Wow, hiring someone really blows!

docwyte said:

I'm a dentist.  I have an opening for a front desk employee now.  I posted the job on craigslist, Indeed and the local Facebook dental group.  It's a decent paying gig, good hours.

My description says that dental experience is necessary.  The vast majority of the resumes I'm getting are totally laughable.  It's a given that they have no dental experience.  Most have no experience at all. Spelling mistakes, live across the country from me, etc.

I'm not making this up, one persons resume, under "Education" they wrote "Some College".  Really?  Wow...

How big is the town you live in?  How many people have the requirements you seek? Now of that group how many are unemployed?  

In reply to frenchyd :

I disagree. 

Contentment has very little to do with compensation (although poor compensation will not lead to contentment). 

Job longevity is about contentment, not compensation. 

SVreX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I disagree. 

Contentment has very little to do with compensation (although poor compensation will not lead to contentment). 

Job longevity is about contentment, not compensation. 

I hope we aren’t disagreeing over semantics. If a person feels underpaid it’s pretty hard to be content. 

Almost no one works for the pure joy of the job. A big part of why people work is to provide for their family or personal needs.  

In reply to frenchyd :

Not semantics. In fact, you are making my case. 

I was pretty clear that poor compensation will not lead to contentment (thanks for quoting me). 

But you countered that with a person “feeling” underpaid. 

There is very little an employer can do to counter a person “feeling” this or that regarding money. Most people feel a little underpaid. And a pay raise won’t fix it  if you have a E36 M3ty job, or a E36 M3ty boss, or a lousy work environment, a raise will only make you put up with it a little longer.  You’re still gonna quit  

But making an employee feel important, or valued is much harder. 

My company had a picnic for the 4th of July and handed out thank you checks. To all 240 employees. I don’t know what anyone else’s check was, but mine was $250. 

$250 won’t go very far. But I sure appreciated it. Not because it was money. Because it was generous. I work in a good place, and they make it clear they appreciate me.

How many companies do you know that give gifts for the 4th of July, and throw a party to celebrate the workers?

I happen to be being wooed by another company. I have the offer in my pocket, and it’s more money than I make. But I doubt I’ll take the job, because it’s not gonna be a better place to work. 

In reply to SVreX :

240 people X $250?  $60,000 plus another $10-$15,000 for the picnic?  That is a generous place.

A few of us joke about the 1980's and 1990's when we had a picnic and a Christmas party.  This past year our regional manager corporate wouldn't cover a beef/pasta/chicken Christmas lunch for our branch (35 people?) so the salesman chipped in and paid for the lunch.  I chipped in $100?  $150?

Last summer I attended the NASCAR junior race at Road America on Saturday and the Johnsonville Brat people were holding their company picnic down in one of the large garages complete with all kinds of games and moon jumps WHILE the race (qualifying?) was going on.  I was really impressed as to what they provided their employees.     

When you find your self in a state that has "In N Out", spend time watching how a company that pay's above scale trains and works with their employees.  These kids are not all going to be there forever but they are pool of talent that work.

That, and I can order a hamburger the way I want it and it's done correctly.

You can pick out the difference between the " line" and " front end" types,  they are different.  

Now this will not work for you if you start trying to attract staff that earn tips.  They are making north of $25.00 an hour and might not pass the drug screening.  Bartenders make twice what the waiters make.  But you can find people who are willing to escape, get trained and start in the "9 to 5 'ish" world.  But what are you offering them?  Might want to work that out first.  

I find my self working around a growing number of "20" somethings that have embraced the culture of the company that I work for.  They are clueless as to what  the "benefits" are for them.  But they are trainable. 

Type Q said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I don't really do much executive compensation work. The basic justification for executive pay in the US is "everybody is doing it." Executive pay is much higher in the US than most of the developed world. I have often thought that some group of investors who want to shake things up should buy a big enough stake in a company that the Board of directors has to listen. Then put forward a share holder resolution demanding that BOD look at offshoring the executive rolls. If you can get the same caliber of executive talent in Seoul, Munich or Zurich, for half the cost, that is millions if not tens of millions of Dollars in shareholder value being wasted.

I have thought this many times while I worked at a cheap sodapop company that made cheap sodapop that was actively outsourcing everyone they could.  The CEO was raking in millions.  VP's too.  I thought, "Ya know, I bet I could find someone in Mumbai that would be happy to be CEO for only 1 million a year, versus the 25 we're paying this idiot.  In fact, I bet that I could get one for fifty large a year.  Think of the savings...."

In reply to frenchyd :

I live in a large metro area, several million people.  Lots of qualified people that I'm sure many are looking for a job

Another pool of trainable candidates are kids in sports and band.  The coaches of your local high school, community college and local university know the kids that have and are willing to do the work to get playing time.  That and number of hours they spend practicing to advance to play the "fun"parts in a performance are known to the conductor.

Again, what are you going to be offering them to get them on board.

docwyte said:

I'm a dentist.  I have an opening for a front desk employee now.  I posted the job on craigslist, Indeed and the local Facebook dental group.  It's a decent paying gig, good hours.

My description says that dental experience is necessary.  The vast majority of the resumes I'm getting are totally laughable.  It's a given that they have no dental experience.  Most have no experience at all. Spelling mistakes, live across the country from me, etc.

I'm not making this up, one persons resume, under "Education" they wrote "Some College".  Really?  Wow...

I have to ask if your position, by itself ,pays a living wage?

A lot of industry today relies on impoverished workers and wealthy clients in order for the business model to work.

If the job does not pay enough to live on, all you will attract is zombies.

Here in Canada dentist are known for not hiring full time, so even if the hourly is reasonable, they need to find three jobs to make a living.

By the way, finding someone who "Knows" dentistry without being a dentist is a long shot. Where they going to get that experience?

In broader terms, I believe that the workforce has gone from symbiotic to parasitic. It was industry, in the name of efficiency, who quit their commitment to the worker about 30 years ago. This is when in-house training and pensions started to die out. ( funny enough about the same time your liberal arts degree became useless)  Asking for a raise is no longer acceptable  as it is seen as blackmail and even if agreed to, the employee is not trusted and is put under a glass ceiling. Easier to just look for advancement outside of your current place.

My wife is a certified dental assistant but doesn't have much experience. She has a hard time finding jobs that'll hire her minor experience. She's also in school and is a mother and wife/military spouse. They all want experienced folks but eventually the young ones will be needed to replace all that experience. She'll be a dental hygienist soon and i wonder how hard will it be to find a job with no experience. Currently she does pharmaceutical sales which she does very well, was hired with zero experience in pharmaceuticals or sales. 

Doc do you have any advice? 

My local Chic Fila is hiring "team members" for full time at $12 an hour. Minimum wage here is $7.25. Hmm

The company I work for now has a “shares” program that saves a percentage of your contribution to the company bottom line for you monthly for seven years; it isn’t your money unless you stay the seven years. I’ve seen people handed big cardboard checks for $600,000 which is enough to keep people on board even if your check in $25,000.  Weird concept but it appears to work as their turnover at that level is very low.

Okay I've had a few beers but I'm seeing the diminishing slice of the pie perspective more than I'm seeing the expanding pie line of thought. Dives back into his beer.

In reply to chandler :

Huh, I wonder where this is.....

docwyte said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I live in a large metro area, several million people.  Lots of qualified people that I'm sure many are looking for a job

Thanks for that clarification. Not at all what I’d envisioned, so clearly I was wrong.  Is your industry served by headhunters?  

I have mixed view points on them. I hate the percentage of wages that goes to the headhunter instead of the worker. On the other hand I understand how the flood of applicants makes selection difficult.  Some industries the only way to get a job is through a headhunter.  HR departments play word games and you need the magic formula to get past HR but playing word games may not be a skill set otherwise well qualified candidates posses.

So the HR recommended candidate winds up being completely wrong for the position.  However management winds up accepting that candidate rather than starting over. 

( I don’t think that applies in your case) 

SVreX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Not semantics. In fact, you are making my case. 

I was pretty clear that poor compensation will not lead to contentment (thanks for quoting me). 

But you countered that with a person “feeling” underpaid. 

There is very little an employer can do to counter a person “feeling” this or that regarding money. Most people feel a little underpaid. And a pay raise won’t fix it  if you have a E36 M3ty job, or a E36 M3ty boss, or a lousy work environment, a raise will only make you put up with it a little longer.  You’re still gonna quit  

But making an employee feel important, or valued is much harder. 

My company had a picnic for the 4th of July and handed out thank you checks. To all 240 employees. I don’t know what anyone else’s check was, but mine was $250. 

$250 won’t go very far. But I sure appreciated it. Not because it was money. Because it was generous. I work in a good place, and they make it clear they appreciate me.

How many companies do you know that give gifts for the 4th of July, and throw a party to celebrate the workers?

I happen to be being wooed by another company. I have the offer in my pocket, and it’s more money than I make. But I doubt I’ll take the job, because it’s not gonna be a better place to work. 

 

That. Sounds like a smart company.  May I assume they do something similar for Christmas? ( when most bonuses are handed out?) 

You hit the nail on the head about a bad ( ? Sorry I don’t know internet abbreviations) boss or company.

As far as  the word “ feeling”  that was a poor choice.  If an employee knows that most workers successfully doing a job earn $100,000+  and they are paid $65,000 they will feel under paid.  Perhaps I should have said knowledge or some other word.  

I do know that when a lot of previously well paid public employees were let go because the job was privatized they were hired back at lower wages without benefits or not rehired at all.  

I’ve  also worked for private companies that have done the same thing with management changes.  Replaced one well paid successful older employee with 2 or 3 younger people hoping one of the younger cheaper employees fills the shoes of the older successful employee.

In that situation if successful I really hope the younger employee takes that better paying job as soon  as possible.  

If a company does stuff like that employees should treat companies like a stepping  stone.  Fair is Fair!  

Dr. Hess said:

Type Q said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I don't really do much executive compensation work. The basic justification for executive pay in the US is "everybody is doing it." Executive pay is much higher in the US than most of the developed world. I have often thought that some group of investors who want to shake things up should buy a big enough stake in a company that the Board of directors has to listen. Then put forward a share holder resolution demanding that BOD look at offshoring the executive rolls. If you can get the same caliber of executive talent in Seoul, Munich or Zurich, for half the cost, that is millions if not tens of millions of Dollars in shareholder value being wasted.

 

I have thought this many times while I worked at a cheap sodapop company that made cheap sodapop that was actively outsourcing everyone they could.  The CEO was raking in millions.  VP's too.  I thought, "Ya know, I bet I could find someone in Mumbai that would be happy to be CEO for only 1 million a year, versus the 25 we're paying this idiot.  In fact, I bet that I could get one for fifty large a year.  Think of the savings...."

 

Look at Germany!  Mercedes Benz, BMW, even VW don’t pay their CEO anywhere near what their American version earn. Yet they didn’t need to go hat in hand to the government because they messed up and can’t make a profit.  

Why can Honda and Toyota make a profit on cars  when American companies can’t?  

Please don’t tell me the workers are cheaper. In a lot of cases the workers are American!   And Japanese workers don’t make that much less than the American versions.  Nor do German.  

American  bosses earn hundreds if not thousands of times what their shop floor workers do While German  management earns only 18 times and Japanese earn about 12-13 times.  

In reply to NOHOME :

That's a more than a little bit insulting. 

I'm sure yupididit has heard this phrase "Choose your rate, choose your fate". Ponder that.

In reply to yupididit :

Once she comes out with her hygiene degree she'll have quite a few choices.  Initially don't be surprised if many are corporate offices but a good, personable hygienist is something that private guys like me are looking to hire as well.

SVreX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I disagree. 

Contentment has very little to do with compensation (although poor compensation will not lead to contentment). 

Job longevity is about contentment, not compensation. 

I disagree.

I left what was a perfect job making OK money for a lousy (hard work in lousy conditions) job in a big factory making really good money. That was almost 20 years ago. I'm still there and it was, in my opinion, one of the best moves I've ever made. I'm now in a different division of the same company which I like even less than the original one and because the wages have not quite kept up with a hot market for tradespeople I had been looking.

We were just given a (in their words) market correction increase of almost 10%. My plan is now stay there - quite content until retirement.

In reply to Suprf1y :

I’m glad it’s working for you, but I think you are the exception. 

I don’t think your story addresses the rapid job changing going on in the workforce. 

Mist people can’t do what you have done. 

I'm not sure what you're talking about, I was mostly addressing your comments on contentment and how they're not related to pay. I think pay is the most important factor.

In reply to Suprf1y :

I’m saying that I respect that pay makes the difference to you, but that is not enough for most people. 

Suprf1y said:

I'm not sure what you're talking about, I was mostly addressing your comments on contentment and how they're not related to pay. I think pay is the most important factor.

You’d leave your current employer for a .50$/hr raise to a new company with the same benefits that has a bad reputation? No? Then money is not the most important factor.