Parker with too many Projects said:On your highest shift it really sounds like it's just coming onto the cam. Can't wait to hear you really get on it!
Yes, peak torque should be right around 7000 rpm, peak hp around 9000.
Parker with too many Projects said:On your highest shift it really sounds like it's just coming onto the cam. Can't wait to hear you really get on it!
Yes, peak torque should be right around 7000 rpm, peak hp around 9000.
In reply to SkinnyG :
Your results are exactly what I'd heard was the norm....and I think I fixed that. Baro in my logs I just opened is 99-101 range.
Idle = 45kPa, 4.5-8% TPS depending on temp
cruising at 60 in 5th @ 2400rpm its 44kPa and 7% throttle (I said 2000-2100 in the video, the log says otherwise so the tach must be slightly off)
In the burnout video @4000rpm I see 93kPA and 80%TPS and I would expect WOT to bring it to near baro at 100kP
So the MAP goes 45-100, actually, throttle off I see 36-37kPa so like any common plenum engine. I think what I'm seeing in the logs is that there is so much power that idle and cruise are nearly the same throttle position and MAP reading and I just haven't really run into this before. Then add the biggish cams so VE decays fast below about 55kPa and all normal use is basically 42-55kPa or 4-20% TPS.
I think I will stay on the path I'm on for right now because it runs and drives nice but I will hold your words of wisdom in my mind should I run into something that starts causing me issues.
I do have valves in the exhaust to hopefully quite lower power.....like under 250-300hp, i need to hook them up. Its loud. I ran over the the gas station and picked up a neighbor(ish) who wanted a ride, "you said you were on your way and I heard something on 82 and thought it can't be him I'm hearing from way over there? Then it was on my road and them my driveway". I really should make it quieter.....he loved the ride though.
I'm back to having no faith in my O2 readings. I'm trying to use the ECUs internal controller....and 1 might be right but they don't match and I had trouble with channel 2 when I was setting it up so I kind of assume that is the wrong one....not sure though. I'm thinking its time to look at some plugs and to order at least 1 external controller, preferably 2 but budget.
Today I tried to get a log but the laptop shut down for whatever reason just after I pulled out of the development and before I put my foot into it to get some higher throttle/MAP data. Cold start and drive it was crisp and nice, but by the time I got home and things were pretty warm it just wasn't .... sure would be nice to have the log even if I don't trust the O2 numbers, at least I'd know what direction they moved. I thought I noticed this yesterday and today I'm certain.
I should get the USB log setup too. When the laptop is plugged it it logs anything I have a plot setup for because the PC memory is big, on a usb stick I'll need to be a bit more picky and but would be better than a laptop top the usually works fine.
And I need to sort what ever is going on with the column switches....right turn signal gets me horn, lifting up on the steering wheel gets me horn.
The oil leaks is an issue.....oil appears to be getting onto the axle maybe and is being thrown onto the rear header so it smokes and that is embarrassing. So I need to find and fix the leak.... or add a heat (aka oil) shield to keep it off the exhaust.
I did a kind of rough TB sync the other day and they are pretty good but the rear bank is different from the front and I can't reach that adjuster with the passenger side air duct in place. I need to pop that off and sort the sync. By 15-20% throttle the error is pretty much gone but I'd like it fixed.
Quite a punch list.
On the plus side it started nice cold again today. Then it start nice hot at the gas station twice because there was a line, only 2 pumps. I am so scared of heading out and then it not starting but it was fine. Leaving the gas station my neighbor called my attention to the the guys at the small shop across the street kind of looking in confused disbelief....the sounds it made starting made them look over but the sounds/acceleration leaving caused a bit of a jaw-drop and stare moment.
Where I am finding oil is confusing to me but I really suspect the oil feeds to both heads are leaking. That is a heads off repair so I will focus on remediation....because the engine isn't coming out and the heads are not coming off....I'm just not really clear about what the remediation looks like other than a wash every time it runs.
I am also learning wheel wells are important and I should have them because I'm finding the gravel they put on my road everywhere. Something to add to the list.
while cleaning the oil I noticed the front 2-1 collector doesn't fit all the great to one of the headers and is almost certainly leaking air, which could(would) make O2 sensor read leans. I'll try to seal it up with heat temp RTV and I did ordered 2 external WBO2 controllers
I've decided I'm almost certain the oil leak is the pressure feed to the front head which is bad(ish) news. My plan for today is to get as much access to the corner of the head where the feed pin is and silicone the bajesus out of it. Its pressure oil so I don't think this will work because its a pressure feed, but maybe. If it fails, the backup plan is silicone on a tube going to a catch can and silicone is about 100% effective at containing 0 pressure oil leaks, its just adding ugliness so backup plan.
The silicone will need a full day to dry so no driving today so after the silicone is on I'll get started on the rest of the punch list.
Actually found the oil leak and it way less than I was thinking....just a bad fitting that is hard to get to and impossible to see until the intake is off.
New fitting coming tomorrow but it will be Monday or Tuesday before its all back together and ready to drive again.
Glad you found it!
In reply to TurboFource :
Me too... not sure how to change it though. I installed it with the heads off....I need to make a special wrench I guess
$15 and 10 minutes with the grinder got me a tool to remove the hose
I got the coolant stuff back on and added a bottle of water wetter and 1 gal of green coolant and rust should now be in check and I have almost an extra 10F before boiling. Tomorrow I'll see what's up with the column switches while I wait for the oil fitting
That looks like a plumbing tool ;) perfect !
The sink wrench was a brilliant idea.
I should print that pic and pin it on the wall above my workbench to remind myself that it pays to look at a problem from all angles...
In reply to TurboFource :
yeah, I walked in to look for a socket to cut up and thought, I've seen a tool....
It turned out setting up the USB drive logging so I don't need the laptop was trivial...just add a line to the model that says logging on so now if the USB stick is plugged in it should be records. It worked in the shop anyway. Not sure what happens if the stick is full, probably stops I suppose.
Its pretty capable:
[quote]LOG_LoggingFrequency [Hz] - This is the user defined base logging frequency. This can range from 1-10000 depending on the number of channels being logged. The maximum bandwidth of a standard USB device is ~50,000 samples/second so the user should take some care to log at a reasonable rate. 20 channels at 1000Hz or 200 channels at 100Hz are generally considered reasonable depending on the device. [/quote]
I turned on about 15 channel at the default 20hz for now.
The cluster switches were also pretty straight forward to correct. One issue was I assembled it with the front bit that rotates with the steering wheel clocked wrong, that should fit the turn signals. And the headlight switch was missing a piece, don't know how I didn't see it before, but I made a new one from a nylon body clip thing and the lights work again....I wondered why it was so sloppy, now it click on/off nicely.
I noticed the slow down and brake lights that are supposed to be malfunction and shift respectively were always lit. There was a typo in 1 of the malfunction conditions so that should be fixed now. And the shift light stuff it looks like I planned to add it and wired the light but never added the function to the ecu so that is also fixed I believe.
During the 9k burnout you can hear the engine bouncing off the rev limiter, the only problem is I realized I have a soft limit set so there should be no bouncing on anything. In the log I posted you can see the throttle opening and closing, that is what caused the sound and should not have been happening. The best I can tell I tuned the throttle actuator on battery voltage, but running is higher voltage so it moves faster and my tuning values were too aggressive and allowed it be become unstable when I hit the throttle quick. I cut the tuning values by 20% which should fix it but I'll need to confirm when its running.
The BaT V12 308 was no sale at 73k, reserve was 175k if anyone's shopping.
Oil fitting replaced and cranking at 56psi it doesn't leak.
The intake manifolds are on and the fuel system leak checked.
The plugs are all black so its pig rich when its warm and I wasn't imagining it losing pedal response as it got warm. Hopefully the new WBO2 controllers give me more helpful readings. There is still a hint of oil on #6....maybe? but I suspect with the mixture fixed it will be fine.
Also there's oil on the plug bodies of 9&10....leaking cam cover I guess. I'll put some silicone on it until its apart again.
Tomorrow clean plugs in and get the TBs synced. Then re-assemble the air box and such.
I added a few more channels to the log list last night, 19 now? All still at 20hz but each channel can be at it's own rate is I so choose but for now all 20hz. I kind of wish I'd set this up before....no more forgot to start a log events.
I was playing with the throttle setup last night, battery charger connected and had no problem getting the actuator to oscillate after a fast throttle pedal move which is bad, so I worked on that a bit. Its kind of a tough game to keep it stable but also responsive and also settle at EXACTLY the set point so idle will be repeatable. Its a PID and I end up cranking up the I term way past where the basic "how to tune PID" formulas suggest......but it seems good now and ready for a real test tonight.
Tonight did not go exactly as planned
Its just water but I do not see from where exactly. Driver's side I think....maybe damaged a hose moving things out of the way? Clamp not right? I don't see it. Tomorrow I will fire it back up with the wheel off and try and get a good look.
I did sync the TBs but I was struggling with idle right from startup. Perhaps because synced it just idles better or maybe linkage isn't exactly as it should be after having it apart? I extended the link from the actuator to the TBs which should make sure the TBs can fully close. Tomorrow I'll see if its better.
Also I forgot to plug in the air temp sensor. It mounts to the duct now and I just forgot so it was pretty rich thinking the air temp was -20C...so about 14% extra fuel going in I guess.
I don't really see much oil, a couple drops that's good I guess.
Is there a way with your computer for it to substitute a value if a temperature sensor is disconnected?
This may be good or bad... obviously running really rich is fairly safe, but a value like 60F would still be fairly safe and allow you to move along without fouling plugs, assuming that you never go into closed loop.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
The short answer yes i can make it do whatever I like. The longer answer is I would need to do it. There is a function called analog conditioner that makes it dead simple, there is a clamps and a clamp override that does exactly what you are thinking
But I think that is the only function with that feature. The thermistor function like most others have a clamps but no override
So I would need to manually add an if/else channel and a variable range exceeded set point. Not hard but then it should also light the malfunction light and maybe limit throttle position like a limp home. Maybe add it to the to-do list.
Tonight on the way home from work I stopped at autozone and grabbed a loaner radiator pressure test kit...i had no idea that was a thing. You pay them for it as a deposit, use it , return it and t5hey refund the money so its free to use.
Quickly found a poorly positioned coupler hose leaking under the car and got it fixed. Then plugged in the air temp sensor and fired it up, had a look and it was dry. re-checked the sync, pulled some fuel out and it was running pretty good so I pulled it in ....and there was a small puddle, water.....and realized it was now leaking a lot. Lost about 1/2-1 gal on the shop floor. Looks like the real problem was the coolant manifold that lives under the intake leaks badly when its hot and under pressure.
I start pulling the intake but just don't like burning my fingers....tomorrow.
I got the shipping notice from 10point7 on the new WBO2 controllers but looking through logs while I ate breakfast I think a big part of my WBO2 sensor issues has been the sensors trying to tell me I had mechanical issues in the engine. Bank 2 has pretty much always read about 15% leaner than bank 1 but 2 years ago cylinder 12 was dead so that was the correct reading. A couple weeks ago plug 7 was white, it almost certainly wasn't running so again that was the correct reading best I can tell. Yesterday when I started I had this
0-5% error between the banks, but rich. The rich I think it realated to the stoic change I made from 14.7 to 14.13 for the E10 I'm using. I had tan not black plugs, and I'm pretty sure this is the cause. Also note the purple coolant Temp correction going from 30% to 15% and lambda staying nearly flat. I changed the coolant correction after last weeks drives to get mixed stable with temp and so that is pretty close to as good as it can be I think.
When I went to check the TB sync I saw the 10 for cylinder 10 had popped off its MAP sensor so that was getting WAY extra fuel
Near shutdown it looks like a cylinder in the front bank was dropping out at idle and back on with higher RPM
...hopefully later today I'll find #10 is fuel fouled and don't need to hunt for another cause.
Wednesday I got the coolant stuff back together.
Thurday day and all were pretty black but a couple looked like they they shouldn't fire, so cleaned again. #6 was oily ans I found and (I think) fixed another leak in the port. Intake back on. It was past I can start it time but still early so I decided to hook up the vacuum valves on the mufflers. The vacuum hose off cylinder 10 was a little shorter than the others which is why it popped off the MAP the other day, so I added a T and a short bit of hose to fix its length. Off the T another short bit of hose to a check valve, the back to a solenoid valve, then the actuators. .
Today I took 1/2 a day to run out to copart to un-suspend my account, my son made a deposit to place a bid but his name was not on it...BAD!!!!. Got home and added code to the ECU to open the exhaust valves at about 300hp and close them when it drops top about 280hp. I was all out low/high GPIO outputs but the 2 throttle controllers were available and I realized I could use them as 4 highside, yay! Fired it up and immediately noticed the difference in sound level....hard to hear on a phone video maybe but:
I let it get good and hot and not leaks. As it run it was clear the tuning was buggered by the mufflers so I worked on that a bit and the front bank lambda was I think reporting gibberish....I'm certain they were wall lit yet it was about 20% leaner than the rear bank, decided to ignore it. TB sync looked fine so I shut down and reinstalled the air box and off for a drive. The other mufflers are definitely a lot less hash, much more appropriate for general driving.
I bought my son along, I need to train him to be a better ride a long tuner. It was looking and acting pretty rich, mufflers and I'm thinking I may need to have quiet/loud VE tables. I set the gopro up horribly so the interesting stuff doesn't show, a pickup seemed to truly believed he could hang behind near the start and a vette thought he'd walk away near the end, both were mistaken, I need to check the log but I don't think the mufflers even opened. By the time we got back it was smoking again, oil tank maybe? Don't know but it wasn't too bad and burned off quickly once I stopped so I decided to let my son take a spin around the block. We practiced stalling at the stop sign a few times and he seems to have that down pretty well now then finish without incident other than it was clear I really need to fix the power steering.
Tomorrow see if I can find the oil leak.
Figured I'd start with removing oil
Then dry it off a little.....hmmm....this could explain why low power was wrong after I just tuned it....then had to pull the fuel regulator to install the air box and clearly got distracted. That log data is worthless.
mke said:That log data is worthless.
Well dang, guess you'll have to go for another drive 
In reply to sevenracer :
Yes, or several. I found the oil tank cap was not sealing, fixed that but still not the oil leak causing the headers to smoke so the hunt continues.
I did break down today 3 or 4 miles from home, a strong pull to about 6k then dead! Checked all the fuses....hmmm. I had the laptop logging so I looked and eventually noticed the TPS was 120% so the throttle actuator was working 100% to close the throttle. I have a second sensor and I reprogrammed the actuator to use the other and got the throttle working but it was still dead, injection time 0msec....RIGHT! I have a flood clear setting so it TPS is greater than 90% during cranking it kills fuel to clear a flood. I disabled that and got it running and home. yay!
The issue was the clip locking the connector to the sensor is not locking still not sure why because at about that moment a work/autocross buddy stopped by to see it so chatted a bit and out for a ride. The ride left him really confused. 1st how can this car pull harder than his V10 pickup at 2k and then keep pulling to past 6k where I rolled out and it was obviously just coming onto the cam?...he just kept looking over at the tach in confusion as we cruised in 4 or 5th and accelerated whenever we chose and then if I down shifted! 2nd was how can a naturally aspirated engine pull like that at any rpm? He finally commented he'd been in cars this fast and certainly in cars that cruise as nice but just couldn't understand how 1 car could do both with near instant throttle response. I've said its hard to put this experience into words.....and its not just me.
Oh, something a little odd with the brakes, the front right is first to lock....it happened twice, just the front right. so pads not bedded? alignment weird? road pitch? Butt dyno said pretty high g force....I need to look into it.
Tomorrow I'll load the tune I just made based on the last logs. I had pulled out a LOT of fuel and now have it lean (if the O2 sensors are to be trusted) so slowly adding fuel back in and it is feeling better and better so everything seems to be going in the right direction.
mke said:In reply to sevenracer :
The ride left him really confused. 1st how can this car pull harder than his V10 pickup at 2k and then keep pulling to past 6k where I rolled out and it was obviously just coming onto the cam?
...it has 2/3rds the displacement but 1/3rd the weight?
2nd was how can a naturally aspirated engine pull like that at any rpm? He finally commented he'd been in cars this fast and certainly in cars that cruise as nice but just couldn't understand how 1 car could do both with near instant throttle response.
Independent throttles. It's the only way to fly 
To be honest your descriptions sound like my bridge ported rotary, which is also on independent throttles, and has a rotating assembly that has about the mass and polar moment of a bowling ball. It responds instantly to accelerator requests, makes torque everywhere, and then it goes ballistic at higher RPM. Except you have a lot more compression and displacement so you get to enjoy way loads more of all of it.
Your tuning oops reminds me of the time I was in the middle of a road tune and, for whatever reason, cycled the key while rolling down the road in gear. My computer runs speed-density and takes a barometric reading when first powered up... from the MAP sensor. There are limits to how far it will go, but I ended up tuning the car with an assumed baro reading of 80kpa. Oops.
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