Wife doesn't get it.

She's in a TaurusX. Minivan in crossover clothes. One of the reasons we haven't considered doing anything but keep that is that it holds us all, is airbagged to the 9s and still has low miles. Once it's paid for, it'll be around for years and years, we hope. She's home with the kids full-time, so that's the kid hauler.

My needs, specifically, are appliance for commuting and a backseat that'll fit three little guys in a pinch. I'm pretty sure I have to have a manual transmission, too- this crap with the Montero Sport has served to remind me why I hate automatics.

Jake i think, fair or not, some of this is on you. Probably from your wife's perspective since you are a car guy, oil changes, tires etc are just your job. Whether you do the work or not, isn't the issue, she just doesn't want to deal with it. So either she wants a new car so it doesn't need done or you do it. My SO happily drives a 98 bmw 5, with 130000 miles, but every other weekend its my job to drive it, wash it and either diagnosis and fix what ever is wrong or schedule it into the shop. Then let here take my dd, and then i get to take it to the shop etc. Now she has never said its my job, but you just know... that if i don't do it she will solve the problem. i bet some of your wife's issues can be resolved if you take the responsibility, plus if you get a used car when she wants new, when ever it needs anything its your fault anyway.

That's mostly fair, and I agree. She doesn't understand what it takes to keep a car on the road, and freaks out any time there's money that has to be spent to do so, though- I'm not leaving her stranded anywhere, just basically insisting that she let me do what I want to do (which is trade off in the name of efficiency and getting the right tool for the job), and waiting to say "TOLD YOU SO" next time one of the aged fleet needs $200 in parts (she actually said essentially this last night...). Never mind that it may have been months or years since we had to do anything unusual, and in that same time we'd have paid multiple hundreds or thousands of dollars for the privilege of not needing to fool with a "new" car- her knee jerk reaction is "new car, goood, has warranty... old car, baaaaaad, costs more money, always broken-" even though that is completely, patently false.

At this point I'm just commiserating/bitching/frustrated- this thread can't be unusual on car-dude type bulletin boards. She drives the newest/ most efficient/ cleanest/ stylish-est car that we can afford that will hold the kids and her and tote all of them around safely, I'm just griping that even though I'm hitting her with sound logic, it's getting pushed back on me as being wrong.

We're getting pretty close to a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on vehicle maintenance costs at my house, and to me that's just sad.

A success story, to show there is hope, my friends.

i was/am in this situation when i moved in with my gf. We needed a car for us/her to use daily, so my camaro wasnt it. I fought the "used vs new" argument with her, and more specifically, the "buy something outright for peanuts, spend a lil to get it up to snuff, versus making payments on anything contemporary" argument. It came to "well, if you want that, then you pay for it and its maintenance" which was when she wanted an A4, jetta, newish bmw, etc...I dont know that i woulda been able to stick to that, but lord knows i made sure i sounded like i meant business haha.

So we were looking at old volvo 240s and the like. We wound up getting a $1000 peugeot 505 - i checked it out thoroughly, got into the forums for it, and got her to agree (it had AC, power windows, etc, even heated seats, so at the very least, it fulfilled those kind of requirements). That was over 2 years and 40k miles ago.. In that time, she's seen friends buy brand new cars, and at first there was that bit of jealousy. "Well, so and so got one, and they havent had any problems!" Then time passed. Friend's new cars go back to dealers, random electrical problems, CELs going on and off, etc. But our peugeot soldiered on, just with oil changes and brake pads and tires at one point. It took patience and time, but from the examples set by those around her, she came to see the value of a solid old car (its an '84 - i dont consider that "old" but im using her word heh). Now that im bored of the slow ass peugeot (i do like the car a lot, but man, i'd kill for a turbo or a v6 505, or just anything different for a change of pace), she's veto'd selling it every time. "I LOVE PUGGY! YOU CANT SELL HER!"

now i realize a $1000 french car is an extreme example - but i think if you can show, over time, the value of something solid, like an infiniti g20, volvo 240, or loaded and timing-belt-serviced-on-time civic, you might just win this one argument with your loved one. Also, i have considered, in times of extreme duress, just letting her pick whatever color used jetta she wants, and then waiting for when i can say "told ya so!" - but that sorta thing doesnt sound like the makings of a healthy relationship hehe

and i love hearing how friends will take her for rides in their brand new cars, and she tells them the seats dont even come close to the peugeot's =) (most comfortable seats EVAR.)

get the book on tape for this http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671723650

i just listened to it and have already swayed a couple arguments my way

just read your post jake, dont think my "told ya so" bit was a jab at you (i mustve still been typing my response when yours posted). If it helps, and if shes into spreadsheets, make a cost analysis of new car vs old car, and break it down for her. or let it be, as in most other situations with my girl, i do remember "i can be right, or i can be happy" hehe

Jake wrote: That's mostly fair, and I agree. She doesn't understand what it takes to keep a car on the road, and freaks out any time there's money that has to be spent to do so, though- I'm not leaving her stranded anywhere, just basically insisting that she let me do what I want to do (which is trade off in the name of efficiency and getting the right tool for the job), and waiting to say "TOLD YOU SO" next time one of the aged fleet needs $200 in parts (she actually said essentially this last night...). Never mind that it may have been months or years since we had to do anything unusual, and in that same time we'd have paid multiple hundreds or thousands of dollars for the privilege of not needing to fool with a "new" car- her knee jerk reaction is "new car, goood, has warranty... old car, baaaaaad, costs more money, always broken-" even though that is completely, patently false. At this point I'm just commiserating/bitching/frustrated- this thread can't be unusual on car-dude type bulletin boards. She drives the newest/ most efficient/ cleanest/ stylish-est car that we can afford that will hold the kids and her and tote all of them around safely, I'm just griping that even though I'm hitting her with sound logic, it's getting pushed back on me as being wrong. We're getting pretty close to a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on vehicle maintenance costs at my house, and to me that's just sad.

The 'I bought it new, it should NEVER need repair or maintenance' attitude is very common. It unfortunately bites people hard.

Being single (can I get a HALLALEUIA! at least my ex did see the $ benefits of driving used vs new) I'm not saddled with your problem, but I can recommend a solution: compare costs in black and white (don't forget things like higher insurance and property taxes) and show her that it makes more sense financially to buy used, then tell her if she is willing to take the extra disposable income bite so she can have a brand new ride then by all means do so.

Jake wrote: The truck (a ‘98) and the SUV (an ‘02) are the only truly old ones that we have – and by GRM measures even they aren’t exactly that old.

'98 is old? My newest vehicle out of 6 is '93.

Yeah, my 97 Dakota is my "youngest" vehicle.

Bigger picture thinking for the sake of future GRM'ers - lets keep this thread fairly, uhm, "clean" so to speak, nothing that would piss off our SWMBOs if they read it - cuz if i was in my situation i was 2 years ago, i would have shown her this thread and saved myself a whole lot of breath.

Though, i suppose, you will have to explain what a "swim-bo" is.

Curmudgeon wrote: The 'I bought it new, it should NEVER need repair or maintenance' attitude is very common. It unfortunately bites people hard.

There are also entire magazine empires dedicated to feeding the average consumer retard's fears of - gasp - having to get your car fixed! Don't get me started on the "you're driving a rolling time bomb with potential to bankrupt you instantly " commercials for the extended-warranty vultures.

This may help: If your wife worries about the costs involved with older high mileage cars, remind her of the costs associated with new ones. First and foremost, the heavy depreciation and loss of value over the first three years. Then there's the payments which, if you negotiate well, will mean you can actually sell the car if necessary without a loss after maybe four years. Insurance costs on new cars are insane. Plus, most people carry the full boat of insurance services when the car is new because it's the only way to prevent taking a huge loss if the car is totalled in the first three years. The bloated sticker price means a large tax charge as well. Also, what is your state charging you to register your brand new car the first three years? I'm sure it's not the minimum.

So new is not exactly cheap. You may pay 200 bucks here and 400 bucks there on older cars but, by and large, they are cheaper to own and operate up to a point where they're too well-used. Look at well-kept three-year-old used cars. They still have many years of great service left in them, the insurance, taxes, and registration is much lower, payments are tied closer to actual value, and the sucker who bought it new absorbed the major depreciation hit. The only downside is auto loans carry more interest on used cars. The difference is not nearly as bad as carrying a note on a car that's lost half it's worth from new.

This is how we roll around here. My wife is rather expert at finding good value in a lightly used three-year-old car and is a sharp negotiator. We're still driving a '97 Camry she bought in '00 before she met me at a great price with 17K on the odo. Not having a car payment since 2003 : Priceless.

Jerry From LA wrote: This may help: If your wife worries about the costs involved with older high mileage cars, remind her of the costs associated with new ones. First and foremost, the heavy depreciation and loss of value over the first three years. Then there's the payments which, if you negotiate well, will mean you can actually sell the car if necessary without a loss after maybe four years. Insurance costs on new cars are insane. Plus, most people carry the full boat of insurance services when the car is new because it's the only way to prevent taking a huge loss if the car is totalled in the first three years.

One thing I'd add..I've noticed locally that many lenders will not even speak to you about loaning on a new car without the entire insurance package. It's a condition of the loan here.

Cheapskates!

wow guess I got lucky the newest car our family owns is a '91 (er 2 of em)... both the wife and I grew up in a family where we had somewhat older cars that needed work on occasion... most all of which they did themselves (swapping tires, alignments and stuff like that isn't as easy lol)... so I'm sure it has a lot to do with how people grew up... we both expect work to be needed on cars from time to time, we pay cash for cars... we put back money for it that way when something does happen it's not the end of the world...

we're debating on weather to rent a car for family vacation this summer or not... leaning towards taking the volvo and a few tools "just in case"

we're looking at buying something newer next fall for her... want to replace the rusty '91 escort hatch that we got for like $700 4 years ago... oil, gas, tires, brakes and a timing belt is all i've had to do to it... she still likes the car and i'm sure it's got a few more years left in it with minimal work... but figure I can sell it for what I spent on it those few years ago and put that towards something a bit newer... and by a bit newer i'm still thinking most likely 90's lol... but when I think about what I paid for the car and the maitinace (outside of fuel/oil) it comes out to about us spending $25 a month for it... we spend more on internet then that lol...

solution 1992 miata saw one for sale for 1000 with 250k on it. new engine transmission streering rack new suspension and new diff and axles ne tires a paint job and apolstry will still run you less than a brand new miata.

KATYB wrote: solution 1992 miata saw one for sale for 1000 with 250k on it. new engine transmission streering rack new suspension and new diff and axles ne tires a paint job and apolstry will still run you less than a brand new miata.

and then you'd have a cute little miata without all of the extra weight of the newer one!

My in laws have the 'pay more for new and you'll have less troubles' attitude, but for them it works. They practically maul the car in 5 years and that warranty and collision insurance gets used A LOT. The only good news is that they buy camry's so they don't wreck anything worth saving. I changed my (by now) wife's attitude when we were dating in college. I had a newish jetta that was, well, a jetta, and therefor didn't run when it didn't feel like it. After too many problems we just sold it and I got my parents old van that they couldn't sell because nobody wants an old van in the time of SUV's. It has needed probobly $100 a year on average (beyond stuff like oil changes, brakes, tires, etc... that all cars need). I pointed this out to her repeatedly until she got sick of hearing it.

The $100 a year might even be too high. Would you count the $150 for an exhaust repair (plus oil change and lube) when reason for the repair was hitting a raccoon at 75mph? I imagine if I hit that with my RX8 it would've gone through an oil cooler and I would've paid quite a bit more...

My son just had this discussion with his wife. The head gasket on their Escort puked. It's their only car. She wanted to buy another car rather than fix the old one. It took a few days, but she finally understood the cost benefit for fixing the old one for $300 rather than buying another one for $300 a month.

I think it has to do with how they are raised.

Her parents buy new cars every 4-5 years because old ones were unreliable. They don't work on cars, ever. Not even to change the oil, that's what mechanics are for. His parents, me, drive the same old crap, all the way to the junkyard, because I can keep the stuff running.

I think what really changed her mind is my 15-20yo cars run and drive as good or better then her parents 4yo cars and I don't make car payments. They borrowed one of mine while theirs was being repaired. Driving the point home, now their car runs as good too.

She'll come around. My wife was of the same opinion 20 years ago. Now she knows better.

My DD is a 95, I have an extra soon to be drivable again 97 model vehicle. Wife drives an '04. She hints at wanting a newer vehicle. So far, I am winning by saying "No.". The "No" argument is winning because of many reasons too. I almost can't wait for her to get a new DD.

sometimes the wife needs to hear it from someone else. in my case, she chose to listen to dave ramsey. our last car loan was paid off about 6 years ago, and we've got cash to buy the next car because we continued making the payment to our savings account.

Toyman01 wrote: Her parents buy new cars every 4-5 years because old ones were unreliable.

I love people like this. Especially the ones that take them in every 5k for new oil and service. At 100,000km, they consider them junk and put them on Kijiji, where people like me snap them up.

To me a big part of this is the "unexpectedness" of it. If you're cash strapped, that's a huge undertaking if you're not expecting it, vs. the peace of mind of having something warranteed / known cost monthly / etc.

What I would say you need to be doing is PLANNING for those "unexpecteds" with a smaller than car payment amount every month. Thus, when E36 M3 inevitably hits the fan, the savings are there.

You gotta find a happy medium. At some point, some old POS's just aren't worth putting more money into, but that doesn't mean going full bore to a brand spankin' new car is the answer.

Jake wrote: Rant? Rant. Actually, kind of a long rant. My wife doesn’t get it. She’s completely convinced that there’s no way possible to locate a decent used car and come up to the good financially, compared to a new car. I, however, am unilaterally opposed to buying a new car again, ever. Won’t do it unless my income somehow skyrockets to the gajillionaire range and I just don’t care any more. $25-30k over 5 years is a sucker’s move, paying $15k or more for the “peace of mind” of a new car just isn’t worth it. I can do a hell of a lot with $500/month, and driving around in a shiny new car isn’t one of those things that does it for me- we’ve just got other stuff to pay for. She seems to have this idea that when you buy a car (a mechanical thing), that it should require no intervention from the owner, ever. I only recently convinced her that she needs to at least let me know when the big “OIL CHANGE REQUIRED” note pops up on the screen in her car- to be fair she’s going one better and driving it through the Express Lube when it needs it. It’s taken me ten years to get her there. Tires? Shocks? Brakes? Any kind of engine repair? Those things still appear to fall into the mental category of “stuff that should magically last forever.” She has the same issues with computers, tools, any kind of inanimate object. If she paid money for it 12 years ago, it should still be functioning perfectly as long as she hasn’t actually broken it herself. Granted, our old wrecks have all needed some expensive love recently. Her car had to have some engine work done, the old family truckster we’re still wrestling with a transmission shop on a rebuild (they haven’t got it right yet…), and the old pickup is soldiering on like late-90s Rangers tend to do, but it recently needed a bunch of unplanned-but-not-unexpected front end work (ball joints up and down, both sides) to keep it from eating a new set of tires. In the last year we’ve put about $4000 in our 3 cars beyond basic maintenance (gas, oil, tires) I guess, and she’s freaking out at the un-planned-ness of all this. My take is more like “well, when it rains it pours” and I figure if we fix the major stuff (and/or possibly get rid of some of the most problematic old cars) we probably won’t have another bad year like this for a while. The question: How do you guys deal with this? I know I can’t be alone on this issue. She can't seem to see how a decently-low-mile $10k used car is a better move than a $25k new one. She's an accountant by training, which is why this frustrates me so.

Yeah Dude this is tough. I showed my wife the depreciation curve of new cars vs used ones and that set her straight.

But sometimes if you are getting a 1 or 2 year out one the cost vs interest rate change in financing makes them break even. I always look at 3 years + so it is a net win.

Good Luck I feel for ya.

In reply to FlightService:

Most banks give the same rate for 0-2 m-y old cars. At least that's what I've been told

Strizzo wrote: In reply to FlightService: Most banks give the same rate for 0-2 m-y old cars. At least that's what I've been told

I have heard the same for credit unions but not banks. But banks where you are may do it differently than here. I know that is common.

The 0.0% from new dealers on new cars vs the 3.9% you can get on a used.
sometimes they wash. on the difference