Will the FR-S/BRZ be successful?

There was a thread the other day that kind of assumed that they will be hot when they first come out, like the NA Miata was in '89-'90. Is that a good assumption?

I really hope it does well and resuscitates the sports car market, but the economy is still not great, and a lot of the recent college grads that are supposed to be buying these things are un- or under-employed. That said, I do know a guy in my non-car-oriented group of friends who plans to buy either an FR-S or a BRZ. He even wants me to teach him to drive stick in my SE-R before they come out! That's got to be a good sign.

Are they advertising these things yet? I don't have a TV, don't listen to commercial radio, and the only magazines I get are GRM and 4WD Toyota Owner so I never know if something is being marketed or not.

www.scion.com shows the car and shows a entry msrp but unlike the other offerings, there is still no "build your own" function. My guess from this is they are not fully supported/marketed yet.
www.subaru.com does have the "build your own" function.

Wow, aren't these supposed to come out next month? And Scion still doesn't have "build your own" enabled?

On the other hand, I just went to subaru.com, and there's not a whole lot there either... No options and the only listed SPT (factory performance) stuff is an oil cap and a battery tie-down.

I wonder what Galaxy Blue Silica looks like in person.

I don't think it will be as successful as the NA Miata.

aside from the bugeye sprite in the 2012 section the toyobaru is quite honestly the only car (other than mazda 2) i'm finding myself really excited about, so i'm quite looking forward to them. if its as nice as im hoping it could very well be my first new car next year. and i'm finding myself more excited the more i read so we'll see.

plus i love the fact that it's shorter, lower, and wider than my e30 m3 with about the same if not slightly better power/weight but could be a very easy DD/everything else car for me.

rotard wrote: I don't think it will be as successful as the NA Miata.

The Miata was maybe released into a better economy, but man that was a much more crowded spcorts car/sporty car market back then. Just thinking of Subaru and Toyota alone there was the XT, Celica, Supra, MR2, and I think there was some kind of sporty Corolla still around.

ShadowSix wrote:

rotard wrote: I don't think it will be as successful as the NA Miata.

The Miata was maybe released into a better economy, but man that was a much more crowded spcorts car/sporty car market back then. Just thinking of Subaru and Toyota alone there was the XT, Celica, Supra, MR2, and I think there was some kind of sporty Corolla still around.

I would like for it to be successful, but most of the people that are really interested can't/won't buy a new car.

I realize that you and I might not be too likely to buy a brand new car. We aren't afraid of having to fix a car out-of-warranty, and we are fairly likely to void the warranty anyway. But, 13 million new cars were sold last year, somebody was buying them.

How does the Scion TC sell? I would assume some of those types of buyers would be into the FR-S as well. It's also not terrible on gas, it's nice to look at, etc... I hope it does great.

I'm still trying to convince the wife to drive the truck so I can buy one. She isn't going for it.

If I were a guy without kids, I cant think of any other 25k car that I'd buy. For most 20's-30's guys the miata is still a girl car (or a gay car) and if you're not a car guy who knows, you're not buying one. This car has enough machismo to impress your friends and the ladies and it's affordable and I can't think of anything to compare it to. I think it may sell like hot cakes.

ShadowSix wrote: I realize that you and I might not be too likely to buy a brand new car. We aren't afraid of having to fix a car out-of-warranty, and we are fairly likely to void the warranty anyway. But, 13 million new cars were sold last year, somebody was buying them.

Most car guys won't buy one because you can get a 996, C5 Z06, C6, etc. for less coin in great shape. Car guys say, "Maybe in 5 years."

Most of the 13 million new car buyers aren't interested in a car like the toybaru. They're more interested in an F150, Silverado, Camry, Altima, Escape, Fusion, Accord, Corolla, Cruze, and Ram.

Something tells me that Toyota (and maybe Subaru) have a low "break even" figure on how many of these must be sold per year. (Subaru isn't as market savvy as Toyota, that's why I suspect they don't have an actual "must sell XX,XXX units/year" figure.) That said, I think it's a bit crazy of Scion to have the tc and the FR-S in the same showroom. I realize they are different cars with different appeals to different markets...but still, this is a car from a company that sells "tons" of boringmobiles to folks who haven't a clue about driving enjoyment. With as few tc's as are sold in a year, I'll bet less than 1/2 as many FR-S's will be sold. It might have been smarter to let the tc "die" instead of give it a nearly undetectable "makeover".

What will be interesting is seeing whether Subaru sells more BRZ's than Scion sells FR-S's.

My wife is looking for a car. I've never bought a new car in my life, but I'm thinking about it. She seemed more interested when I showed it to her again last night.

rotard wrote:

ShadowSix wrote: I realize that you and I might not be too likely to buy a brand new car. We aren't afraid of having to fix a car out-of-warranty, and we are fairly likely to void the warranty anyway. But, 13 million new cars were sold last year, somebody was buying them.

Most car guys won't buy one because you can get a 996, C5 Z06, C6, etc. for less coin in great shape. Car guys say, "Maybe in 5 years." Most of the 13 million new car buyers aren't interested in a car like the toybaru. They're more interested in an F150, Silverado, Camry, Altima, Escape, Fusion, Accord, Corolla, Cruze, and Ram.

Well, maybe all the cheapasses should start buying new cars again so the manufacturers will actually bring some of the concepts to market.

I think there will be a flurry of sales when its introduced, just because its a bit unique these days. Whether it has legs or not will depend on the build quality and driving experience.

Personally, I love the idea, but I just don't like Subaru engines. I spend waaaay too much time fixing them.

I personally think not necessarily THIS CAR, but the reactions of Toyoda when they developed this car will make Toyota far more successful in the future. I bought their stock after reading that and hearing about the two more versions of the Prius.

The car itself will sell OK - no records, but it will be popular.

In reply to tuna55:

That would be my guess too.

Now, if they do sell ok, will it have any effect on the other manufacturers?

I only wish I was in the market for a new car, because I'd likely buy a BRZ/FR-S. Unfortunately, I won't be able to vote with my wallet anytime soon, but I'm pleased to see a relatively lightweight, cheap, RWD sports coupe out there. I wouldn't say "no" to some more power, but it looks like they pretty much nailed it out of the gate!

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to tuna55: That would be my guess too. Now, if they do sell ok, will it have any effect on the other manufacturers?

Nope. Toyota is late to the game here, the other 86 thread brings up the other competitors. This is a very different car, but I suspect that nobody will have the wherewithal to compete directly save Mazda - and I doubt they have the capital right now to pull something like this off. GM's fast cars are either too much of everything - Vette, or too much nostalgia - Camaro, to be in the same league. Ford is doing something neat with the next stang, but it isn't really related. Nissan is building video games, Honda can't even figure out how to build a Civic or if they might someday release an NSX. Hyundai has the Genesis, which is pretty different.

I just don't see any gaps in the other big hitters lineups at that price level.

Just my opinion, though.

I would like it to be successful so I can buy one cheap in 10 years.

I hope to vote with my dollars in a year and a half to two years. This is completely unAmerican of me, but I will only bite the bullet if I get a good enough job out of graduation to afford one.

rotard wrote:

ShadowSix wrote:

rotard wrote: I don't think it will be as successful as the NA Miata.

The Miata was maybe released into a better economy, but man that was a much more crowded spcorts car/sporty car market back then. Just thinking of Subaru and Toyota alone there was the XT, Celica, Supra, MR2, and I think there was some kind of sporty Corolla still around.

I would like for it to be successful, but most of the people that are really interested can't/won't buy a new car.

Meh--back in my bachelor days, I somehow scraped together $18k for my 99 Civic Si. It was a primal thing--I HAD to have it.

I'm sure there are dudes in their mid-20's with decent jobs who will swoop these up.

This car really makes me wish I would be car shopping in the next year or so.

Instead, my wife is. She's into Jeeps.

gamby wrote:

rotard wrote:

ShadowSix wrote:

rotard wrote: I don't think it will be as successful as the NA Miata.

The Miata was maybe released into a better economy, but man that was a much more crowded spcorts car/sporty car market back then. Just thinking of Subaru and Toyota alone there was the XT, Celica, Supra, MR2, and I think there was some kind of sporty Corolla still around.

I would like for it to be successful, but most of the people that are really interested can't/won't buy a new car.

Meh--back in my bachelor days, I somehow scraped together $18k for my 99 Civic Si. It was a primal thing--I HAD to have it. I'm sure there are dudes in their mid-20's with decent jobs who will swoop these up.

It was much easier for dudes in their mid-20's to get financing back then. I just think that a lot of the guys that would want one won't be able to afford it. I'll test drive one when they're available here. If these had been around when I bought my RX-8, I would have seriously considered one. That said, I can't really see myself going from the Z06 to one of these; I'd probably hate it.