Help me FMV my Vibe

2003 Vibe GT. 200K. Basic running car. Needs tires. Missing a couple trim pieces. Paint is seriously faded (as in, it will never shine). Been in a minor fender bender, and the front bumper/ nose is misaligned. Interior a bit shabby. Minor crack in windshield.

KBB says $1288- $2459 in good condition. 

What sayeth the hive?

In reply to SVreX :

Pics?

I've seen run and drive Vibe GTs with minor damage and similar mileage  for sale through IAAI for $500-600. (Meaning, buy now not auction results. Auction would be cheaper!) That would be plus fees so more like $900 after fees. 

If I remember, it wasn't that long, maybe a couple of years, that Jeremy bought it wholesale.  Since then, some things have probably been fixed and some other things have probably been worn out.  I would say that what Jeremy paid would be your MAX.  

In reply to John Welsh :

It’s also been in an accident since then, and had some wear and tear.  It had a decent set of tires then. Now they are worn out. 

Sounds like a car id offer 500 bucks for. 

I bought a red one last year for $300 plus fees at the auction.  It needed a clutch and three door handles but was otherwise in decent shape.

I honestly can't remember off the top of my head what I paid for the white one you bought.  It was definitely more than $300...

Photographs well. It’s a decent 50 footer. 

Personally I think something bought that recently would need to be valued at what it was bought at. Did you get insurance paid on the accident?  Wouldn't that be recovery?

In reply to Stampie :

Nope. It’s still damaged. The bumper core and radiator supports are squashed

Full disclosure...

It wasn’t purchased as a Challenge vehicle. It was purchased as a commuter, for Sub $2K. 

Its time to retire it. I’ve put 30,000 miles on it, and quite a bit of wear. 

There is a SLIGHT possibility I would consider pulling the engine and putting it in my Challenge car. That’s why I’m asking. 

It’s too much money for just an engine, and there  is not much value in it in other recoup parts. 

Why is it time to retire it?

In reply to Robbie :

Well worn. Not reliable as a daily driver. 

...and doesn’t fit our family’s needs  

Is this a case of pull the engine and fmv it and leave the vibe out of the equation?  

In reply to Patrick :

Perhaps...

The engine out of the car might be worth more than the entire car w/engine. But generally, a car that runs and drives usually has a floor around $1k around here.

Yours is a dead brand, manual transmission, generally considered ugly, and very few know that it's a Toyota.

So I'd say it pretty much has all the strikes agaisnt it. I'm gonna say $1000 would be a realistic expectation of what you could sell it for.

I've had this truck for 7 years. 185k and off roading dents and scratches not repaired. I figure it's a $800 truck as it sits.  Come on Darth Nader needs an aluminum 5.3 LS.

Patrick said:

Is this a case of pull the engine and fmv it and leave the vibe out of the equation?  

My local pull it is $150 for an engine and $67.50 for a fwd trans.  I'm cool with that.  Of course wiring harness and ecu would be extra.

In reply to Stampie :

It sounds like you are ok with FMV for the engine and trans only, but not ok with FMV for the entire car (at a much higher price). 

Is that right?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2504509326452222/

 '03Matrix XRS sports wagon. 200k, Auto, rough. $800 asking. Daytona Beach.

In reply to SVreX :

I can see that being within the spirit of the rules more.  Sorry for the delay.  Was busy stuffing myself.

In reply to Stampie :

Enlighten me. 

What are you seeing that is not within the “spirit of the rules”?

I have a problem with how FMV has been used lately.  While within the rules I think its become the easy way out.  I'll give a theorietical example.

I have a 25 Model T frame that I paid $200 for.  I removed the crossmembers, battery tray, and body mounts.  I look up completed auctions on ebay and they average $350.  I FMV them at $250 so I'm well under the ebay selling price.  Frame rails zeroed out.

I am in the process of getting a 350z with a bad engine from pimpm3.  Final price TBD but I'll go high and say $300.  Well the doors go on ebay for $150 each and the headlights for $100 so lets FMV zero out the 350z.  As I said above my junkyard is $150 for an engine and the hatch with spoiler is worth more so self trade FMV a replacement engine in.  I have a straight axle I paid $120 for but that's less than two 350z seats so I'll self trade for that also.

I got an Audi 4000 CS Quattro for free off the board.  It has some heim joints I can use so now I have a free parts car to self trade with.  I think its tranmission is well over the $350 a roll cage cost so free roll cage.

I also have a free 76 BMW 2002 parts car and I think its shift knob is great for this build.  It's transmission and diff gets self traded for a Kirkey seat I have ~$25 in plus $300 in miscellaneous parts I need to finish my build.

Now I have the perfect $0 Challenge build with 30 minutes of Ebay research.  Would you want to compete against that?

In your case above I personally feel a two year old purchase is too recent to FMV the whole car.  By doing so you get the benefit of recovery from the car as a whole allowing you to zero out the parts you use.  By FMV just the parts you use its just like you went to the junkyard and pulled them.  

Respectfully,

Stampie

Stampie said:

I have a problem with how FMV has been used lately.  While within the rules I think its become the easy way out. 

(lots of trading, using ebay pricing, and JY  pricing to zero out cars and parts)

Now I have the perfect $0 Challenge build with 30 minutes of Ebay reasearch.  Would you want to compete against that?

Respectfully,

Stampie

Yes-yes I would. You have masterfully used to rules to your advantage to give yourself a budget advantage over others who are not as good at it as you are. That is only one component. The real question is can you put it together to build a competitive car for the overall? 

In reply to Stampie :

Absolutely.  Sounds cool.

For the record, I agree.  I think FMV has been grossly abused.  (although in the 15 years I have been doing the Challenge, I don't think I have ever FMVed anything).  However, my question is clearly in the rules, and since the staff has chosen to allow this for quite a few years, I would suggest that it is also clearly within the intent of the rules.  It may not be the way you or I would write the rules, but we don't get to make those decisions.

I disagree with you about the benefit of me zeroing out the parts I use.  I see it as a detriment.  By attempting to include an entire car for a few parts I could buy for a couple hundred dollars, I will end up completely consuming my recoup budget.  That puts me at a $1000 disadvantage.

For me, the reasoning is really quite simple.  I want a 2ZZ for my project.  I have a 2ZZ in an existing car.  I will be selling the car soon cheap. I see no reason to not consider using it, if it is within the rules.  It is.

BTW... the other thing that would happen to me if I did this is that I would no longer be competing with YOU directly for the under $1000 category.  If I FMV my Vibe, I will need the entire $2K budget.  If I do not, I will be deeply under $1K.  

There are a lot of different ways to compete in the $2000 Challenge.