Project Cars 2

Argo1 said:

I would be surprised if times were faster than PC1.  It's a tougher but more accurate physics model. Fun to drive but a learning curve. I don't feel that I drove anywhere near the potential of the car, plus we were using the default setups.

This sounds a bit like the Enthusia title for PS2.  They went for full simulation, even showing a video comparison of a Miata in the game and a real Miata from the same perspective.  It was pretty damn difficult to drive at the limit (especially mid engined cars), but you eventually get it.  The lack of physical feedback (forces on the body) will always make full sim driving very challenging.

Patch 2.0 is out today...

Project CARS 2 - PS4 Patch 2.0

• Improved driving line assist.
• Various AI behavioural and race line improvements. 
• Multiple improvements and enhancements to multiplayer, and lobby handling.
• Improvements and enhancements to audio and sound effects.
• Improvements and enhancements to replays and replay cameras.
• USB keyboard support improved.
• Improvements, enhancements and fixes to Career flow.
• Enhancements to various cars’ handling and standard setup improvements.
• Tweaks and fixes to Achievement / Trophy unlock logic.
• Tweaks and fixes to setup UI and flow.
• Improved default assists for gamepad users.
• Fixes and improvements to headlights and brake lights.
• Fixes and improvements to ICM appearance and functionality.
• Improvements and enhancements to steering wheel support.
• Fixes and improvements to certain weather / tyre combinations.
• Optimisations to tracks across the game.
• Myriad render and performance tweaks and improvements.

Translation... we fixed stuff.

The update is 6.7GB!

From Ian Bell in response to comments about the graphics on the PS4...

You'll be surprised by the next'ish patch then. We've totally reworked how we render things with DOF and blur, improving AA greatly in many areas.

Officially had my mind blown by this game last night. 

Argo and I have been testing and trying to get up to speed. We were testing at COTA. Previous testing I was able to get 1 lap in the 2:15 range, and then they would go backwards from there down to the 18s - 19s as I "used" up my tires. Best I could do was 1 - 1.5 seconds off the bots pace, even running soft compound tires. 

Well, last night I was reading around and stumbled onto a thread that basically explained that I could not think about tires the way that Gran Turismo does. Instead, they referenced the actual, real world, guides provided by the tire manufacturers. Tire compounds are used based on temperature not pace, and that pressures are very important into maintaining the proper contact patch. 

Skeptical, but armed with this information, we had another test last night. Immediately I was faster. I was consistently running 12s and 13s, a full second clear of the bots. Ended up with a mid 11s fast lap and a potential lap (best sectors combine) of a 2:10.7. Add to that, my tires had very little wear. 

In an unrelated note, the GTS demo has long been deleted from my PS4. 

I guess the question will be: which game makes for better racing?

I am certain PC2 will be more "sim" and more challenging to drive (which I love) and appears to have much better AI, making for potentially bigger fields (if that makes the racing any better).  That does not necessarily make for better racing though.  Mario Kart is wildly unrealistic but makes for good racing.

E.g. I like driving with the hard tires in GT because it makes the driving more fun, but we find it makes close racing more difficult and less likely.  Similarly we use the "catch up" feature in GT sometimes, which is wildly unrealistic, but makes the races more interesting for all (if nothing else so that a mess up or a spin does not result in you racing alone for the rest of the race).

In PC, the better AI and the ability to run with the AI and other players, might help the left behind driver similarly.  I realize effectively "racing alone" is a lot of what real racing is, but most of the sim drivers are not trying to make a career of it and just want to jump into something fun every once in a while.

My suspicion is that PC will be better for a long term league race, while GT will be better to "jump in and go" races.  We will see.

As suggested, running a Sunday series and a Wednesday series (as we currently do) is a good idea. We might want to run PC on one day, and GT on the other and do a comparison. Clearly Argo and Argo jr.  are going to prefer PC, but the question is, will everyone else?

I hate to suggest everyone buy both games, but I am in for a hefty buy in anyway (PS4, Drivehub, games, PS subscription).  Another $60 isn't a deal breaker.

Of note: I just ordered, and got (two days delivery from the other side of the country) my Drivehub, so I am on my way.

We will probably want to post up any Drivehub suggestions as we learn them (as Argo did).  I know Dean and I use the same wheel (G27).

Argo, I think you mentioned you needed to get another controller for the PS button.  I don't have a PS button on my wheel.  Should I plan on getting two controllers? (There are PS bundles that come with two).  I suspect is HAS to be a PS4 compatible controller right? (I have a bunch of PS3 controllers).  I just ask because those things are a good $50 a pop and I am in for a big bill already.

I'm open to the idea of picking up GTS. The challenge is the driving between the 2 us so different it would be hard (for me at least) to transition back and forth. 

Do you have the excel files that Anth created for tracking the league Brad?  They make the process a lot easier.  If you don't have them I can make sure I have clean version on Google drive and send you a link.

In reply to aircooled :

No. I just have the original ones I threw together waaaay back when. If there are newer versions I'd like to have a copy. 

At some point PC2 will roll out league management, I'm hoping that'll work well and we can ditch the spreadsheet approach. 

Try this link, you should be able to download it and use it in Google docs or Excel:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10ZfVXWbleGHnLPyg0cRfcDaXeRxxKJNPW8me47DczBk/edit?usp=sharing

It has instructions in it, but if you have any questions let me know.  The primary advantage of it is that it makes figuring out drops a LOT easier.

aircooled said:

Of note: I just ordered, and got (two days delivery from the other side of the country) my Drivehub, so I am on my way.

We will probably want to post up any Drivehub suggestions as we learn them (as Argo did).  I know Dean and I use the same wheel (G27).

Argo, I think you mentioned you needed to get another controller for the PS button.  I don't have a PS button on my wheel.  Should I plan on getting two controllers? (There are PS bundles that come with two).  I suspect is HAS to be a PS4 compatible controller right? (I have a bunch of PS3 controllers).  I just ask because those things are a good $50 a pop and I am in for a big bill already.

Yes, you will need a second PS4 controller if your wheel doesn't have a PS button.  New Learning:  From last nights practice.  The DriveHub doesn't pass through headset or mic (we knew that) but it also does not pass through USB charging.  You have to make sure the controller connected through the DriveHub is fully charged.  Otherwise, as I learned last night, all kinds of issues start to happen as the controller slowly dies.

I am not opposed to going whichever way the group decides GTS or PC2.   I will probably get both (since I already did a bunch of GTS grinding).  The main thing is to get the group racing together.  There are pluses and minuses to both.  Air, with both you and Spool trying out both games, we will have a good basis for a choice.

Argo I will probably try both as well. I am looking at a complete new setup so at the moment I am looking at what wheel to get.

Not necessarily for the wheel, but the Fantec pedals seem to be a great option.  The load cell brakes have to be a huge improvement.  I know with the G27 the low resistant brake pedal makes heal-toe very difficult to practice since it's like driving a car with SUPER low pedal force power brakes.  If you are into that sort of thing of course.

For GTS it doesn't really matter though since the cars seems to be mostly modern flappy paddle type shifters.  Clarkson is not impressed.

BTW - a series I would love to do in PC2 (it would have to be spec series unfortunately) would be Lotus Type 38's with the requirement of no ABS, no aids, and you must use a clutch.  Obviously this would be a huge challenge and unfortunately would likely eliminate most wheel users.  Either way, that is one of the first cars I am going to try (and certainly spin) in PC.

Oh, I have another question: does PC happen to emulate the brake of the early race cars, as in they overheat rather easily and you left with almost no brakes after a few hard laps?

Brake temp is definitely in the game. It's easy to over heat as well as it is to not get enough heat, both affect brake performance. 

Brakes balance and venting (if applicable) are usually the first 2 things I tune in any setup. If those aren't right, your race will be miserable. 

Air, ever driven Grand Prix Legends?  Those early GP cars were wicked.  No wonder so many F1 drivers were killed in the 60's and 70's.  It took me six months of practice and killing myself many, many, times to break into the 1:28's at old Monaco in a Lotus 49.  Same challenge with the vintage cars in PC2.  In PC2 there are a couple of bar graphs under each car to indicate how difficult it is to drive and how high the cornering forces.  The Lotus 38 is an Indy car so it may only have a two speed transmission - as was the norm back in that era, pit exit gear and cruise - I would have to go look in the game to check.

The Fanatec pedals are a large improvement over the usual plastic setup, though it's not really a "hydraulic" feel to the brakes.  They have a large adjustment range to taste.  My set has a clutch but I seldom use it.

OK cool.  I will plan on many deaths then. 

I just watched a Real Sports on Lewis Hamiltons brother (born with Ceribal Palsey) who got big into sim racing and is now doing some real racing.  Apparently he was a consultant on PC (he was wearing a PC shirt for the interview).

Of note: for the required second controller for the Drivehub, Walmart sells a wired controller for under $30. Sony versions are $50.

Update:  The Lotus 38 Indy car is a 2 speed as is the Watson Indy Roadster.  The Lotus 56 Indy turbine car is, of course, a single speed.  Project Cars 2 is nothing if not extremely accurate.

So, are any of you planning on buying PC2 before 11/1?  Trying to determine if postponing the start of the series a couple weeks would give you guys time to commit.

Here's a video of a test session... GT3 @ COTA

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/182075418

That's what you call elbows out passing....

I don't know about everyone else, but a delay seems appropriate for the start of any official series.   A chance for everyone to get situated.  Having participants together for some unofficial sessions before the kick off seems like a good idea.  From a purely selfish standpoint, I have to travel out of town in mid November so I might miss a session or two.

BradLTL said:

Ok, I'm starting the hype train a bit early... and that is on purpose.

I've only been prepping everyone since.... February.   

I am not certain when my switch over will be, although I am anxious to try the new stuff (not terribly anxious to spend the $).   Dean, Sauce, Slate and I are really the only regular GRMers doing GT racing currently (that is why we are not running normal series currently).  We need to get together and discuss what everyone plans to do.  I know Dean already has a PS4.

Spool and a couple of his buddies in BFE could likely be persuaded to participate (at least occasionally) if they can get good connections (hoping the pay servers will be better?) and they do the upgrades also.

Once Sport is release, I am guessing the GT6 servers will have about 6 months of life left in them (similar to GT5).  I am sure they are anxious to loose them.

My suggestion would be to do what we are doing in GT6 currently, but doing regular drop in races to try to generate regulars from outside GRM (we have at least  3 or 4 semi-regulars).  Does PC2 allow open rooms like GT6?  The GRMers can dribble in when they convert.  At some point we can convert one of our regular days (Wed, Sun) to a PS4 day, but I am not even sure once someone goes over PS4 they will want to go back to PS3.

I did run across a question you guys might be able to answer:

There are two versions of PC2 out there for sale, a regular and a Deluxe edition.  For some reason I cannot find any information on what exactly the Deluxe edition is!  It's about $20 more.  It SEEMS like it might include some additional content, but I thought the new cars they offered (e.g. Ferraris) where free updates.  Any ideas?

Also, what seem like, regular DLC, for what I am assuming is additional cost, might make car selection for races interesting or difficult.

The Deluxe version includes the season pass. $29 bought separately. So, 30% discount on DLC.