Wow, hiring someone really blows!

Im in construction too, there is very little in the way of young people wanting to do this type of work. I would hire two good laborers and two good carpenters right now if I could find them. They just don't exit in the market at the moment. Lost one good laborer to the union two weeks ago. He started with me with zero knowledge and left two years later to join the carpenters union with what he learned.... Frustrating at times. Good help is hard to find.

It's not just unions, but white collar positions as well.  I know guys who worked for large companies and expected to work there for the rest of their working lives, get a pension and retire.  Now all of those companies have eliminated those positions and out-sourced the work to contract service firms - who usually hire those same workers to do the same jobs.  The acrimony is so thick you can smell it.  

I may be looking for a new job at the end of the year. Hopefully there are companies still looking then if I need to. 

In reply to docwyte :

If I was a dentist looking for a front desk employee, I would be looking at stay-at-home moms returning to the workforce and homeschool moms. 

Hire them cheap, pay for their training, then give them a raise. 

Smart people, often with lots of skills from their previous time in the workforce, but not sure how to re-enter the workforce. 

Give them an opportunity that addresses their needs and yours at the same time. 

Your dental experience requirement is most likely hurting you. 

I had two buddies with shops, one a transmission place, the other general repairs.  They both closed because they couldn't get help.  Days after payday were rough as they would all head out on benders and miss work afterwards, or end up broke after two days and start begging for advances  Some would drink at lunch and not come back or mess up everything when they did come back.  One dropped a truck off a lift, one fried an electrical system and on and on.  

In our place, we quit getting interns as it was increasingly difficult to find one that would work and not sit around all day complaining.  We do however have a couple of good kids working for us now, one male one female, and they are excellent workers.  They stand heads and shoulders above most of the others and really make them look bad.  In fact, they aren't particularly well liked because of it.  Funny enough, it's not that they are especially fast workers, they just do their jobs and don't waste a bunch of time on their phones.

I've been in the workforce a long time and I've never seen as much apathy for working as I have lately.  No one seems to want to work hard any longer.

alfadriver said:

In reply to oldopelguy :

The golden handcuffs do work wonders.  And the loss of them can be a huge impact.

Why companies stopped that is very curious- as it's pretty clear that they spend WAY more money on salaries and churn than they ever did pay in pensions out.  Makes no sense.

That really is an interesting point . And to the comment a few after yours saying if pensions were cheaper, we'd still have them, i wonder if the full cost hasn't been seen yet . If you lose a newbie right now, you still have the 30+ year guy with pension as a backstop.  In 10 years when all those folks are enjoying life in retirement, and you're trying to get someone to do the same work for $40k and no benefits, i think a lot of companies will have a rude wakeup call .

Ian F said:

In reply to Duke :

Do you have any colleges near by with co-op programs?

We don't, really.  We're a little too far from both Philadelphia and Baltimore, and a relatively small firm to boot.  We tried getting something together with the local CC, but they are not really up to Revit yet and we can't afford to train folks on that unless its a long-term investment.

pinchvalve said:

RevRico said:

You have the nerve to ask for a raise? You're fired. Complain about lazy co-workers? You're fired. Stop covering for the lazy co-workers because getting paid a single salary to do the work of 3 people is berkeleying stupid? Fired. Didn't file a request 6 months in advance for an ER visit? Fired. Dare to remind the powers that be that average 1 bedroom apartment rent is $650/month while only taking home $950 after taxes? Fired. 

Add to that, we want you to come in early, stay late, not take a lunch and dedicate your heart and soul to this company 110%, accept pay cuts with a smile, accept staff cuts with a smile...all so we can eliminate your position without warning or reason.  

That happened to my dad. We live in Greensburg, he had a job in Wexford, about 1.5 hours each way. It was a salary position, so he was paid for 50 hours/week despite working 60+ and dealing with the commute. When he went on short term disability because he couldn't handle going to radiation then making the drive, working 10-12 hours and still dealing with the drive home, they outsourced his position. Turns out eliminating someones position while they're on disability, despite being effectively the same as firing them, is completely legal thanks to the wording. 

I was raised to work hard and always try my best. All working hard and busting my ass for any company has ever gotten me was higher expectations and more E36 M3 when I started slacking off because there was no increase in pay, benefits, or respect. Just "well if you'll work this hard to prove yourself, you can keep work this hard all the time". 

I dropped out of the labor force in 2011, just done with it. I keep thinking about going back, but I'm stuck needing to take entry level jobs or do grunt work where the first 2 hours of every shift would barely cover the fuel bill to get to and from work. It's just not worth it to me anymore to work for anyone but myself. At least working for myself, if I'm having a slow month it's my fault and it's up to me to make it better. I'm not rolling in dough, hell, I average $1300/month, but that's more than any of the local available jobs would pay. 

I'd love to get back into hotel maintenance, I really would. I even have all my tools and everything. On the rare occasions I can get to the interview stage, they realize I actually know what I'm doing and see the multiple Choice Hotels platinum awards on my resume and I'm either "over qualified" or "asking too much money". Then they wonder why they fail their annual inspections and keep getting E36 M3tier and E36 M3tier employees. It's not even like I'm asking for a living wage (In PA that's about $19.50/hour) just let me make $100/day after taxes and I'll be happy. 

z31maniac said:

Not buying it. If pensions were cheaper, than training/turnover, there would be pensions. 

There aren't unemployed actuaries for a reason.

How much unedited and undiluted actuary data do you think makes it to the CEO's desk?...Especially when it could result in middle/upper/senior/executive management may be the ones ending up unemployed because of what it's saying.

If i could only get a pension...

I don't know if pensions are cheaper or not (I don't have one and have never interviewed for a job that offered them to new employees), but after working in the corporate world I do know one thing- Just because something is cheaper and better for the company in the long run, it isn't necessarily going to happen if it hurts the profits for even a single quarter.  Be it employee benefits, R&D budgets, training, ect.  It takes forward thinking management willing to face the shareholders to get long term plans implemented.

Reading all this makes me worried. If my knees and feet keep getting worse I'll be looking at a career change. Trying to find a less physically demanding job when all your experience is in one field sucks. 

Every blue collar automotive job I had treated me like crap, all the while complaining about not being able to find techs.  Wouldn't you want to be nice to the guys you have if you know there are not 100's of supertechs beating down your door?  Want to go to the doctor for a check up?  Take vacation time or go after hours because you are certainly not going to get time off, even for free.  You want vacation?  5 days a year but you can't take them all at once.  The last shop I worked at didn't even offer a single day paid vacation plus I had to take any days the owner wanted off as unpaid.  Want a raise?  Turn more hours because Im not giving you a higher hourly rate, but Im going to cry when you leave to another shop for 5-6 bucks an hour more.  That's not even getting into the flat rate pay drama that comes from working next to a guy married to your service advisor or having a tech that rents a house from the service manager.  Guess which techs always ate first?   Having been on the Shop side and the corporate side of things, I see lots of problems everywhere, but a large portion of the automotive technician industry is self induced.  Shops want master techs who will work for lube tech money.  

In reply to logdog :

Agreed 100%.   The modern corporate shareholder model does reward short term profit to the exclusion of everything else . 

Another thing that comes to mind, if you are looking to hire quality people and you are offering less than $15-20/hr (and really closer to the $20 end of that spectrum)....don't get your hopes up.  I have heard a shocking number of people/companies/owners/news articles that all shout that thats outrageous, but for a full time 40hr position, its only $30-40k a year . Many of us are thinking "thats a perfectly reasonable wage, i dont know what these kids are complaining about!", but viewing it through rose colored glasses from even a few years ago, in the year 2000, you could:

-Buy a brand new LS1/6speed Z28 for an MSRP of $21,000.

-Buy a brand new home for the national median price of $154,000

-Rent a nice, midgrade apartment with all utilities for around $700/month .

By comparison, in 2018:

-The cheapest V8/manual Camaro is $38,000

-The median home price is $340,000

-Rent for a decent apartment (incl utilities) is $1500-2000.

To many, the year 2000 feels like yesterday, and not much should have changed since yesterday, right?  But even $15-20/hr doesnt go as far as it used to.  Most young people aren't complaining because they're entitled . They are upset because the jobs being offered, usually degree required, no longer pay a living wage .  If you have to add a $300 car payment and a $500 student loan payment onto your $1200 apartment, you need $24k per year posttax just to cover those obligations, and you havent yet fed yourself or insured (car/health/renters) any of part of your life, to say nothing of occasional fun activites, because you know, life is supposed to have some joy in it.  

I have another cost of living spreadsheet that I update occasionally, and it tells a similar story, but those were three easy metrics i could pull from the internet in 5-10min . 

In reply to Flynlow :

Median home price is $340,000?  You sure?

That sounds ridiculously high. 

SVreX said:

In reply to Flynlow :

Median home price is $340,000?  You sure?

That sounds ridiculously high. 

Data source:

https://www.census.gov/construction/nrs/pdf/uspricemon.pdf

I worry that it is a sign people are back to buying more house than they can afford, because the median salary sure doesnt support those kind of numbers. 

docwyte said:

I'd really like someone with experience.  I've hired people before on attitude, being friendly and smarts.  It's worked out, however it takes them a *really* long time to learn the field.  It's far more than just answering phones, there's a distinct language to learn, how to deal with insurance, submitting claims, proper scheduling of procedures with time given, dealing with labs, handling people, etc, etc.

I am not sure you are still reading, but I have a solutions for you:

- Put on disguise

- Visit other local dentists and talk to receptionist about a potential procedure you are thinking of having

-  Casually mention how you know a local office that is looking for a good receptionist and are paying well

-  Be prepared to pay.

In reply to SVreX :

Median NEW home price.  Which I can absolutely believe as it's been a common talking point about the housing market that very few "starter" homes are being built.  Due to land, material and labor costs they just aren't profitable.

According to Google, the "median home price" for all home sales is about $200K.

Some cities / states pull up the average.  Around here it is nothing like that high, but we have seen a 30% to 40% bump in the last year.

racerdave600 said:

Some cities / states pull up the average.  Around here it is nothing like that high, but we have seen a 30% to 40% bump in the last year.

Thats why i quoted the median, not the average.  Cant pull the value up with a couple of overpriced mcmansions.  

In reply to aircooled :

LOL!  Seriously tho, that's some funny E36 M3e right there.

SvreX, I need someone who knows what they're doing. They have to have a knowledge base.  I'm not hiring a receptionist.  Someone who's answered phones at a medical office wouldn't have a clue what to do in my office.

In reply to docwyte :

Is this your ad?:

https://denver.craigslist.org/hea/d/experienced-upbeat-dental/6628353664.html

If so, seems like reasonable pay at $24/hr x 2080hrs (fulltime) =~$50,000/year plus benefits, but I am not familiar with the field.  Have you tried using glassdoor to search other dentist assistants salaries and job postings to see how you stack up?

I really sympathize. It's tough to get skilled employees in a niche application like dentistry. We deal with very similar issues in small animal veterinary practices, with the additional difficulty of higher operating expenses and lower salaries.

Is there anyone in your practice that you could train for the position? I've moved some technicians into practice management with good results.

docwyte said:

In reply to aircooled :

LOL!  Seriously tho, that's some funny E36 M3e right there.

 

SvreX, I need someone who knows what they're doing. They have to have a knowledge base.  I'm not hiring a receptionist.  Someone who's answered phones at a medical office wouldn't have a clue what to do in my office.

I’m not arguing with you- you can hire who you want. 

But I am suggesting that anyone you hire with experience is experienced at the methods in someone else’s office, not yours. You are not gonna get efficiency out of the gate. 

So, why couldn’t you hire someone at $35K with the promise to advance to $50K as soon as they completed the specialized training YOU chose and paid for?

You get them trained how YOU want, don’t have to untrain them from what they learned in some other office, and get a motivated person who is devoted to you because you have given them an opportunity they would not have had otherwise. 

BYW, if that is your ad, it doesn’t look like a front desk employee. It looks like a full blown Dental Assistant.