Dr. Hess said:One got busted here in town not long ago for having cats in the freezer.
Dr. Hess said:One got busted here in town not long ago for having cats in the freezer.
In reply to dculberson :
I dunno. They shut down one Chinese restaurant nearby several times in the 90s for poaching ducks out of the nearby stream. I can't find the news article now, but when the Super Panda buffet was shut down 10-15 years ago, it was because they are storing "personal foods" in the work refrigerator, including tiger, baboons, and exotic organ meat.
Fu Kwei Place, another local buffet, regularly has a live dog, the owner of the stopstrip mall that it is in, running around inside the kitchen.
It's hard to doubt reports of similar things happening in other locations when it is so prevalent here.
I'll just leave this here: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Coronavirus-patients-Travis-AFB-must-move-15079843.php
There really has never been a quarantine with respect to this coronavirus thing.
Literally millions of people left the area before the "quarantine" was put in place. I put that in quotes because it is not a real quarantine.
The level incompetence in the Western world is distressing.
The lack of transparency and obvious level of deception by the Chinese borders on being a crime against humanity.
The Chinese have clearly been lying from the beginning.
In reply to Toebra :
We could get into the politics of the "Incompetence" of the west about this, but that'll free fall into its own massive discussion. Needless to say, even if the Chinese government isn't lying about something you can be sure they aren't telling the whole truth.
The Atlantic now has a good article about how Xi's totalitarianism helped spread COVID-19; nobody wants to give the king bad news, so why would you tell him bad things? I expect soon that China will increase the quarantine and use their military now that it has jumped borders, but with the unrest this is causing all that'll do is probably make things worse.
Regarding the Travis move: You can certainly see that moving the infected to one of the most densely populated areas of the country does not seem like a great idea in general. Hey, Nevada is close.... lots of open spaces...
For some reason, Italy is getting hit hard :
Italy is scrambling to stop the spread of the novel coronavirus within its borders as cases of COVID-19 soar, making it the most infected country outside Asia.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-italy-spread-death-toll-tries-to-control-5-2020-2
The well developed rail network and free travel within Europe, might represent huge potential. You might not even find out how bad it is for maybe 24 days...
GIRTHQUAKE said:In reply to Toebra :
Needless to say, even if the Chinese government isn't lying about something you can be sure they aren't telling the whole truth.
What is the difference?
Lying is saying something that you know is incorrect.
Not telling the whole truth is saying something you know is true, but leaving out relevant information associated with what you said (which could be called lying by omission or selective truth)
Leaving out information you are not aware of is not lying, although it's not uncommon for it to (unreasonably) be referred to as that. It's also a common defense for the above.
Not telling the whole truth and lying are the same. In either you know you are not telling the truth. This is evidently the case with what is happening now.
The Chinese have been lying about this from the beginning.
Ah yes, a Miata and a 308 Ferrari are both cars... thus they are the same.
You must have fun at an auto parts store. 
You are correct, they are both types of dishonesty, but they are, by definition, different. Having shades of differentiation is very important, especially in conversations and discussions, as the world is not black and white.
Ah, the joys of moral relativism.
In reply to aircooled :
1988RedT2 said:Ah, the joys of moral relativism.
Wow, I really hope you are just trolling here and you don't think there is no need for gradations.
BTW - defining something as different does NOT necessarily imply it is any better or worse (though those shades are very important also), but it is important to distinguish.
... I want a generator for my car...
...make, model and year?....
...uh? Its a CAR!
From Medscape:
CDC expects eventual community spread of coronavirus in US
Gregory Twachtman
February 25, 2020
Outbreaks of coronavirus in a wide range of countries have officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention believing it is now a matter of when, not if, there will be community spread in the United States.
"We have for many weeks been saying that, while we hope this is not going to be severe, we are planning as if it is," Nancy Messonnier, MD, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the CDC, said during a Feb. 25, 2020, telebriefing with reporters. "The data over the last week and the spread in other countries has certainly raised our level of concern and raised our level expectation that we are going to have community spread here."
Dr. Messonnier noted that the coronavirus is now showing signs of community spread without a known source of exposure in a number of countries, including in Hong Kong, Iran, Italy, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, and Thailand. This has now raised the belief that there will be more widespread outbreaks in the United States.
"What we still don't know is what that will look like," she said. "As many of you know, we can have community spread in the United States and have it be reasonably mild. We can have community spread in the U.S. and have it be very severe. That is what we don't completely know yet and we certainly also don't exactly know when it is going to happen."
She reiterated the number of actions being taken to slow the potential spread in the United States, including detecting, tracking, and isolating all cases, as well as restricting travel into the United States and issuing travel advisories for countries where coronavirus outbreaks are known.
"We are doing this with the goal of slowing the introduction of this new virus into the U.S. and buying us more time to prepare," Dr. Messonnier said, noting the containment strategies have been largely successful, though it will be more difficult as more countries experience community spread of the virus.
Dr. Messonnier also reiterated that at this time there are no vaccines and no medicines to treat the coronavirus. She stressed the need to adhere to nonpharmaceutical interventions (NPIs), as they will be "the most important tools in our response to this virus."
She said the NPIs will vary based on the severity of the outbreak in any given local community and include personal protective measures that individuals can take every day (many of which mirror the recommendations for preventing the spread of the seasonal flu virus), community NPIs that involve social distancing measures designed to keep people away from others, and environmental NPIs such as surface cleaning measures.
CDC's latest warning comes as parent agency the Department of Health & Human Services is seeking $2.5 billion in funds from Congress to address the coronavirus outbreak.
During a separate press conference on the same day, HHS Secretary Alex Azar noted that there are five major priorities related to those funds, which would be used in the current year, including expansion of surveillance work within the influenza surveillance network; supporting public health preparedness and response for state and local governments; support the development of therapeutics and the development of vaccines; and the purchase of personal protective equipment for national stockpiles.
Anthony S. Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease at the National Institutes of Health, added during the press conference that vaccine work is in progress and could be ready for phase 1 testing within a month and a half. If all goes well, it would still be at least 12 - 18 months following the completion of a phase 2 trial before it could be produced for mass consumption.
"It is certainly conceivable that this issue with this coronavirus will go well beyond this season into next season," Dr. Fauci said. "So a vaccine may not solve the problems of the next couple of months, but it certainly would be an important tool that we would have and we will keep you posted on that."
He also mentioned that NIAID is looking at a number of candidates for therapeutic treatment of coronavirus. He highlighted Gilead's remdesivir, a nucleotide analog, as one which undergoing two trials – a randomized controlled trial in China and a copy of that trial in Nebraska among patients with the coronavirus who were taken from the Diamond Princess cruise line in Japan.
"I am optimistic that we will at least get an answer if we do have do have a therapy that really is a gamechanger because then we could do something from the standpoint of intervention for those who are sick," Dr. Fauci said.
aircooled said:You are correct, they are both types of dishonesty, but they are, by definition, different. Having shades of differentiation is very important, especially in conversations and discussions, as the world is not black and white.
Lying by omission is not a shade of grey, it's black as the night. See how that works if you were to talk to the IRS, FBI, ATF, etc. You'd find yourself in cuffs and charged same as if you lied outright.
There is some REALLY weird E36 M3 coming out of China right now about how they're handling this...videos that were smuggled out via VPN and uploaded to various hosting sights.
Do YOU think it's normal to have armed roadblocks, people pulled from their vehicles by SWAT equivalents, then the officers and the perps sprayed with a pressure-sprayer (the kind you spray weeds with) after contact?
Have YOU ever seen or given witness to an entire hospital being built in under 10 days for ANYTHING, let alone a "non-event" like the coronavirus?
There is too much speculation, not enough facts, and WAY too many co-inky-dinks for this to be ho-hum business-as-usual.
Like Hong Kong having a months-long civil disturbance, then after election results that sent the mainland officials packing, suddenly they have a nationwide epidemic that just so happens to have a hot-spot IN Hong Kong that will keep people under quarantine where they CAN'T demonstrate?
Or the only bio-weapons lab that handles viruses and bacteria in China just happens to be located in Wuhan?
I'm not much for conspiracy but this E36 M3 is unfolding like a Michael Crichton novel and China is known for secrecy, manipulation and skullduggery.
Ohhhhh, I get it now. You just don't bother to read what I wrote and just imply whatever you want. I understand now.
In more relevant news:
Korean Air flight attendant who flew to LA reportedly diagnosed with coronavirus
Sooo, there is a chance it may be loose in LA. If it gets into the homeless population (they have build quite a collection now)...
In reply to aircooled :
I read what you wrote, and you were doing the moral-equivalence dance, implying that lying by omission isn't "really" lying because YOU see it as a shade of grey. Which shows that YOUR morals are different than MY morals. Lying is lying...and trust is the root of human relationships...if we can't trust each other, we can't work cooperatively, because now we're too busy watching our own butts, rather than being able to focus on the shared goal. You don't get to backtrack your statement without restating your premise.
In reply to Dr. Hess :
About the "no known medicines to treat the coronavirus", what about the statements from last month that it responded to HIV medications? I never saw any reports stating they didn't work.
Gingerbeardman said:In reply to aircooled :
I read what you wrote...
For F sake man..
I NEVER wrote lying by omission was not a form of lying. I specifically stated that the shades I refer to do NOT necessarily imply severity. Why you are implying my morals (for some reason) based on zero information, or how this has anything to do with moral relativism, I have no idea.
I have NO problem with the thought that lying and lying by omission are the same level of "wrong" in some cases (could go either way), but my POINT is they are, by definition DIFFERENT, and being aware of that difference is important. Do you really have an issue with that?
Okay, so back to general virus questions. Myself, the wife, sister-in-law and husband have a vacation to Thailand scheduled for mid-march. I've been following the news here, and what I can find from there online, and the tracking data. I keep going back and forth on being worried about the trip. Anyone have any general thoughts on this?
We will be traveling to the northern parts of the country (very small town near the Loas border region to visit her extended family), Chiang Rai, Chiang Mai, Krabi and back to Bangkok. I figure there is some general risk, but considering the reports are now saying it will hit the states soon, are we really putting ourselves at a greater risk? The tourist numbers there are and will be significantly down and we are healthy and in our 30's.
Are you putting yourselves at greater risk? Yeah, I'd say so. Greater risk than staying at home, certainly. Enough risk to put off the trip? At this point in time, I don't think so. Now, in another month, who knows? Best you can do is follow the CDC recommendations. If the day before your trip, the CDC says "don't go to Thailand..." I wouldn't go. Otherwise, I'd probably go.
Just read a book on a guy that went to Thailand. Amazing guy, amazing story. The Iron Circle: The True Life Story of Dominiquie Vandenberg. A Belgian that beat the top iron circle/pit fighter of Thailand at the time.
In reply to Dr. Hess :
That is where I'm at currently. Monitoring the CDC site and tracking numbers has sadly become part of the daily routine at this point. If it was a lot of other places I'd probably put the trip off, but having been there once before and loving so much about the place, it is hard to sit this one out.
I'm always looking for a good read while traveling, I might have to look for that one. Thanks!
As a warning, Mr. Vandenberg's movies are very violent. His life makes his movies look like Mary Poppins. I got the book used on Amazon.
Good luck with the trip.
I came to make a comment but I read the last page and left and closed the door.
Yeah, I agree with Dr. Hess; go until the CDC says not to. You'll risk illness no matter what since you're out of your "habitat" anyway.
In reply to Pete Gossett :
Well Interferon- the protein that makes you "feel like" you have the flu- is something anyone can take since it'll active you're bodies alert system. I've heard they've had some success with the parkinson's drug Rimantadine but antiviral use depends on how the virus spreads- Tamiflu literally keeps it from "unzipping" the cell, for instance- and I'm just not yet sure how the virus really *works* within cells, since most antivirals are so dependent on how the disease synthesizes DNA/RNA.
Like most viruses, it'll likely be more about supporting the body to fight the disease by itself.
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