FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

To me the fact that a ferrari has a "Slow Down" dash light is about the funniest thing I can think of

The ECU now has control of that light...I've not completely decided how the ECU will use that power but it has it.  its a frikin bright light so I my do something light a dim (maybe with slow blink) is traction control active and bright flashing is low oil pressure and such.

I was also looking a bit at steering angle options and thinking maybe something like this from pegasus would fit up under the dash , mostly right now I want to know where the wire so I can button up the dash at some point

Steering angle sensor

Went to hook up a couple more wires tonight....hmmm....no pins left, at least not the pins I was looking for.  

The plan now is I should be able to drive any relay with a HighSide pin, they are 12V, 2A I think, just need to rewire the relays.  That will free up to 3...these are just on/off, the LowSide outputs are pwm so more valuable and what I need for the water temp gauge I was trying to connect.

I think the 2 internal throttle controllers are also available....4 pins 0/12+ and all 4 can be driven separately I think.  I can't use them because they are 5A and my throttle pulls 15 so I needed an external controller and driving it ate 2 or my LS pin, but I think I can use these for a lot of things..... probably....

I'll add this thought, nobody plans to fail, they simply fail to plan.....yeah.....no idea where I planned to connect all those wires....

mke said:

To me the fact that a ferrari has a "Slow Down" dash light is about the funniest thing I can think of

...

The ECU now has control of that light...I've not completely decided how the ECU will use that power but it has it.  its a frikin bright light so I my do something light a dim (maybe with slow blink) is traction control active and bright flashing is low oil pressure and such.

...

I was also looking a bit at steering angle options and thinking maybe something like this from pegasus would fit up under the dash , mostly right now I want to know where the wire so I can button up the dash at some point

Valentine One / other radar/laser detector warning?

In reply to Greg Smith (Forum Supporter) :

I  settled, at least for now, on malfunction indicator.

I have a LOT of wires at this point.....

32 AN in - 20 AN in +12 CAN AN in, 2 available

22 LS (12 for injectors, 10 other), 0 available

5 Temp In (but 2 I'm just using as 5V pullup for my external throttle driver father than put resistors in the wire harness), 1 available

6 coil (there are 6 after a board rewire to activate 2 of them left from older board rev, but FW only supports 10 total currently....begging for them to fix that)

6 digital in, 2 available ( 2 are unconnected but slated for brake and clutch pedal...needed if I want to try launch control)

1 VR in pair, 3 available

1HS, 2 available

So I have 0 LS,  1 HS and the DBW outputs left.  The DBW I messed with tonight and couldn't quite get them doing what I want but I have a couple more ideas to try....hoping to get 2 usable outputs there.  If I believe the 2 additional coils in FW are never coming I could take the 4 unused coil outs bur they are very low power HS on/off outputs so not very useful.

Tonight I connected the water temp gauge to the ECU and almost the low oil pressure light....but I ran out of heat shrink tubing to cover the splice (I had to cut the wire back as the OEM insulation was swelled and no longer fits in the ECU connector).  I added some code to make the "slow down" light basically a check engine light that currently comes on with low oil pres, low fuel pre, high water temp....I'll add misfire and such later.

1 of the unused HS outs is for exhaust valves.  I have 4 mufflers, 2 quiet (ish) and 2 loud.  There are valves on the loud muffler and I have a solenoid valve that will open /close them.  The quieter muffler should be good for 250-300hp which will handle all normal driving, then above that the gates of H_ll will open.  Right now they are safety wired open, but I need to hook them up properly. 

Finally some real content  Sorry, still complaining about the  "fake" Lamborghini thread previously...

Great to see this moving along, love this car!

No complaints here, would love to see this become a 288 GTO!

https://m.ebay.com/itm/288-GTO-Body-Kit-for-Ferrari-288-308-and-328-Models-/173757196223

I do have a GTO bumper and valance, but I personally don't care for the rally lights and made a more 308 looking grill.   Beyond that I'll likely leave it 308. I invested an awful lot of time keeping the engine transverse and wheel base short (aka autocross perfect) that the idea of stretching the body is not appealing.

I do kind of know the the guy Shawn from fischer motorsports....I bought a motec M150 from him that I ended up replacing with the enginelab once I realized how much it was going to cost to actually make the motec run...the $3800 I paid back then only bought a dead box, a basic software enable was another $800, $1200 for the decent package, $2500 to be able to edit to do some of the things I've done, then logging ain't included with that, $400 for MS level logging, $1200 (or $1500? don't recall) for proper logging.  And the list just went on......but EL does all that and I loaded it into an AEM infinity 7 I got on ebay for $1000....as in total....with everything I could ever want.....yeah I resold the motec and reinvested the money elsewhere in the project.

But why I called Shawn to begin with is about the time I was getting the engine far enough along to think it might run I saw an add on ebay for a 308 based GTO copy, but what caught my eye was it had a TR head V12....wait, I have the only one of those!....NOPE! Shawn CNC milled a brand new block that used the TR heads, crank and I think timing belt setup and then stuffed it into a GTO clone.  The customer had lost interested and was selling, but I think Shawn ended up buy it to finish...not sure.  He's down in TX and I thought I understood there was some connection to Bob Norwood of some kind, kind these are Bob's molds maybe and possibly block design...but I very well may have that wrong.  Some cool stuff comes out of Fischer Motorsport though is my point.

Love all the detail, it is a labor of love. Nice photos.

mke said:

Shawn CNC milled a brand new block that used the TR heads, crank and I think timing belt setup

Sounds like he took the easy way out! 

Syscrush said:

mke said:

Shawn CNC milled a brand new block that used the TR heads, crank and I think timing belt setup

Sounds like he took the easy way out! 

Yes.....my way it authentic ferrari d.....it!

And period correct!  

Funny we just talked about GTOs as way back I used to joke that since the parts are period correct and I spent a good deal of time making my work look original the I'd just tell people, "I don't know, I guess it had the V12 option?  Or maybe it was a another concept before they settled on the turbo for the GTO?  Don't know..."

But I do know I keep finding I don't have the bits I need to finish stuff.  

-oil pressure warning light is waiting on heat shrink

-front wheel speed sensors waiting on 1/8" wire cover, heat shrink and I just discovered 1k resistors (sensor needs an external resistor and I now remember using my last when I switched the crank/cam position from VR to hall, the same hall I'm using for wheels so I used my resistors....I'll have 100 and the other bits tomorrow says amazon

-brake and clutch switches....I need a clutch switch.  I think I found something that will work, but a week to come.

Hopefully this weekend most of the little annoying  wiring will be done.  I've made some adjustments to the ECU code and the water temp gauge now driven by the ecu, the oil light will be once I can heat shrink it and plug it in, the "slow down" light is check engine and light for low oil pres, low fuel pres, high water temp....I'll add more later like misfire, TBs out of sync and such.

I've decided its good the DBW outputs didn't work the way I wanted...that means I still have them for when I build variable rpm tuned air box, kind of like the porsche varioram that changes tuning with rpm.  I think the DBW output will be perfect for that.

Tried to wire up the brake pedal switch....weird, no power ....oh...looks like I never completely finished the fuse box upgrade to the point of there being fuses..one more thing. They will be here Sunday.

The fuse box pic reminded me that is where the whole stupid project stared and why the car rolled into the shop in the first place...yup, the whole V12 epic began with with wiring.  I'm not sure if birdman had yet release his plug&play 308 fuse box upgrade but I was having constant power issues as well as ECU problems on the supercharged setup.  The fuses were corroding as many have an issue with and the ECU  I got a great deal on because they had been recalled over a crank sensor option I didn't need not working right...1/2 price knowing for sure that would never work.  It turned out that as the ECU got warm in the trunk  the working crank trigger didn't work right either and timing would jump advanced enough so it would detonate at idle.

I bought a motec M800 and decided to mount it in the the cabin....that is the M800 bracket I made that the fuses are bolted too.  it was going to slip up under the dash and I decided to just replace the fuse box with modern stuff along with adding extras for the ECU....then the stock relay panel was right there and it would be a super net install.  

I don't recall exactly when it all went off the rails......but the project is ending where it began with me cleaning up the fuse box.  Honestly it looks like its mostly done and ready for fuses.  I'm also remembering the fuse numbers match original and I did leave so tape with numbers so I know how I numbered it....when the fuses come tomorrow I should be able to just plug them in....and see what systems don't work after sitting all these years.

Edit: this post reminded me I'm on my 5th ECU.  Haltech E6k, Haltech E11v1, Motec M800, Motec M150, Enginelab EL129 (AEM infinity7), 6 if I count the o5e open source project that was about concurrent with the M150 time

After reading all of that, I think you should have just gone with carbs.

In reply to Nader :

Yeah...but I remember reading a roadtest/shoot out between a boxer and countach (that keeps pooping up), bother carb'd, both wouldn't run right...the lambo guys(iirc)  retuned it at the track....still short of expectation.  There is no easy answer.

It is slow going......

Today I ran the steering angle, brake and clutch wires through the dash then got power to the brake switch so I could figure out which wire was which and connected the ECU lead.  Also jumped of the hot for the clutch switch when it arrives.  Brake and clutch are wired to the ECU, held on steering until I have a sensor.   Heat shrink and wire wrap came this morning and resistors this evening so I was able to get the front wheel sensors installed.  I wired the signal to the ECU but still need to do the power and ground in the trunk but the sensors worked out nice....they are universal, so 5, 12, 15, 24V which meads external power resistor and I prefer to keep that with the sensor than at the ECU end so should I change sensors I'm not rewiring the car.

I think this means I can put the cabin back together tomorrow....that would be nice after so many years.

Semi-related as it involves wires.  When I switched to the F430 calipers and rotors I also eliminated the power brakes expecting ITBs and big cams would make them worthless anyway.  as I was pulling the wheel speed sensor wire I noticed the brake fluid level wire just laying there looking lonely which got me wondering if there is a fluid level sensor that will work with the compact master cylinders I have?  A quick google search didn't find anything so the question goes to the community, anyone ever seen a level sensor for a setup like this?

In reply to mke :

Jaguars in the 1960s used a level sensor that replaces those caps. I believe it was a Smiths product, so worse than Lucas, but they did seem to work.It is just a float switch. #C23631, currently on back order. It is tall.

In reply to TurnerX19 :

That's kind of cool.  Best pic I could find so all an see your most excellent suggestion

....and raised another question in my mind.  The current caps seal the reservoir and use a rubber bellows thing I'm used to seeing on brakes....but newer plastic reservoirs with sensors, like the one stock on the 308 from '84 so not all that "newer" are not sealed...I guess the fluid has changed and no longer requires the air be kept out????  Never really thought about it before just now.

The bigger concern that popped into my mind is just how small these reservoir are and adding a float switch would take....1/3 looking at the pic?  I liked these little masters because they at look like the ones used on the 308 rally cars, those were AP and more pricey but at a glance its period race race.  I think they only hold about 2 full pedal pumps making brake fluid level checks pretty important I suppose.

speaking of which I opened the masters to try to figure out what size they were inside....this one looked like E36 M3.  I drained it, cleaned off the corrosion and refilled but man, the car has only been out of the garage to move it from 1 bay to another...don't really understand this.  The other  2 looked find...I don't know.

Back on wires I went to put up the fuse box...hmmmm...wonder where I put the screws?  After about 30-40 minutes of searching around the shop  I dug them out of this box.....I hate when that happens but that's what happens when a project goes 13+ years I guess.

Look at the bright side, think of all the stuff you rediscovered while looking for the screws!

And you DID find them.....

New brake fluid is still hygroscopic, they just don't care anymore, because you should change it every 2 years max on a street car. The Jag switch pic you posted does not show the vertical extension piece that is required to fit it to your masters. The junction of the extension and the cylinder I have found to be leak prone after the fluid gets nasty,

Most of my cars I've never changed the brake fluid......

Here's a sight I have not seen in many years...a mostly assembled 308 interior.

There was a bit of soot from the fire....here's the water after cleaning 1, just 1 seat bottom, not the whole seat, just the bottom.

Then for those that don't know, Ferrari carpet is wool, real wool and apparently also really delicious,  Ironically the most damaged carper pieces are the ones I removed from the car so I wouldn't damage them while working.

In reply to mke :

I HATE Mice !

In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :

Moths I believe.. 

The open areas are mostly fine but the bits I packed away in the dark and behind the targa top that sits behind the seats are chewed.  I wanted to change it anyway.  When I 1st got the car the interior was trash from the Louisiana sun and when I replaced most of it I also added dynamat and their foam trying to reduce noise and improve the AC.....all it did was add weight and make the carpet and a of interior bits not right right.....but spiffing up the interior is behind a running engine, suspension rebuild  and probably paint....so the moth holes stay 

In reply to mke :

Yes, Moths.  That makes more sense.  But I still Hate Mice.