2014 Toyota Prius V - Let's Try This Again

Hi everyone.

Let me start by saying that I've been reading these forums daily since late 2015. R63 AMG and so on. I've struggled for a long time feeling like I didn't have much to contribute, and so have left my contributions mostly to issuing thumbs ups to the knowledge, humor, commitment, and time you all spend sharing with me. In particular, I want to shout out mazdeuce (who I know is on hiatus), irish44j, Mr. Nonack, a_florida_man, Stampie, Gumby, Robbie, Indy_Guy, John Welsh, Curtis73, and many more I'm forgetting - thanks for the great reading and the education that has in part inspired me on this project.

So, let's get to the project. My wife has a 2014 Toyota Prius V, which we purchased CPO in 2015 with only 9,000 miles on it. I did my research - or more importantly, I THOUGHT I did my research. Toyota Prius, there are tons of them out there, Toyota has a great brand reputation for quality, etc. I was a little scared by the hybrid system and all of the electronics in general and so we added on the extra warranty, did most of the servicing at the dealer, followed the manufacturer's recommendations for oil changes (DUM DUM DUMMMM) and so on.

So, about two weeks ago, we're at 112K miles and things have gone just fine. Absolutely no mechanical problems, and the car is in great shape, despite being chock full of various cereals, due to its primary role as a kid hauler. My wife says to me, "Hey, will you listen to my car sometime today? It's making a weird noise when I start it." Sure, OK, no problem.

Sad Prius V engine

Hm. That's not good. It does this on every cold start, smoothes out after a minute or so, and everything is fine. No CEL, no codes.

To The Internet, and what I learned wasn't good. As John Welsh has noted, the internal combustion engines in the 3rd generation of Prii are notorious for burning oil and blowing head gaskets. Depending on who you ask, this is as a result of having weak pistons and rings (which, as a result, were revised by Toyota for 2015); weak water pumps (which were revised for the 4th generation engine); major problems with the EGR system and intake manifolds clogging with carbon; and too-long factory-specified oil change intervals. 

So, I decided to take it to the dealer, and in addition to the sound (which was now a little worse) I had pending codes for misfires on three cylinders. The dealer stated head gasket failure, and told me that the engine was almost out of oil. That's my fault for not periodically checking it. But hearing the service writer say, "Oh yeah, you should have changed the oil every 5K miles" for the first time after eight years of dealer servicing (including a trip there within the last 5K miles) was frustrating.

Based on what I've read, head gasket replacement on these is generally a waste of time because of the pistons / rings / water pump situation. So, there was a family discussion about whether to a) buy a new car; or b) replace the engine.

First, I read up on people who are transplanting gen 4 Prius engines into gen 3 chassis. This is fairly straightforward, with just a few modifications needed. However, low-mileage gen 4 engines are now pretty thin on the ground, which leaves folks buying alleged 40-50K mile JDM engines from importers that seem to have mixed reviews.

The second approach (which, spoiler, is what I'm doing) is to buy a gen 3 engine that's been rebuilt with 2015 pistons and rings and otherwise gone through, strap a gen 4 water pump to it, clean the intake manifold and EGR system, and change the oil every 5K miles.

There is a shop that specializes in this in California called Hybrid Pit Stop; after a good discussion with their main engine guy, Greg, an order was placed for one of these refreshed engine which is now on a truck from California to my garage in the Kansas City area.

In the interim, engine removal has commenced and been generally successful. There is a legendary EGR cooler nut and stud which absolutely deserves its legend (more on this later) and I've half-broken one plug (no break in wire, hoping to glue back together). As I type this, the air box is off, the intake manifold is off, the exhaust manifold is disconnected, the fuel rail is off and the injectors are out and with RC Fuel Injection for cleaning, and the EGR system is off.

Key next steps include beginning a multi-day cleaning of the intake manifold (featuring a good amount of oil) and EGR pipe and cooler (which appear to be completely blocked with carbon) featuring Simple Green Pro HD; and extricating the engine. Oh, and putting a shiny one where the broken one was.

Questions will follow, and any and all input is appreciated. This forum is a big reason why I have the confidence to do this. Thank you!

1) berkeley dealers.

2) Good luck with the engine swap!  Since it's a direct swap, hopefully you don't run into any compatibility issues and the new engine just bolts right in.

In reply to Sunflowerbw :

Hey, thanks for the shout-out.  I'm just a regular guy like you, who turns a wrench on my own stuff for two reasons:

• I'm poor and can't afford to pay someone else to do car work for me
• I have a couple of brain cells and can follow a path that others had laid out before me

Hopefully your sharing this experience of an engine swap will lay a path for someone else to follow.

Welcome aboard.  I'll be following along as you progress.

I have a 2012 CT200h with the same engine and I've had this same problem too. I've pulled the intake and EGR system out for thorough cleaning 3 times now. I've got it down to just a couple hours start to finish. I did end up replacing the head gasket around 180k miles due to slowly disappearing coolant, and it honestly wasn't bad at all. I also added a catch can to try to keep less oil from going through the intake manifold. That certainly helped as it catches a fair amount of schmoo. I'm at 230k miles now and it is still running great and averaging 44 mpg, I just plan on annually cleaning the intake and EGR system. A 2015 swap will be on the table if the current engine ever fully E36 M3s the bed.

I'm looking forward to watching your swap to see what all is involved!

In reply to Sunflowerbw :

Really sorry to hear about the engine issues.  We're 16,000 miles into a 2022 Camry hybrid (bought as CPO with 7,400 miles on it), it came with 2 years of dealer maintenance, the owner's manual said 10,000 (!) miles for oil change intervals.  (I'm OK with 5,000 miles with mostly highway miles and synthetic oil, 10 K, no way.)  The dealer did a service before we picked up the car and they have us on a 5K interval, so much for the owner's manual.  I would have done them on myself between dealer changes if they had held to the 10K intervals. 

Good luck with the engine swap, you're in the right place to get solid advice from the hands on guys here on the board.  Also, off to check the oil on mine.  Just in case.

Definitely watching with interest!  Without a doubt you will accomplish this successfully!

I do have a quick question....  I have a gen 2 with 200k that is still running amazingly.  That being said, my wife would like something newer and nicer.  I've thought about the Lexus ct200h as a replacement - can you educate me on the different years and whIch ones are most reliable??

I think the head gasket issues stopped at 2015 but the other can chime in otherwise.  The 2nd gens are super reliable and the battery isn't that hard to mess with if you ever need to replace a cell.  

In reply to jfryjfry :

Thanks for the vote of confidence! My understanding is that the CT200H is engine-wise, a gen 3 Prius. Consistent with that, the Toyota TSB for oil consumption applies to the 2011-2014 CT200H. But, from 2015 onwards, you get the upgraded pistons and rings. I wouldn't buy an earlier one, and if I was buying a 2015+, I would immediately clean the EGR and intake manifold (and then repeat this every 75K), upgrade the water pump, and switch to 5K oil changes. There are lots of people on the Internet who say that with those things done and maintained, you will be in good shape. 

Wow, I was noted by name twice in your first post.  Honor.  

Also, I can't believe this is your first post.  It is incredibly insightful about Gen3 engines.  I knew the overview of them being notorious for HG and oil consumption but thanks sharing the more detailed response.   

My first interaction with Prius was a desire to find a used Prius V.  Boy, did i quickly learn that these cars hold their value.  Rightfully so I would think because they are an amazing combination of size, utility, economy.  For a long time they really had no competitor for limo-like rear seating and high mpg.  The Prius V has been knocked off its pedestal by the Rav4 Hybrid but once again, talk of a vehicle that has held its value and started at a much higher $40k+ value.  So, that does leave the PriusV as still highly desirable if you want to be at a lower price tier.  

With that said, upon initial reading of your plight, my first thought was to pay for a replacement engine.  The Prius V market value will still outweigh the expense of an engine install.  

jfryjfry said:

Definitely watching with interest!  Without a doubt you will accomplish this successfully!

I do have a quick question....  I have a gen 2 with 200k that is still running amazingly.  That being said, my wife would like something newer and nicer.  I've thought about the Lexus ct200h as a replacement - can you educate me on the different years and whIch ones are most reliable??

For a "classy Prius" I might overlook the CT200 for the same engine issues.  But, there are many other Toyota/Lexus Hybrids.  

A quirky one that I like is the Lexus HS250.  A sedan offered only for 3 model years ('10, '11, '12.)

A simplified summary would be that it is a Prius chassis in sedan form but instead of the 1.8L of the PRius is got the 2.4L of the Camry Hybrid.  Sort of the muscle car theory of small chassis with engine for the bigger chassis but still gets 35 mpg.  

Or, Camry Hybrid, Avalon Hybrid or Lexus ES Hybrid (all generally the same chassis)  From there you have some Toyota Lexus SUV hybrids but the boxy, tall shape hurts mpg even more.  

Something I forgot to mention, but is good for me to write here to make sure I remember: there is currently a 1/4 ratchet with an E8 Torx socket on it lost in the underbody somewhere. Also an EGR cooler-to-exhaust manifold gasket. Hopefully we can rescue those later!

Question for the group - as I start to think about reassembly, is anti-seize on every bolt (except the few that the FSM specifies need threadlocker) a good idea? I haven't seen it discussed in the FSM. And if so, do we have preferred or non-preferred brands? Thanks!

I like the wisdom that I learned here on GRM that the Mason Dixon line is where you stop using thread locker and start using Anti cease.  Ha

If you're not in an ultimately rusty climate (I'm generally in Metro Cleveland, OH) then I don't think anti cease.  If you'll be back soon, maybe like suspension then maybe anti cease.  

But if anti cease, in this thread you will find my brand recommendation. 

In reply to Sunflowerbw :

Good news update - the gasket has been recovered! Ratchet still on vacation.

Inconvenient update - I got a call from the good folks at RC Fuel Injection letting me know that the package I sent them, which originally contained four fuel injectors, arrived busted and containing only two. Fortunately, I added enough insurance to the shipment to pay for two new ones from Toyota, so I've filed my claim and will be heading to the parts counter tomorrow.

(Image courtesy RC Fuel Injection)

In other news, the EGR cooler and pipe are now soaking in a 1:3 solution of Simple Green Pro HD and water. I picked up a good tip from someone on YouTube for this, which is to plug all but one of the holes in each with appropriately-sized rubber stoppers and then fill them up, which really minimizes the amount of solvent required.

Tomorrow, we judge the initial results (and certainly begin round 2), gather some more parts, reinstall the rear seats (which were out to allow me to depressurize the fuel system) and hopefully fully prep the engine for removal. 

On cleaning the EGR cooler: I used welding wire to poke down through the passages in the cooler. It helps get the cleaning solutions through the whol thing in the case that its completely blocked. Also use compressed air to blow out all the crud. I repeated this process over and over until rinsing it with water came out clean. Its slow and annoying, but the cleaner you get it means the longer time before you have to do it again.

For the intake I used pipe cleaners and and round wire brushes (like from a gun cleaning kit) to get into all the ports. The EGR ports on my cylinder 1 and 2 were completely blocked the first time I cleaned it.

In reply to Spoolpigeon :

Thanks for the welding wire recommendation! I did this earlier today and it worked really well.

Update:

​​​​

After a few stops and starts, it's out! The most difficult part was figuring out how to rig the hoist to the engine. There are factory spots for bolt-in hangers (which I don't have) but the holes are not designed well for other hardware. So, captive engine mount bolt and a 60mm flanged M8 through an eye on the head with two nuts on it got the job done. Also special mention to the pool noodle that was sacrificed to protect the windshield. 

Next up is figuring out how to get the flywheel off without the special crank pulley holder. It seems like the key is an impact, which I don't really have, but also, that won't help me torque it correctly on the new engine. There has to be a pulley holder out there somewhere that fits this engine.

Free rental tools from the auto parts stores.

I find that Orielys has the best selection.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/store-services/rental-tools

In reply to John Welsh :

Thanks, yeah, I spoke with O'Reillys and for what it's worth, they didn't have confidence that their tools would work on a Toyota. After additional research, and expanding to include Corolla 1.8 in my search terms, I think I found something that may work, which Amazon dropped off earlier. More to come!

The new engine showed up today. Unfortunately, it looks like someone got a little aggressive with a hammer and punch trying to split it from a trans at some point:

I think I can flatten the mating side with a file and we should be OK. You can also see a vertical crack to the right of the dents, but that appears to be pretty shallow. Holler if you think I should be more concerned about this, though.

In reply to Sunflowerbw :

Thanks for the shout out and for the information.  Hopefully my mom's doesn't get to this point but nice to know.

I think I'd be concerned if that really is a crack.   

In reply to Sunflowerbw :

So, I did the thing I swore I wouldn't do and failed to close out this thread. Well, thanks in part to great advice from this forum, the swap was successful. I had a minor moment of panic when I snapped the head off one of the intake manifold bolts during reassembly, but I had just enough thread still sticking out to remove it with pliers (and have yet to replace it). I ended up filing down the dents near the trans mating surface, and the thing that looked crack-like has not been a problem to date. The only other bump in the road was that the one sensor that came on the reman engine that I didn't swap was faulty, but that was a quick fix because it was on top (and because I had a known working spare on the old engine). 

At this point I've changed oil at 500 and 5K per the engine builder's recommendation, and everything seems good. 

Oh, and the interior cleaning I did was overcome by my kids within ten days or so...

Thanks again for all of your help. From here it's 5K oil changes, and I think an EGR cleaning at 50K.

In reply to Sunflowerbw :

Congratulations on the successful completion of the engine swap. 👏 

Now that you're on this side of the repair, a couple of questions 

1. If you were to do it again, would you follow the same path?

2. What advice would you give to someone who's in a similar situation and needs a new or used engine, tips and tricks?

3. Did you keep your receipts?  How much are you into it $$_ ?