GM Ecotec 4 bangers…Learn me please!

Latest bad idea...

Swap a RWD GM Ecotec 2.5L into an E30 roller I have... The idea is a fun street/ track day car with a light alum block 4 banger. And 2.5L would make me imagine I'm building a cheap M3...

Engine wise, there seem to be a decent amount of rwd Caddy ATS/CTS in the pickNPulls with either 2.0L turbos or 2.5L NAs.

I know the 2.5Ls came in Colorados and Malibus too. I obviously want a manual... so what's the best donor? Colorado with a manual? 
Will the 2.0L turbo stuff swap over to the 2.5L? 
Is there another manual application with a better ratio or shifter placement that I should look for? 
Is adapting a GM manual (not GM obviously so Borg Warner or Aisen?) manual to an E30 driveshaft going to be a pain?

And most importantly, has anyone done this swap before??? Help please?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions.

Jim

Idk about the 2.5, maybe you meant 2.4? Like whats in the solstice? Unless there are more modern 2.5 ecotec motors. Idk. If so, yes, the turbo stuff will swap over. Heck, 90% of the turbo kit rpm motorsports offers for the 2.4 is just off a turbo solstice. The solstice came with an ar5 5 speed manual. Probably easy to find one and yank the whole drivetrain out. 

Are Soltice and Sky parts ever in a junkyard though? I've never seen either in Central Texas. 
The 2.5L is a DI motor... introduced around 2014 I think. For a while in the Caddy ATS it was a 2.5L base (200hp) and 2.0L turbo up level (275? Hp)?

The latest version of the 2.5T makes about 325hp but is probably too new to find at reasonable prices. As far as I know the Solstice and Colorado used the same 5spd trans.

So there's a 2.5L turbo? I know there's a 2.7L turbo they put in the Colorado and Silverado but I didn't think it was in the Ecotec Family.

I know from my previous S10 & Camaro Borg Warner T5 experience, that the same trans family can have drastically different shifter positions, depending on the tail shaft housing you use. Are the new Solstice/Colorado 5 speeds the same way?

I'm running a turbocharged 2.4 LE5 Ecotec with VVT in my Bugeye Sprite. Engine came out of a 06/07 Chevy Cobalt, but the turbo stuff is a hodgepodge of 2.2L stuff and custom made elements. Stock ECU with a flash. I'm only running 5psi of boost currently due to stock injectors being maxed out at redline. Dyno/tuned it recently in this configuration, where it made 205rhwp (estimated 240 crank) at 6500rpm. We did put a 10psi spring in the wastegate as a test, but had to shut it down at 5000rpm due to the injectors saturating. Extrapolating that graph would indicate I'll make around 240rwhp (280 crank) if/when I buy/install bigger injectors. 

Transmission is an Aisin AR5 with a modified shifter to work in the tiny Sprite cockpit. Great, great gear box; crisp and very positive. Main issue I have is my 4.11 LSD Torsen NB Miata rear, which is far too short with the small diameter tires. 

I'm really pleased with the Ecotec, especially after getting a proper tune. Very crisp throttle, revs like crazy, and the horsepower/torque in the 1850lb Sprite is pretty awesome. Only real serious weakness that I know of with the Ecotec is timing chain issues. I made sure I replaced mine and installed new tensioners, etc before firing it up. 

For those who car, here's more on the car: https://ecotecfrog.blogspot.com/2025/01/dyno-tune.html 

I think the timing chain problems were on the 2.4's with low tension rings. They would burn oil, run low, and the chains and tensioners  would wear from lack of lubrication. 

Thanks Badbug. Can I ask where you sourced the engines and trans? As mentioned before, the 2.5L DI naturally aspirated and 2.0L turbo DI motors can be found in the pickNPulls... cheap! But I don't think I've ever seen a Soltice in the yards... Guess it's time to dive into FB marketplace... I'm hoping that non turbo DI and turbo DI motors can swap parts...but hope is not a plan! 😎

Thx again!

Jim

I have the 2.0 LHU out of a 2013 Buick Regal Turbo and with ported head and a ZZP turbo, it makes over 400 hp to the wheels using the stock ecm programmed with HPTuners. I have a QuickTime bellhousing that I use to run a Richmond Gear 4 speed. The engine is direct injected and flexifuel from the factory so it has extra large injectors. I've been very pleased with how robust the engine is, it takes a lot of abuse and just keeps going. There is a driver demand torque table in the tune that can be used to tune how hard the power hits and where so it's almost like traction control if you get it right. You can make the engine scary to drive or a Bob Costascat. Bad News Racing is your guy to unlock the ECM and ZZP has everything you need to make serious power. BTW, when the engine was all stock and running 91 octane fuel, it made 375 hp to the wheels. I have many videos of my engine and racecar, including all the mods and how I got it running, etc on my YouTube channel Racecar Playlist

In reply to F1jim64 :

The engine was one that a builder I know had. It was previously run in a Model A (yes, a Model A), but was detuned to keep the 80+yo owner from killing himself. After he passed away, the engine and transmission were sitting unused, so I bought it and we installed it in the Bugeye. 

That said, these engines are very plentiful in the junkyards. Chevy made literally millions of these engines, putting them in a whole myriad of vehicles. Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, Ebay Motors are all good bets, too....

There is a good list of donor cars here. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Ecotec_engine

I am building an Ecotec Miata, will be using a 2.4 LE5 using a kit from Ecotec Miata.  It seems the parts mix and match between engines.  Exhaust/turbos from the 2.0 fit the 2.4 from what I understand.  I am going NA with stock flashed computer.  Several companies make standalone harnesses and aftermarket parts.

Thx for the info guys. I have an HP tuners cable and I've absolutely hacked a tune for an LS1 into an FD RX7, so I guess I can handle the ECU part....maybe...

That said, I'm wondering how much hackery has been done to the "newer" DI versions of the Ecotec (2.0T and 2.5L NA). Most YouTube stuff is about the older PFI versions (2.0/2.2/2.4). I say newer but the DI stuff has been around since 2013 or so.  I'm hopeful stuff that old is cheap in the yard, and that hp tuners has support for those ecus. I know the newest GM boxes are locked and you have to mail them into hpt so they can unlock them...for significant additional cost...

If anybody has a DI swap running, don't be shy about posting it. Thx!

If you are on Facebook here is a group that is pretty helpful:

Out of curiosity,

How do these engines take to prolonged high rpm usage? They maybe on the list if the drift car is ever in need of a replacement engine (easier to get at a junkyard vs a BMW engine) and 200whp and easy (subjectively speaking) to get parts is attractive... 

In reply to DjGreggieP :

Define high RPM

In reply to Peabody :

Typically at / near redline. I wouldn't be trying for *more* rpm than what ever it's redline is. So if it its redline is say 7500, it's probably going to spend 90% of it track life at 6000 -7500rpm. Essentially a prolonged second / third gear burnout while also moving at some speed, but mostly (hopefully) sideways.

BadBug said:

In reply to F1jim64 :

That said, these engines are very plentiful in the junkyards. Chevy made literally millions of these engines, putting them in a whole myriad of vehicles. Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, Ebay Motors are all good bets, too....

They are extremely plentiful and fit in a wide array of cars that are used competitively. You can turbo and tune them easily but I would suggest aftermarket ECU over the stock one which can be hard to get it to do everything you want. 

The 2.5 is a weird beast, very much biased to fuel efficiency over power.  It doesn't share much, if anything, with the 2.0-2.2-2.4 engines, which were more like quiet aluminum Quad 4s.

Pretty sure all turbos are direct injected, even the old ones.

DjGreggieP said:

In reply to Peabody :

Typically at / near redline. I wouldn't be trying for *more* rpm than what ever it's redline is. So if it its redline is say 7500, it's probably going to spend 90% of it track life at 6000 -7500rpm. Essentially a prolonged second / third gear burnout while also moving at some speed, but mostly (hopefully) sideways.

Yes that's not a problem. My buddy still endurance races his 2.4 - the original Ecotec Miata, absolutely abuses it, and all he does is replace the valve springs every 50 hours or so.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

The 2.5 is a weird beast, very much biased to fuel efficiency over power.  It doesn't share much, if anything, with the 2.0-2.2-2.4 engines, which were more like quiet aluminum Quad 4s.

I would bet that the 2.5 shares more with the 2.0-2.4 Ecos than they did with the Quad4, which shared nothing at all. They're all really an evolution of the previous design. And stock, the NA 2.5 output is practically identical to the previous eco's, while the turbocharged one is significantly higher

In reply to Peabody :

The 2.5 flipped the intake and exhaust, has a belt driven water pump, and while I haven't taken a tape measure to it, the engine looks a lot taller and wider.

No doubt that the Ecotec and Quad 4 share no actual parts, but they had the same design philosophy with port locations, the goofy internally driven water pump that was externally mounted, the power steering pump directly driven off of the back of a camshaft, etc.   Very much an evolution of the idea, whereas the 2.5 is a lot different in every way.

I don't think anyone will be able to adequately explain why they ran the intake valve shutoff system the way they did, with the unitized double solenoid.  I could understand if it were paired to 1 and 4, 2 and 3, but it appears to be 1 and 2, 3 and 4.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

If I recall the blocks are the same-ish. The 2.5 being beefier, but essentially the same design 

rb92673 said:

There is a good list of donor cars here. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Ecotec_engine

I am building an Ecotec Miata, will be using a 2.4 LE5 using a kit from Ecotec Miata.  It seems the parts mix and match between engines.  Exhaust/turbos from the 2.0 fit the 2.4 from what I understand.  I am going NA with stock flashed computer.  Several companies make standalone harnesses and aftermarket parts.

 

 

Man, that list has a few great cars and a whole lot of completely mediocre-garbage cars.

bbbbRASS said:

rb92673 said:

There is a good list of donor cars here. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Ecotec_engine

I am building an Ecotec Miata, will be using a 2.4 LE5 using a kit from Ecotec Miata.  It seems the parts mix and match between engines.  Exhaust/turbos from the 2.0 fit the 2.4 from what I understand.  I am going NA with stock flashed computer.  Several companies make standalone harnesses and aftermarket parts.

 

 

Man, that list has a few great cars and a whole lot of completely mediocre-garbage cars.

Garbage cars are easier to find in the junkyard.  I never see a Solstice or Sky at the pick and pull, but there are hundreds of HHR, G6, Malibu, Ion, Aura, etc. No real difference between them.

Not sure if it helps too much but a Jeep AX15 and a Toyota R154 are the same transmission as the AR5.