'm not sure either. Say it in 8th grade english.

Around here Guys with two year engineering degrees cant get engineering jobs, so they end up doing things exactly like you're describing.

Headhunter?

Hey, I at least know what you're describing, but I'm in the biz.

How much of that is selling by phone ie cold calling or is it warm calls?

Finding a 2 year engineer is a good idea, but IDK how one would sift them out. Headhunters are a no go because of HR policies.

The position is a pretty even split between new business, cold calls, and customers we have done business with before. In engineering most things are on a project basis. After a year or two the position would be mainly account maintenance, but it takes time to build that rapport.

Hire a sales guy with good contacts, teach him only the bare essentials of the tech and send your least pedantic engineer with him. The one with grooming skills that can get up in front of a room and tell a joke or explain how something works without being a dick. Call him a technical sales liaison. His job is to make sure Mr Sales Guy is on topic, doesn't promise impossibility and to interpret what the job actually entails.

That way you get an experienced sales guy who can close and has good contacts... but you still get the requirements right and the customer has someone they can trust to answer questions. And if either one leaves... you plug another half in and keep rolling.

I have an engineering degree and am an ex software analyst/ project manager, and I work in sales. Much like the role huckleberry describes.

Good sales people are hard to find.

On the flipside, if you end up hiring an engineer, can they actually explain the technical details and aspects in non-engineering terms to a layperson? Understanding your business is one thing, being able to explain it to someone else is another skill set entirely.

NordicSaab wrote: "We provide Validation and Verification on complex mission critical systems to comply with DO178/254 guidelines". To most people, this means nothing and is just fluff... it kinda is... In normal words it basically means we review software(flight controls, de-icing systems, navigation systems, etc.) to ensure it behaves as expected every time.

from working at cummins i have found that some of the best engineers are the ones who came from hands on experience, not always from an engineering background. when i ran engine dyno's here I had and engineer looking at the CRANK PULLEY while i was REMOVING THE TURBO (in a dead quiet test cell) and asked me if the engine was running......

I went from working in a shop though college, got a 4 year auto tech degree, got a job at cummins running test cells which got me familiar with there engines, and now I am a service engineer with zero engineering schooling.

So maybe the person you are looking for should be someone who has real experience with flight controls, de-icing systems, and navigation systems who wants to move up to the engineering side of things.

but you are in a totally different field then I am so I cant speak for how easy it is to find people with that experience.

What about an ex pilot? Granted, I don't know, well, anything about this stuff, but would an ex pilot who has used the software work out, if he can sell? I'm just thinking it's someone who would know how it works, and ups and downs of the particular software suite.

As someone who has been unemployed for 6 months, my opinion is that employers want miracle workers who will work for pennies, but I may be a bit jaded.

As a marketing guy, I always say that the skill of marketing comes first, product knowledge comes second. I can learn a new product or market pretty quickly with some reading and time spent with those in the know, and I don't really have to BE an expert, I just have to translate FROM experts. As long as I have good people to get answers from, I can be persuasive because I am a great marketer.

Same applies to sales. You don't want a bullE36 M3ter, you want someone who can quickly learn the concepts and translate that to the customers. My successful salespeople were always very good with the product and applications up to a point, then they turn it over to the engineers. Truly good salespeople are indeed hard to find, but trust me, they are out there looking!

Wife worked as a recruiter for an App-Sec company for awhile. She had a rough time finding people and frequently they were either under-qualified or had too many demands.

She approached it and learned things, but it took time for her to learn. You may be shooting yourself looking for someone with pre-existing knowledge. You may want to focus on learning capacity. My wife's biggest experience before the job was a Masters in History (and I think her husband being an Engineer helped).

It sounds to me like what you need is a sales engineer, not a salesman. Either that or Huckleberry's idea of a two person team with a sales expert and a supporting engineer.

I am also thinking a two-person team is the way to go. I also think that it may be helpful to find sales guys out of similarly esoteric (but different) fields. For example, sales guys from a company that does ISO 9000 compliance software might be a good fit, especially if their resume says they come from a different industry prior. That would show the ability to learn the dense material on the job quickly, and would be more likely to be someone who knows when they need to hand the show over to the real engineers.

IF you had a Tulsa location, and IF there was no cold calling or lead chasing involved, I would be your guy. My current "specialty" is industrial INSIDE sales. Let the territory reps/sales engineers expand current customers' business and find new ones, while I back them up from my desk and help maintain client support. I can talk electrical, mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic, engines (generic areas), as well as aviation and flight controls. And, I used to work Hydraulics and Weapons Systems in the Air Force and Air Guard. And, I know how to fly. I can't afford to maintain my Private Rating since my other hobbies consume my fun money, but I handle my dad's SNJ-5 and N2S-4 just fine and am no slouch at formation flying, aerobatics, and Basic Fighter Maneuvering.

A good sales person listens and learns. It doesn't sound like the concepts you need this employee to understand are all that difficult, and a sales guy (especially when they are beginning) doesn't need to know all the intricate details of a system---- that's what the engineers are for.

The sales guy needs to be able to communicate with the client, listen to the client, and get an understanding of what their needs are. Then he can align your products with their needs. If the client asks a question that is over his head--- refer to the engineers for details. Nothing is worse than a sales guy who tries to BS his way around--- he should admit he doesn't know, and reassure the client that he will get the proper information.

What you need is a people person--- someone who can speak to others naturally, and honestly. This is where most engineers fail---- they may have a plethora of knowledge about a subject, but they have difficulty in translating this to a lay person without being condescending, or dickish.

Finding someone without a giant ego is also a plus---- but can be difficult to find in the engineering ranks.

I'd try to find someone personable, friendly, intelligent and honest---- and then train them on technical details.

Not sure if it applies to your industry, but we always say the sales guy needs to be the expert in the customer - how they make decisions, what their challenges are, who to talk to about what, etc.

The technical support guys are the experts on our products/applications. We have way too many products for any one person to understand in any depth, so that is part of what drives this approach, but it echoes the sales plus technical as two different people comments above.

Because companies are ridiculous in their requirements now due to the economy.

For instance, I have a writing degree and 8+ years experience Technical Writing. Writing User, Maintenance/Service, Installation for manuals for everything from Engines and Boat Drives, Electrical Systems on naval ships, winches/hoists/cranes and the graphical interface systems on electrical monitoring equipment for said machinery (how to set them up, calibrate, etc).

Somehow companies don't think I could handle documenting an Online Help system for software, yet due it with huge industrial equipment while taking it apart, taking pictures, etc.

Oh and they want to pay for half of your experience.

Thanks for all the feedback. You are all hitting possible solutions in one way or another. We have many engineering here that I pull in as "Sales Engineers" when necessary. We have 3-4 that are really good at communicating.

I'm to the point where I would hire from most any background providing they understand the product (At a high level) and are personable.

So I have 14 years of sales background and am now in global sales strategy. The best sales people shouldn't need to answer the how questions but they should be able to answer the why questions. If they can answer the how questions, well that is a bonus but I saw that very few of them that could. Honestly, in most cases, I wouldn't want them to either. That is where they should tee up the product experts.

You need to have some one on the sales side that can answer the how questions with the technical folk but that will usually be available to them. Then you have a tag team effect. The sales guy does the executive level conversations and the sales engineer does the technician level conversations. Honestly, a good sales engineer is much harder to find and more valuable than a good sales guy. Most of the sales engineers I worked with were not very good at communications and it made it hard to take them into meetings.

Few people understand the concept of Validation and Verification. Without a baseline understanding and the dedication to the concept, you won't have much of a sales guy. You are no doubt seeing this as a big issue.

I find myself training our software developers and director in performing these activities for the dietary supplement industry. Our Software Development Director said she completed the software validation we had to complete. I said 'How can you be done, we haven't written and approved a protocol yet? What are the acceptance criteria?' Good grief!

Still trying to get approval for an Engineer for equipment qualification. Right now, it's all on me.

I feel for you. You do not sound like you are in a position to grow your own sales person. It also sounds like your candidates have not even performed research on your company by researching the pre-requisite acronyms before the interview. That alone should disqualify a candidate. Unfortunately, this seems to be more common. The right person you need is out there!

Where are you located?

NordicSaab wrote: I'm to the point where I would hire from most any background providing they understand the product (At a high level) and are personable.

Would this be worth relocating for? I could definitely deal with a little more sunshine and less snow.