1990 Troyer Modified Hillclimber

759NRNG wrote: Any appreciable diff HP wise between solid vs hyd?

Largely a matter of max RPM. Hydraulic is the lower maintenance setup which is why it is the choice for production cars. A solid roller can also in theory run a more aggressive cam profile. That and higher RPM both can lead to more power but a cam is just one part of the system. For lots of engines the power gain would be entirely theoretical. My solid roller is a pretty mild profile and I run the solid mostly so I don't have to worry about problems running 7000 rpm. Also it's a race engine so I'm not that worried about having to occasionally check the valve lash. The key word for me being occasionally. I remember bad setups where we had to check the lash after every run up the hill. When I was 20 something I was willing do to that. At 50 something my tolerance for that is very low. :-) Check this out. Comp Cams Camshaft breakdown But here is what it says about solid roller cams Common Usage: Serious street performance to all-out racing Key Benefits: Maximum performance, reduced friction, most aggressive profiles Limitations: Increased cost, periodic valve adjustment required, not well suited for extended low rpm operation

Created the replacement piece today.

Here is the old piece next to the rod end and bolt I'm going to use to make the new piece. The bolt and rod end I'm using are both used but still serviceable for this application. I wouldn't probably reuse this rod end for anything super critical but it doesn't have any slop which is better than the old one. The whole assembly is mounted in a rubber biscuit so it all moves and peak loads are much reduced because of it.

And here is the finished piece. I used two jam nuts where the old one used one. I wanted to be able to lock then against each other. I noticed the old jam nut really kind of floated because you can't really get it tight as the rubber just compresses without giving a lot of resistance.

thanks for your cam profile response.....thought that all solid lifter cams were a constant PITA....never knew what stud girdles actually did...thanks again.

759NRNG wrote: thanks for your cam profile response.....thought that all solid lifter cams were a constant PITA....never knew what stud girdles actually did...thanks again.

Solid lifters can be a pain. There is a reason they are not usually run on a street car. I check mine once a year but I also drive the only on 6 or 7 weekends a year and then it's for minutes at a time not hours. And my roller is pretty mild. An aggressive solid roll lifter cam on a street car might need regular adjustments which would be a PITA.

The girdles main job is to prevent the rocker arm studs from flexing thus preserving the valve train geometry so you always get exactly the lift and timing you setup. The girdles tie all the studs together. The girdles just have the nice side effect of locking them in place which helps preserve the setup lash.

Any sane performance engine design wouldn't require girdles to be added. A shaft rocker setup for example is much better but the small block chevy was designed to be a really cheap motor and performance wasn't any kind of consideration so we have rocker arm studs that can flex. But as history has shown cheap is it's own virtue and once you get enough market share everything can be fixed. My "Chevy" smallblock doesn't really have any stock parts on it. Even the block is aftermarket. So various companies have stepped in and provided work arounds for pretty much every problem caused by the initial cheap design.

Gridles on my motor

Im trying to wrap my head around that torque arm setup. Most that I have seen use a dog bone or sliding link at the front of the torque arm, does the heim end slide forward and backward in the chassis on this settup?

MGS10 wrote: Im trying to wrap my head around that torque arm setup. Most that I have seen use a dog bone or sliding link at the front of the torque arm, does the heim end slide forward and backward in the chassis on this settup?

Mostly it just pivots on the heim which allows the rear end of move up and down. The torque arm itself prevents the rear end from twisting under torque. So it is a torque arm because it is a lever arm that handles the rear end torque. So the heim is just to hold it in place while allowing the rear end to move up and down. The forces the torque arm cares about are trying to twist the rear end and thus the very front of the arm is trying to move up or down. That is where it is mounted in a rubber biscuit. The rubber gives a bit, smoothing out the torque transfer. Some systems use a small shock and spring for this.

I suspect the rubber biscuit is also necessary to allow a small amount of change in the length of the arm. The rear end doesn't move in a constant radius arc compared to the torque arm pivot so to get the full range of motion in the rear end without the torque arm binding I'm pretty sure the overall torque arm length needs to change just slightly.

The new garage has walls!

In reply to KevinGale:

That looks awesome! I hate that zip wall though.

Gotcha, I have been looking into building a torque arm setup for my MGB because they really intrigue me. I think in my case due to the short wheelbase a 3 link might be a better choice on my car but I still think they are cool.

It makes sense the rubber would take up enough of the difference in length and it might even give enough on acceleration and deceleration to help a high torque car like yours be stable.

java230 wrote: In reply to KevinGale: That looks awesome! I hate that zip wall though.

What do you dislike about zip wall? I've been really happy with it the few times I've used it.

APEowner wrote:

java230 wrote: In reply to KevinGale: That looks awesome! I hate that zip wall though.

What do you dislike about zip wall? I've been really happy with it the few times I've used it.

Being in the PNW, if its wet when installed the tape will not stick. Needs to be stapled to stay in place. Same for cold, doesn't stick.

The other issue I see is the nail holes need to be taped. Even with being very diligent about not over driving the nails, it still swells around the nail holes.

Writing that, it sounds like it might just be PNW problems

I've actually heard both good and bad about he zip wall system. But our builder has had good success with it and ultimately we didn't have any good reason to override him. The house being built next to the garage that I didn't show is also using zip walls with 2" foam. The house is going to be a going to be well insulated and sealed which when combined with the 11Kw solar array on the garage should result in a Net Zero home. So it should produce as much energy as it uses. And that includes heating the garage.

Regarding the torque arm, he may be picturing the ones that are stock on 3rd/4th gen f-bodies, which just slide into a rubber mount on the transmission tail housing. It slips around in the mount a bit to prevent binding. The one I've looked at putting on my car basically uses a shackle to do the same job.

There are also fancier decoupled torque arms that allow different geometry for braking vs acceleration. Truthfully I know just about enough to be dangerous. Suspension is a complicated subject. One of the advantages of using an engineered car is that Troyer figured out most of this stuff for me.

More work in on the torque arm today. First I realized I was wrong. I don't need two jam nuts. For one I can jam a single nut against the heim. And the internal bushings lock up solid so the rubber compressing really isn't an issue.

So because adding extra weight to the car drives me crazy I cut off the extra jam nut. I had to carefully cut it most of the way through on both sides and then split it off.

After I got it all assembled I also used the cut off wheel to take off almost an inch off the end of the rod. Here is the assembled piece

The top nut is a bit of belt and suspenders. There is a nyloc with a jam nut on top. Not probably a normal setup and I'm not sure it is necessary. However this is how it was setup when I got the car and given the torque arm problems I've had I feel better leaving it this way.

java230 wrote:

APEowner wrote:

java230 wrote: In reply to KevinGale: That looks awesome! I hate that zip wall though.

What do you dislike about zip wall? I've been really happy with it the few times I've used it.

Being in the PNW, if its wet when installed the tape will not stick. Needs to be stapled to stay in place. Same for cold, doesn't stick. The other issue I see is the nail holes need to be taped. Even with being very diligent about not over driving the nails, it still swells around the nail holes. Writing that, it sounds like it might just be PNW problems

I can see where that would be frustrating. I've used it in Upstate NY and in north central Maine without issue but never in the rain. I like that you can put it up and tape it and it's weather tight. I've put it up in the fall so we can heat and secure over the winter and then sided in the spring with no issues. I don't think that it makes any difference but I've used construction screws rather than nails.

Torque arm is back in the car with all the new fine thread 5/8" bolts with washers between everything. We will see if that helps in the long run.

I was going to change the oil but instead got sidetracked mounting and installing a mailbox for the new house. I can't really complain about the new house stealing time. We are paying a builder to build it. Luke Moultroup is pretty much building his house himself. That really takes some time. Luke has missed a bunch of events the last two seasons because of it.

Tell you how old I am ....all I remember when framing houses (junior/senior year in high school)we used Celotex.....good for you on the solar array, probably should do likewise here in SE Texas. What mountain do you shred next?

759NRNG wrote: Tell you how old I am ....all I remember when framing houses (junior/senior year in high school)we used Celotex.....good for you on the solar array, probably should do likewise here in SE Texas. What mountain do you shred next?

Celotex, I had to look that up. Yeah that must have been a few years ago. I remember in plumbing when we switched to lead free solder which dates me a bit. Now days no one even uses copper pipes. My dad was a plumber and I worked with him during high school. I learned enough to know that I didn't want to be a plumber. Mostly because I hate crawl spaces full of spiders and other bugs.

The solar should be a good thing in the long run. We will see. The prices for complete systems keep falling.

The next mountain is Mt Burke again in a couple weeks. I'm hoping for good weather and for me so be a little smoother and faster than last time.

Looking at the googlemap...are the pits at the hotel convention center?

759NRNG wrote: Looking at the googlemap...are the pits at the hotel convention center?

There are some lots on the road up to the hotel. We park trailers in one and some people with bigger rigs camp in another. But the main area is the campground. Most people are pitting at their campsite.

I changed the oil in the car today. It's about 2 1/2 gallons when I just drain the dry sump tank and refill it. The entire system is probably 3 gallons or more when all the lines and the motor are empty.

I also checked the valve lash today. Not sure when I last checked it but at Burke I noticed a little tapping noise at idle at one point so I figured one rocker was loose. And sure enough number 1 intake had way too much lash. Not sure why. I don't usually have problems with the lash changing a lot. I adjusted everything else but nothing else was off by that much. I'd suspect I made a mistake last time adjusting things but for two reasons. 1) I always double check. For example this time I did the lash then I ran the motor for a bit to warm it back up and checked it all again. I usually do that. 2) I just heard that tapping sound at Burke and I'm pretty sure it hasn't been happening since last season when I last checked the valve lash. So I'm not sure what is going on.

Hopefully nothing and mayhem can proceed as originally planned

Wow , I have never seen a hill climb course with less tight turns , I think only one , no wonder you don't have shift , pretty cool though , I ran the PHA Series in the 70s in Pa.

pizzaman1 wrote: Wow , I have never seen a hill climb course with less tight turns , I think only one , no wonder you don't have shift , pretty cool though , I ran the PHA Series in the 70s in Pa.

Which course? They all have tight corners. I find video in general is misleading. All the corners in most videos look like gentle bends in the road that you wouldn't ever need to lift for.

Okemo is the most open course we have. From what I understand our courses are tighter than the PA courses in general but that is just from comments I get from people who have run both. I've never run any of the PA hillclimbs. Each has it's own difficulty. A gentle bend in the road turns into a really scary corner if you are going fast enough. Turn 10 at Okemo is one of those. For 99% of the cars it isn't even a corner. But at above 110 mph it starts to be real corner and at near 120 mph it has my complete attention and it takes all my will to keep my right foot from lifting.

Shifting or not is mostly a matter of my car. Sherm shifts 26 times in his old car at Okemo where I shift 4 times.