1967 International COE, Small Adventure

The 8.1 (with either an Allison or a suitable manual) or a 6.0 would do nicely if you don't want a diesel.  Or a 460 if you want to stay Ford.  Or one of the later Mopar small blocks.  

If  you seriously consider any v12, consider the BMW option too.

Do you have any pictures that show what enables the column shifter mechanism to pivot with the cab? 

It's one of those things I think about when I can't sleep at night. 

In reply to bluej :

Is there a reasonable computer solution for the BMW V12? My knowledge of them is that they ran off a pair of ECU's when in the cars. 

In reply to Crackers :

The shift linkage is out of the truck right now, but the good news is that it's one of the first parts that has to get refreshed and go back in. It's all pretty clever and a big part of why I want to keep it is that it's just neat. 

Deucekid#2 is home sick. He said I'm gross. I take that as a positive, dirt and rust stuck to me is no longer stuck to Ferdinand. It's cleaning up well. I'm going to have to think about frame paint next week. 

The steering linkage is huge and uses these big ball and socket joints. The grease is held in by the metal covers that hold a piece of felt. I know I've seen them on tractors before, but I don't know what they're called or where to find them. Cleaning and painting all of this would be easier if I took this apart, but it's going to mangle them if I do. 

Dads 49 ford has similar parts. Have no idea what they are really called though 

Rebuild what you have as long as parts are available.  Oversize pistons might be the hardest part to find.  Go dual circuit on the brakes because you have kids.  Make Ferdinand run and move.  Do your rust remediation a piece at a time.  Having intermediate goals on a non-concours-type resto will give you impetus to finish the next part.

i Got the shirt today Thank You very much. Its always nice to get to the point were you can throw some paint on a project and make it look new again 

I'm also for the idea of disassemble/clean/install and rebuild what is necessary to make it run and drive safely and reliably. Get to know it and improve it in the way you want. Then I vote 2jz or detroit 6v72 twin turbo.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/1a1ZQN6aP5k

so there is a solution to the bmw double ecu thing... and the opportunity to learn something new

In reply to oldtin :

Digging into the electronics side of things is something I want to do. Doing it with a BMW V12 would certainly be jumping in with both feet. I am interested.  

I did a review of parts. I just need to heli coil that one head, run a hone down the bores, and order a set of rings. I'm not sure Thanksgiving gives me enough time, but there aren't any financial hurdles to having the 304 back in and running before Christmas. So that's my goal, a start video before Christmas. 

Jeez, Maz, I don't know if the seize damage will hone out.  Also, the ring side clearance in the pistons may be too wide which will lead to a busted ring for sure, especially in a cylinder that's a couple thou too fat.  Somebody has to make a set of cast pistons for this thing, especially since IH put these motors in everything.

Getting pistons isn't an issue, and maybe I'll end up with an overbore, but I have to have a plan. The plan is always up for revision. 

I got my shirt today, it's awesome! Kinda disappointed there isn't an airbrushed dragon on the back but I'll get over it.

Even if you decide to buy/build something else, I'd go ahead and bore with some new slugs.  This way, you can sell the engine as a well-built going concern to someone with roughly the same vehicle and equally as demented.

Oldtin got it, a megasquirt will take care of your ills.  That, or the motronic ECU's are pretty straightforward as far as EFI/electronics go.  It's all very logical and well documented.  After dealing with the R63, I think it'd feel sort of at home.  Or maybe like looking back to yesteryear w/ german lenses.

The M70 V12 is basically two of the 6 cylinders that are of the E30/E36 vintage.  Because of this, there's a lot of documentation on running the 6's off megasquirt, so there's a start to a path outlined if you want to branch off from there. They're also set up to run twin alternators already, which I could see being a good thing in Ferdinand's case.

I support the current plan, though, of getting it going w/ the stock motor, so it's a runner and a driver. When you start to see what paths Ferdinand wants to lead you down, just imagine the sweet v12 noises.  Especially so for a truck that ultimately may be race inspired and named after a bull.. 

mazdeuce said:

In reply to 96extcab :

I'm blown away that any two people in the world own both an 911 AND an International cabover. We should hang out. Was your truck chopped down even more than mine? What is the bed on it? I'd love more pictures, I'm forgetting what these look like assembled and I'm happy to see what the bumper line is supposed to look like without the spacers mine has. Looks nice. 

We seem to be few and far between; let's face it, it's probably the two of us.  We should make that happen, somehow.  I think it originally was that short, and now just has a simple wooden flatbed on it.  The truck is currently in storage at my dad's a couple hours away (where the other dozen late-50's to mid-70's medium and heavy duty trucks reside...) but I'll grab some photos next time I go up to work on anything.  To be honest, we've had the truck for years, and it's moved under it's own power once.  The cab lift mechanism is shot, so getting the cab up, even to be able to start it after all of the hibernation, is going to be difficult.

My goal is to bring it down to my house to work on it in the next year...or two...as soon as I get the $500 59 Dodge D-600 dump truck sitting next to my garage running right. And before that I've got an LQ4 to pull and put a cam in...and before that I've got a track day to prep the car for....hmmmm...

The metal covers on the tie-rod / drag-link ends are made of soft tin, they can be bent and unbent without too much worry.

You should be able to clean and service those joints without too much trouble.

It's a good bet they are quite a bit larger than the easily available Model A Ford ones if you need service parts. You can get new cups and spring for larger tie-rod/drag-link ends that were used on the big luxury cars from the 1930s and they might be the right size though you would have to ask for dimensions before ordering. The folks at Classic and Exotic parts might have what you need for a price.

Parts for the 304 should be easy to source, they went in all the light line trucks until they stopped making the Scout in 1981. They kept the 345 from the SV series v8s (big brother to the 304) in service in bread trucks and such until the early 1990s.

If you can find one for sale, any 266, 304, 345 or 392 should bolt up and fit just fine. The larger v8s (MV series) were intended for OTR trucks and probably won't fit the chassis. The largest ones (LV series) were stationary powerplants and are out of the question.

If you go with an automatic, the IHC v8s came with a Chrysler 727 in an IHC case. The torque converter is a bit funky because the IHC engines have the ring gear on the flexplate instead of the torque converter like conventional Chrysler transmissions. Don't let the transmission shop try to sell you a "custom torque converter" or some bullE36 M3 like that. Just tell them you need an AMC torque converter, it's the same thing.

If you need to remove and re-install the hard coolant pipes to the water pump: Clean up the hole and the end of the pipe with a wire brush, install a fresh o-ring in the groove on the pipe, lube the o-ring well with brake fluid and stuff the pipe back in the holes. The brake fluid swells the o-ring and makes it seal properly. This is the way the factory service manual tells you to do it.

One nice thing is that IHC V8s use an SAE bellhousing so lots of engines that were intended for industrial service (Cummins, etc) should bolt up to whatever transmission it came with.

Even if you decide to go with another powerplant, IHC SV engines are huge, about the size of a big block Chevy so any big V8 will fit in the hole. I'd lean towards a Cadillac 500 myself.

I would suggest keeping and rebuilding that SV series V8, they're one of the best domestic engines ever built unless you're looking for fuel economy.

IHC v8s have:

Hardened valve seats.

Sodium filled valves.

High nickel content in the block so it almost never wears out.

Gear driven camshaft, no chain to wear out.

A deep-skirted block.

Shaft-mounted rockers.

The lifters are bigger around than your thumb, very little wear thanks to lots of surface area.

The intake is separate from the valley pan so no unnecessary heating of the manifold by the engine oil.

The factory used to recommend a 500,000 mile overhaul on these engines.

I think that's everything I remember. I used to own a couple old International trucks and I love them. Easily the best domestic trucks ever built.

So glad I found this site. The knowledge base around here is unbelievable!

I'm new here, but a long time lurker...

2 stroke diesel FTW!

Got my package today, shirts and decals look awesome! Thanks Mazdeuce! I have made a donation to the Red Cross in your honor. 

Just to crunch some numbers, there are pretty much as I see it four tiers for putting the engine back together (prices from O'Reilly's website):  Clean and re-assemble, replace minimum of parts and re-assemble, actually rebuild the short block and just clean and reinstall your heads, or completely rebuild the long block.

In all those options you're going to need at least the oil pan, timing cover, and main seal gaskets, or what's called a conversion gasket set, to complement the head gasket set you have.  That's $44.  You will also need a fuel pump ($24) and at least a carb kit ($25), as well as plugs ($27), wires ($30), cap ($21), rotor ($6), points ($15), and condenser ($9) and I would do the expansion plugs ($20) as well.  Total so far $221 for reassemble as-is, plus a dingle-ball hone to knock some rust off the cylinders.

Minimum parts replacement adds at least a set of rings ($90) and maybe a couple of pistons ($50 each).

Rebuilding the short block adds a set of pistons, set of rings, and new main, rod and cam bearings.  The price of the individual parts adds up quickly to make the Kits a better deal.  Looks like pistons, rings, bearings, and gaskets for $575 with an oil pump kit or $694 with a new oil pump. (oil pumps really are $180-350, and kits to rebuild them are $70! Yikes!)  Adding a new cam, lifters and timing components into the kit adds about $150, which is probably good $.  So short block with new pistons, cam, bearings, gaskets, plugs and the works @$830, but you won't need to spend $65 of those put it back together expenses because they are included.  Plus machine work, which for a clean, bore, and install cam bearings is generally @$250-500 last time I looked, MazD will have to call around for local #s these days, and that assumes the crank doesn't need to be turned.  I think that's a safe bet, looking at the bearings, but if crank work is required that could add another $5-700.

Rebuilding the entire long block includes going through the heads and replacing valves and polishing or cutting them into their seats.  I think in an IH you won't have to install hardened exhaust seats for unleaded gas, but it's something to check.  I had a pair of Mopar 413 heads done recently for @$350 only replacing the valves that needed it (all the exhaust and 1 intake) and installing hardened exhaust seats in all 8 holes.  I would imagine costs are about the same.

So, total rebuild could be @$15-1700 all in for a new running motor in the truck, most likely with a warranty from the machine shop.  I would expect that most machine shops can get pistons cheaper, as well as a lot of the other parts, that's been my experience in the past. 

I'd call around to see what machine shops charge for the block work and go from there. 

TherealAJ said:

So glad I found this site. The knowledge base around here is unbelievable!

Isn't it though? And not just Trans_Maro's encyclopedic knowledge of International engines (huge thank for that) but a half dozen posts above is a video showing how to run a BMW V12 off megasquirt. How cool is that?

In reply to EastCoastMojo and EvanB and everyone else who got a shirt:

I'm glad you like them. Wear them out.

In reply to braaaap:

Thanks for joining, and you're not wrong, a two stroke Detroit would be epic. Maybe round two?

The plan today was to take it easy so I'm rested for autocross tomorrow. Started by dealing with the new vinyl cutter. It seems that someone thinks I've been dreaming too small. I suspect they want me to cut a giant dragon riding a unicycle for the side of their van.

It works. I cut numbers for the side of the van. Tomorrow should be fun.

And then I was just going to poke around a bit and not really do work, but of course I started taking things apart. The cab release has never worked. Oldopelguy unscrewed the retaining plate from the inside of the cab to get things open. This needs to be fixed before I drive anywhere. It's a clever system and I'll try to walk through it with pictures, but this is one thing that really needs a video when I get it back together. The latch is operated by the lever that's on the drivers side of the cab.

That goes to the spring loaded plate that should be bolted to the cab.

This controls the double bars that lock everything.

And those pop onto the plate with pins that is on the top of the cab support.

This is all pretty normal, like a huge hood release, but here's where it gets cool. Big trucks twist, a lot. To deal with that, the plate with the pins slides on a rail that is bolted to the top of the cab support.

And that lets the cab basically float, with the front cab joints being the only rigid attachment points. If someone was really creative it would be easy to add some degree of air ride or other suspension to the back of the cab to smooth the ride out. These are all of the pieces of the cab support complex. I need to figure out how to paint. HPLV gun? Brush? I'm going to use implement paint with hardener.

And last but not least, the little kids had a Lego car building contest this morning. I declared Deucekid#3 the winner, for obvious reasons.

In reply to oldopelguy :

I think I'm good with gaskets. I have the whole set including valve seals and the whole lot. You probably have a better idea of what it costs than I do. Fuel pump still pumps when I move the lever. I should replace the diaphragm anyway. Plugs wires and ignition stuff is just part of playing with cars. Rings and a hone are about $150. But yes, things add up. This doesn't even get into the new pilot bearing and slave cylinder (at minimum) needed to get the clutch working. And then the brakes. And wiring. 

All the money I've spent so far has been for a few tools and fluids and abrasives and the like. I debate keeping track of the cost of getting it running again. My wife reads this. 

In reply to mazdeuce :

I have a Megasquirt 2 I can send you if you go that route.  I also just did a swap to an open-source, unproven ECU on my own car (I'm the 30th engine to ever run on this ECU), so I'm willing to help out with weird ECU/engine swaps.

I like the idea of rebuilding the stock lump for now.  I'm also posting this video of a twin engined DAF racing a factory Peugeot across the desert for no particular reason.