What’s considered insider?

If you post on a public forum (like this one) looking for a part, and someone responds and you make deal for the part, is that considered an insider deal?

Just trying to figure all this out before I get started....

As in someone is like "i have that, what's your address?"

yeah that's free stuff, insider is like "i gave my mom $50 for her grand national"

Patrick said:

"i gave my mom $50 for her grand national"

Is that what y'all call it in Ohio?

Patrick said:

As in someone is like "i have that, what's your address?"

yeah that's free stuff, insider is like "i gave my mom $50 for her grand national"

Actually, not correct.  I asked essentially the same question and Tom quoted this rule at me:

"Any inside deals—parts, whole cars, trades, donations, stolen parts, etc.—must be added to the budget at fair market value. "

You'll note the term "donations" is listed, and somebody sending you something for free for Challenge-related purposes, knowingly or unknowingly, is most definitely a donation, solicited or unsolicited. And really, this probably applies to everything other than something explicitly publicly advertised as being free, or being found on the side of the road/in the garbage.

darkbuddha said:

Patrick said:

As in someone is like "i have that, what's your address?"

yeah that's free stuff, insider is like "i gave my mom $50 for her grand national"

Actually, not correct.  I asked essentially the same question and Tom quoted this rule at me:

"Any inside deals—parts, whole cars, trades, donations, stolen parts, etc.—must be added to the budget at fair market value. "

You'll note the term "donations" is listed, and somebody sending you something for free for Challenge-related purposes is most definitely a donation, solicited or unsolicited. And really, this probably applies to everything other than something explicitly publicly advertised as being free, or being found on the side of the road/in the garbage.

And thus the "the price is right" game show $1 bid has been reborn. 

Not donations but agreed upon price from a request?

In reply to darkbuddha :

I'm gonna disagree with your interpretation on that one.

The inclusion of the word "donation" does not make it an insider deal, just as the words "whole cars" does not make it an insider deal.  Those are simply a list to say that ALL forms of insider deals must be FMVed.  It doesn't mean that all those things are insider deals.

An insider deal is a special deal that is available to only one person because of a unique relationship with the seller, and is not available to the general public.  
 

If I offer my car for free to any Challenger on this forum, it's not a donation. It's a free car.  And it's not an insider deal.  If my car is for sale for $500 publically but I offer it to Patrick for free because he's my friend, THAT'S an insider deal. 

TurboFource said:

If you post on a public forum (like this one) looking for a part, and someone responds and you make deal for the part, is that considered an insider deal?

 

Just trying to figure all this out before I get started....

What you described is not an insider deal, unless the responder is giving you a deal he wouldn't offer to anyone else.

Here's a current example:

Free parts

Those are free parts. It's not an insider deal, and it's not a donation. 

SV reX said:

Here's a current example:

Free parts

 

Those are free parts. It's not an insider deal, and it's not a donation. 

Those are advertised as free publicly, which seems different from someone coming to you specifically and offering free parts. But for arguements' sake, let's say they are the same, both non-inside free parts. What about if a shop/business comes to you, that you have no relationship or association with, and offers you free parts? Let's say a stand-alone ecu setup? Or a rebuilt trans? Or entire built engine? Or a complete built race car? They ask for nothing in return, offer it for free, to you specifically, because reasons. Still free?

But really, perhaps what I need is an explicit definition of what "inside" means to feel better about taking that free engine from that shop.

BTW, my post from a while back...  https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/2000-challenge/free-parts-questions/216676/page1/

I suppose that I read Tom's quoting of the rules to me very strictly, with phrases like "Free parts must be known to and available to the public" meaning that it needed to be widely and readily known to and available to all of the public, not just when announced to and specifically offered to a individual. I then read that the term "donation" means something different from widely and readily available to the public, and specified for an individual.

I'll admit this is a strict reading, but I was looking to be sure I was adhering to the rules.

In reply to darkbuddha :

If they would have offered it to anyone, it's free. If they are offering it to you because you are friend/ family etc, you are an insider. 

SV reX said:

In reply to darkbuddha :

If they would have offered it to anyone, it's free. If they are offering it to you because you are friend/ family etc, you are an insider. 

Is it really that simple, regardless of the donor's motivations? And how do we know if they'd have given it to just anyone versus them choosing to give it to you specifically for whatever reason? Like I've been offered free stuff by strangers because I mentioned I was participating in the Challenge with a particular brand/make/model of car. But could/should I assume they might've made the offer to anyone that mentioned they were participating in the Challenge? Certainly that's the most beneficial assumption I could make.

In reply to darkbuddha :

You are overthinking it. It's that simple. 

SV reX said:

In reply to darkbuddha :

You are overthinking it. It's that simple. 

Honestly, I appreciate you setting me straight. My anxiety over this sorta thing is clearly unnecessary and counterproductive.

In reply to darkbuddha :

Unless you run an 8 second quarter mile or beat everyone on the autocross barely anyone is even going to glance at your budget sheet. 

Don't overthink the rules.