Work Rant: People are Stupid

Okay, let me throw this into the mix for discussion.

Mechanics, machinists, tradespeople all have to buy their own tools in most cases. There are threads on this forum discussing tools, pride of ownership, which is the best, etc. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars of personal financial commitment to their particular craft.

If a salesperson has to buy anything out of their own pocket to do the job, or to do it better, we end up with this thread.

I no longer have a dog in this fight, just wanted to hear some more opinions.

A machinist might buy their own instruments and hand tools, but I bet they don't buy their own machines or bits.

As a former mechanic (10 yrs) and machinist( 27 yrs) I conservatively would say that I have in the neighborhood of $5oK in tools.

That'll buy a few cell phones!

I feel like the guys who make the most amount of money in trades are the guys that don't have any investment in the tools. The general contractors, the developers, the guys telling the other guys what tools they need to buy. 

While I love having the perfect tool for the job, I absolutely hate moving it, storing it, tripping over it, and constantly wondering why I have this tool that I only used once. I guess in the trades that isn't as much of a problem when your using the tool daily. 

SaltyDog said:

Okay, let me throw this into the mix for discussion.

Mechanics, machinists, tradespeople all have to buy their own tools in most cases. There are threads on this forum discussing tools, pride of ownership, which is the best, etc. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars of personal financial commitment to their particular craft.

If a salesperson has to buy anything out of their own pocket to do the job, or to do it better, we end up with this thread.

I no longer have a dog in this fight, just wanted to hear some more opinions.

You say that you have $50,000 in tools over the years. How much are they worth now? I bet still in the neighborhood of $30-40k. The cell phone? That is worthless in a year. 

Aside from that, it is bad business practice to let employees supply things like computers and cell phones, especially if there is NPI being transmitted. The company cannot have the access they should have for security. At my current company, we have a bring-your-own-device program, but it is limited to 3 models of phone, and the company installs some pretty significant software on it to keep it secure. And yes, they pay for it--even though it is yours. 

mtn said:

SaltyDog said:

Okay, let me throw this into the mix for discussion.

Mechanics, machinists, tradespeople all have to buy their own tools in most cases. There are threads on this forum discussing tools, pride of ownership, which is the best, etc. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars of personal financial commitment to their particular craft.

If a salesperson has to buy anything out of their own pocket to do the job, or to do it better, we end up with this thread.

I no longer have a dog in this fight, just wanted to hear some more opinions.

You say that you have $50,000 in tools over the years. How much are they worth now? I bet still in the neighborhood of $30-40k. The cell phone? That is worthless in a year. 

Aside from that, it is bad business practice to let employees supply things like computers and cell phones, especially if there is NPI being transmitted. The company cannot have the access they should have for security. At my current company, we have a bring-your-own-device program, but it is limited to 3 models of phone, and the company installs some pretty significant software on it to keep it secure. And yes, they pay for it--even though it is yours. 

 

 

If you accumulate $50k worth of mechanic and/or machinist tools and sell them after a year, you can no longer do your job. Then you have to re-accumulate $50k worth of tools... The point is you can only recoup a small fraction of your investment (your estimate was a bit overly optimistic, I and lots of other people on this board have bought used tools for pennies on the dollar) if you change jobs or retire. 

My knee jerk reaction was to post something similar to SaltyDog since I've been down that road. I'm actually still on it, with just over 5 years as a diesel mechanic and just over a decade in the machining trade; first as an apprentice of sorts, then manual operator, then CNC operator, then CNC machinist, and for the past 4+ years as a Journeyman machinist. Each step required quite an investment in training, schooling, OJT and tool purchases along the way.  

But yeah, I don't supply the engine lathe, bridgeport, and OD/ID grinders I run on a daily basis. In fact I don't even use my Mics anymore since the company I work for wants to eliminate that variable and supply mics and standards so the parts are measured precisely and consistently.

I also don't supply the air compressor, machine oil, coolant, inserts, grinding wheels, the electricity, the building, etc...

It can be difficult to draw the line, I suppose. Some jobs offer better perks than others, as clearly evidenced by the "worst job you ever had" thread. I'm lightyears ahead of where I was back in '05; With that job I supplied my own tools, had E36 M3 pay, no retirement, no vacation, no health insurance, no benefits whatsoever besides the E36 M3 pay. My little Impreza (which I had fortunately bought and paid off back when I was working in a real shop from '01-'04 and making decent money) even served as a service truck on a few occasions. LOL

In reply to SaltyDog :

While I can't speak to auto mechanics buying everything they need to do their job, I can to machinists and production assembly mechanics...They may bring their own hand tools, but pretty much everything else is provided for them.  Namely all of the large and/or expensive equipment that won't fit in a toolbox, high wear or consumable items, and advanced (and subsequently soon to be obsolete) electronic/computer equipment.  Never have I heard of a machinist being require to buy their own inserts, cutters, or computers. Do auto mechanics buy their own OEM level diagnostic computers?

Hand tools, especially quality ones that have been cared for by somebody with a vested interest in them, do not wear out frequently or regularly become obsolete.  When not abused, they maintain an intrinsic level of value and usefulness,with relatively little regard to age that electronic equipment simply does not.  This also should make buying them new at full price less critical, as opposed to from somebody retiring or getting out of the trade, especially for those at lower levels in the trade.  How might your opinion change if your $50k in tools that you purchased (and kept) over 37 years was virtually unusable today and literally just worth scrap value?

In addition to functional obsolescence, it's not just the value of the computer or phone that is the question...It's the value to the business of what data is necessarily contained within that computer or phone, and the value of maintaining control of it.  So not only is a good 10 year old wrench just as capable as a new wrench, it's also not able to lose thousands of hours of work if it gets dropped, accidentally allow hackers to access your (or your customers) proprietary data or take your ERP system hostage if somebody doesn't care for it properly it or uses it less than ideally, nor will it inherently walk away with your biggest customer(s) in tow if it leaves in your former employee's pocket. 

Yeah, I get it, starting and advancing in trades like those is tough.  But good trades people also hard to find, and wind up making good money...Some of which, they know in advance, will have to be used to pay for those trade related expenses over the years.  Making apples-to-oranges critiques against other unrelated job functions isn't very convincing and doesn't really benefit anybody...Or the conversation. 

My cell is in my name, but my company reimburses me for the cost each month. Same for the internet service at my home. They buy computers and printers and software and I even get reimbursed for standard office supplies like paper and toner cartridges.  I like working for a small company. 

Want to talk company cars?  I had one for ten years and most years ran 25,000 - 35,000 miles a year selling hose.   It was 100% covered - I paid taxes on the personal miles I used.  

Now I supply my own vehicle and average $750 on a car allowance.  I lose money but I cover most of the cost.   $750 sounds like a lot until you factor I'm averaging $350/month for gas,,,,,,,