In reply to Dieselboss15 :
Unfortunately, as cool as it looks, that poor AA pickup is now nearly undrivable.
One of our customers has one that is channeled like that with a 348 Tri-Power, 5-speed and a Winters quick change.
It's easier to work the pedals with your genitals than get your feet on them.
Our old detail guy had a stanced Toyota Aristo.
It looked cool until I watched the tire suck the fender lip into the wheel well one day.
That and the 2J-Z in it that cause one of our guys riding in it with him to ask "Are you sure this thing has a turbo?"
ShawnG said:In reply to Dieselboss15 :
Unfortunately, as cool as it looks, that poor AA pickup is now nearly undrivable.
One of our customers has one that is channeled like that with a 348 Tri-Power, 5-speed and a Winters quick change.
It's easier to work the pedals with your genitals than get your feet on them.
To be fair, a stock Ford Model A isn't really known for being a joy to drive.
for years, I had the same opinions about Mike B as eb is describing here. I've watched a few of his recent Ferrari 308 YouTube videos and it's kind of changing my thoughts on him. His personality in the videos is far less douchy than what I saw on the forums.
If you don't like stance, I have bad news about this "drifting" fad that GRM is writing about.
Keith Tanner said:If you don't like stance, I have bad news about this "drifting" fad that GRM is writing about.
That'll never catch on 
My only concern about the Stance scene is its ruining lots of enthusiast cars. There are only so many small, light, cheap RWD Vehicles in the used market and once they are gone our hobby will become greatly more expensive. When it does so, that will discourage lots of young people from sharing an interest in cars.
pheller said:My only concern about the Stance scene is its ruining lots of enthusiast cars. There are only so many small, light, cheap RWD Vehicles in the used market and once they are gone our hobby will become greatly more expensive. When it does so, that will discourage lots of young people from sharing an interest in cars.
I'm not sure that's really going to be the case though. The availability of small, light, cheap RWD vehicles may be decreasing, but I think that's more general consumer trends than anything. Older ones drop out, but something new becomes the budget beater thang. 350Z's and G35's keep coming down in price. They keep making Miatas. There will always be Mustangs.
I don't think stancing these cars really uses them up. I may not like the decisions, but these have potential to become great fodder in the future. Stancing a car doesn't increase its value. As these trends fade, they'll probably be worth less than unmolested versions. So a new owner will want to put a different suspension on and maybe change up the tires. That's hardly a big deal, since they'd want to do that anyway.
I think these stanced cars are no worse opportunity to become future motorsports beaters than if they'd been left unmolested.
In reply to pheller :
How many muscle cars got wadded up at a dragstrip? There are still 100s that show up every weekend at the strip. People lament 240SXs dying at the hands of novice drifters, but no one bought a lot of those secretary cars 30 years ago, so there weren't many to begin with. How many enthusiast cars are irrevocably altered in pursuit of...a magazine contest?
In reply to Beer Baron :
We did have a GRM forum member try to rehabilitate a stanced Miata. IIRC it was damaged quite badly and it was not a happy ending to the story. So it may not be worthwhile for a stanced car to return to function until we get to the equivalent point of Elans in lawn trailers.
I wonder if the stance Miata guys get mad at the race car Miata guys for ruining their cars...
I was at a drifting event a couple of summers ago. The skills were cool, but the public address guys bragging about the number of noise complaints the cops were getting was troubling. Then, looking in the trunk of an e36, I was troubled by all the steel just missing. All the stuff that cracks in the suspension mounts was totally unsupported. Worse than that was the lack of ant sort of steel that might keep a blown tire carcass from smacking you in the back of the head.
Garbage fabrication.
Appleseed said:In reply to pheller :
How many muscle cars got wadded up at a dragstrip? There are still 100s that show up every weekend at the strip. People lament 240SXs dying at the hands of novice drifters, but no one bought a lot of those secretary cars 30 years ago, so there weren't many to begin with. How many enthusiast cars are irrevocably altered in pursuit of...a magazine contest?
And people chop up rare enthusiast cars to make autocross and track cars all the time. And sometimes they get wadded up into a wall. Why is that substantially different?
It isn't
Don't look at 4x4 suspension. It's just as gnarly sometimes. Sometimes its worse.
There is hackery and half assed in every aspect of motorsports and car culture.
Streetwiseguy said:I was at a drifting event a couple of summers ago. The skills were cool, but the public address guys bragging about the number of noise complaints the cops were getting was troubling. Then, looking in the trunk of an e36, I was troubled by all the steel just missing. All the stuff that cracks in the suspension mounts was totally unsupported. Worse than that was the lack of ant sort of steel that might keep a blown tire carcass from smacking you in the back of the head.
Garbage fabrication.
At a drift event I attended, there was a definite attitude of "berk it, if it's going to break it's going to break". I saw a K24 nearly hop out of a car because both engine mounts were completely broken... then he closed the hood and went out on course. Mercifully, the engine was gyrating so much it broke the throttle cable.
People going out on corded tires, which would blow and take off half a quarter panel, then shrug and say "drifting scuff lol"
It was not a very encouraging situation.
I've seen a car pass tech at an autox where the shoulder harnesses were just attached to the back of the race seat with duct tape. No other anchors, just the power of the duct side.
I've had to retrieve a Jeep from the top of Moab Rim where it had landed in a gully after the stainless front brake lines blew out. They'd been rubbing on the tires but, you know, it's a Jeep thing. So was the badly sized rear disc upgrade that effectively made it a single circuit system. Someone got a helicopter ride to hospital that day.
Bad apples everywhere.
I've never been tech'd at an autocross
Mr. Peabody said:I've never been tech'd at an autocross
I had a tech guy try to punt me because the rear axles on my Camaro moved in and out a bit... it's a c clip axle, doofus.
Stance kids are the neon underflow, big wing and a pair of 15s kids of the 90s, just 30 some odd years later.
Kids today are smart, they'll google your name, your handles and they'll find your old long forgotten about cardomain page and geocities site.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Wouldn't it have been easier and safer to just duct tape the driver to the seat?
Sometimes it hurts to think about how many camaros and chevelles we cut up into stockcars when they were just cheap old cars. It's been going on forever.
Stance "ruins" cars, but so do lots of other fun things. I don't envy whoever gets stuck restoring my 350Z in 50 years, and that's assuming I don't put it into a tire wall before they get to it!
And if it's fenders in particular you're worried about... they spent WEEKS fixing the GT6 project's fenders after decades of SCCA racers chasing the perfect stance with the car.
https://classicmotorsports.com/project-cars/1969-triumph-group-44-gt6/body-werks/
I guess my point is this: There are a million ways to enjoy any hobby, ours included. And it's our job to occasionally explore areas outside our niche to keep things interesting.
I don't understand the mountain bikers riding single-speed bikes because it's a "purer" experience. I think it's silly, the same way they probably think all my gears are silly and dilute the experience. But I do know that the fact both of us exist is good for the bike shop, the trail systems, and the hobby as a whole.
The same is true for cars. A rising tide floats all boats, and more people modifying cars is good for all of us.
In reply to BoxheadTim :
There have been days...
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
I was once tech'd after a mini stock (stock being the key word here) feature win by the guy who sold me the 246 @ .050" cam I was running. He pulled the oil cap. Yup. Looks like a stock core. You're good.
After reading all the comments, I decided to install the coilovers I have been sitting on for the last 3 years on my e46 M3.
I slammed it and went with a square wheel set-up ... lots of poke in the front. Love it. My car, my money, I cant care less what anyone else thinks.
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