FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Glad you guys enjoyed it.  I only posted a fraction of the pics so if you hve a question about something ask, I probably have more detailed pics.

Javelin said:

If the ITB intake becomes a cross-ram I'm going to need a moment alone...

That ALMOST happened.  The simulator was asking for a running lenth of about 16" (the newer version says 10 is  better) so I tried to lay out a cross ram intake and them tried again with the stacks.....bother were basically failures because the cylinder to cylinder spacing is 94mm, the bore of the TBs is 54 and then add wall thickness and they are a lot bigger than the space available....but I tried anyway.  

The original TBs were going to be smaller, 38mm??

That was my first thought.  I was thinking I could oval the runner to slip past every other, but I wasn't sure how that would flow as I'd never tried before.  The oval was fine, the 38mm TB not so much, maxed at 130ish cfm iirc, so they were out and I just moved the ports and figured the stacks would sick out the deck lid.

Once the engine ws running I decided to try again on the stack side figuring my ne love of printing stacks would make about any shape possible.  It still didn't work really....but I tried.

edizzle89 said:

so did you sell your soul to the devil to gain these skills a long time ago or its was it a recent transaction?

I think it was a deal my parents made when I was to young.to remember.  When I was about 11 or 12 I found a lawn mower in the trash and got it running......wow it run!  now I can build a hovercrft!  how the heck one lead to the other I still have no ide but it turns out you can carve a working propellor from a 2x4.

mazdeuce - Seth said:

The number of times you "ruined" the heads and then went back in and added metal until they were fixed is inspiring. More of us should ruin more stuff. 

That's the thing right, its just metal and metal welds.  The problem is labor, if I had to pay for the labor this would be a 1/4 million  $ engine....but I don't so its not.

mke said:

edizzle89 said:

so did you sell your soul to the devil to gain these skills a long time ago or its was it a recent transaction?

I think it was a deal my parents made when I was to young.to remember.  When I was about 11 or 12 I found a lawn mower in the trash and got it running......wow it run!  now I can build a hovercrft!  how the heck one lead to the other I still have no ide but it turns out you can carve a working propellor from a 2x4.

That picture is priceless.

Throttle cable.  This little step is ofter one of the worst in any swapt I've ever done. and this was no expection.  I couldn't for the life of me figure out how  how to get the factory cable tube system that com'e out in the middle of the engine to get through and work the TBs in a useful way.  I had a design with shafts and bearings and...yuck!  Stuck or bindy feeling throttle pedal just begging to happen.

Remembering thi is a "bolt-in" engine swap (  ) so I didn't want to move the tube.......thats it, this will be my first electric throttle.

I got an actuator from an M3 m46 BMW off ebay

It has the same ball socket as the ductai stuff...sweet!

I wasn't really sure how much power it had as it was designed to move 6 TB not 12 so I made the throttle return springs as light s I dared.  I couldn't find anything off the shelf so I gave making them a try, it took some practice but I got better (bottom pic shows progression) and after 18 or 20 I had 12 that looked decent

Then mount the actorator

The 308 has pretty limited space in the center tunnel for a pedal position sensor but I found out tht a 96? 911 used a pedal assembly with a remote. and found one on ebay.

Then cut it apart

The ECU has 2 throttle drive outpus but they are like 3A continuous, 5A peak and I had a feeling.....yup, meter says the acuator is pulling more like a 10A peak.

I found a little external driver

https://www.pololu.com/product/2994

Programed the ECU to drive it (did i mention  I LOVE tis ECU?) and got the throttle to follow the pedal pretty well

On the throttle setup I created a table (throttle pedal translation) that lets me make the throttle as linear or progressive as I want, which is another big advantage of an electric throttle, no more remaking throttle cams to fix off idle pedal issues.  I added a bunch of other features too like idle control, stall saver, throttle rev limiter, traction control....most of that stuff is not tested yet though.

Accomplishments we’re aware of:

adolescent hovercraft builder

engineer

fabricator extraordinaire

machine shop pro

ecm software creator

motorcycle road racer

willingness to share 

I now want to read the complete OP’s biography..., or later we’ll learn he is also an autobiographer....  Which I’m okay with.

ToySnakePMC said:

Accomplishments we’re aware of:

adolescent hovercraft builder

engineer

fabricator extraordinaire

machine shop pro

ecm software creator

motorcycle road racer

willingness to share 

I now want to read the complete OP’s biography..., or later we’ll learn he is also an autobiographer....  Which I’m okay with.

 

No kidding, talk about lazy and under achieving!

This is a magnificent build. I want to see it run. PM me when you are going to a track, I will try to be there. Summit, Pocono, Watkins Glen, NJMP, Lime Rock, Pitt Race, are all near enough.

In reply to mbruneaux :

Guys, I found a pic of the OP.

The arcane knowledge of aluminum welding is what gets me here. In my limited experience, you can weld on aluminum. Once. If it breaks again, the reweld will never, ever hold up to the same stresses. But the aluminum I've worked with must not be the same alloy. So how do you know what you can cut up and weld on and weld again and get away with it? 

And yes I look forward to the announcement here that this car is gonna run somewhere. Thinkin this will be worth a road trip to see.

Will said:

In reply to mbruneaux :

Guys, I found a pic of the OP.

LOL

Jay_W said:

The arcane knowledge of aluminum welding is what gets me here. In my limited experience, you can weld on aluminum. Once. If it breaks again, the reweld will never, ever hold up to the same stresses. But the aluminum I've worked with must not be the same alloy. So how do you know what you can cut up and weld on and weld again and get away with it? 

I think welding something because it broke is very different from welding it because you don't like where it is or how it looks.

For sure the metal loses a lot of strength in the heat affected zone.  If the part broke it was clearly not strong enough before welding and will be worse after... and break faster.

The stuff I'm welding wasn't broken and was PLENTY strong, just not the way I want it.  For sure its possible that the welding will lead to failures, if it does I'll weld on a bigger piece of metal and try again :)

There's a foundry in Seattle that heat-treated some Alfa GTA cast aluminum parts for me.  I asked, and they would also do aluminum heads.  Morel Industries.  FYI.  Keep up the good work!

YOU scare me!!!

I'm going to go push everything I own into a pile in the middle of my property and burn it all.

then I'll park my clapped out Blazer near my neighbor's house to steal electricity for my space heater, and curl up in the back of the Blazer, and never go outside again, life is over now that I have witnessed a true god at work.

DC

I think I have seen your Cabrio somewhere else, if I remember, giant rear wing, turbo?

TurnerX19 said:

This is a magnificent build. I want to see it run. PM me when you are going to a track, I will try to be there. Summit, Pocono, Watkins Glen, NJMP, Lime Rock, Pitt Race, are all near enough.

Track time is something I'll need to think about....not that I haven't been thinking about it for for the whole build but the answer I always come to is no and that's not the answer I want.......

There are a few issues I struggle to get comfortable with.  First is safety.  If the engine delivers anywhere close to the hp the sim projects then this is an honest 190mph car at redline that won't need anything like the salt flats to get to redline.  That means it needs a proper cage, seat and harness to make a crash survivable and also needs some aero work to be stable.  Or it needs the driver to understand 130-140 and on the straights and brake plenty early......what fun is that?

Then there is the shake-down/development part.  Oil leaks are bad...I currently have some and would have to assume that I'll find/develop more as I push it.  I probably don't have adequate cooling in the engine bay for hard use. It probably needs an oil cooler.  It probably needs a bigger radiator and coolant pipes.  Years ago I moved lower shock mounts in about 1.625" by welding new years on the  wheel carriers then carving out the upper A-arm and welding in a new piece to try to replace what I cut off....I did it in a tent garage and its not my best work but it works....I'd want to fit up the a-arms at least before high speed driving....and the bushings all need to be replaced too,  All planned work but it needs to be done.  I need to play with shock and spring rates and probably wheel and tire sizes (I want to change the wheels to something a little more 308 looking anyway so this is a good excuse) with the new engine weight and position.  Basic development stuff.

Then there is wear part as someone eluded to near the start of the thread.  The castings are very custom but the wear items are mostly not that custom and ok ish there.  The big concern I have is life expectancy...a candle that burns twice as bright.....lasts 1% as long :(.  That H-D engine I built is pretty similar to this ferrari engine in a lot of ways.  The H-D would live a full season with no issue if I shifted at 7500, or a MAYBE 4 hours shifting at the 9200 redline.  The ferrari has the same piston speed at redline....I'm expecting the same life.

Every time I go through this in my head the answer is always that is probably isn't a great option as a track car and probably best to limit it autocross even if its not the same thrill :(

....but it means I probably need to build a proper track car :)

LifeIsStout said:

I think I have seen your Cabrio somewhere else, if I remember, giant rear wing, turbo?

 

No wings or turbos in this this car's past or future.

Nader said:

There's a foundry in Seattle that heat-treated some Alfa GTA cast aluminum parts for me.  I asked, and they would also do aluminum heads.  Morel Industries.  FYI.  Keep up the good work!

Thanks.  I went round and round on the heat treating.  It would be nice if the metal was hard again, but these aren't really castings anymore.  There is the base alloy, ferrari doesn't ever say what it is exactly, there is the 6061 I added....they will be closes enough to heat treat the same I think.  Then there is the 4043 welding rod holding it all together that is not heat treatable and I went through 15+ lbs of rod.  I'm not sure with all that welding rod in there it does much good to heat treat the rest.....maybe.....

In reply to mke :

If you want a track car when this is complete I have an X1/9 for even trade......!

In reply to TurnerX19 :

That's not a miata, are you even allowed to call it a track car?  :)

Here's my weekend

Wife  - Where are you going?"

me - To the Shop!  now that its usable I really want to pull the engine and get it fix!"

Wife - Oh, that project needs to last the rest of your life, I think you should work on the bathroom and save the car.

Me- I can't can't do the bathroom, I need a water heater to layout the plumbing before I can go any further

Wife- - I picked it up yesterday, its in the mudroom.  You're all set, go work on the bathroom.

Me - What?  Seriously.?.....yes dear......... suppose it will be nice not having to run in all the time once I install the beer fridge but it means the car sits another week, 2 it the tile magically shows up.

New water heater and a puddle, how fitting.   Hey, that's punny.