IT'S TIME!! The GRM Free Europa 2020 Challenge Build!!

Woody said:

Sand rail chassis + Subaru power + Dzus fasteners + removable Europa body = SVreX

 

 

I really like it, but I have never seen a sandrail chassis that would come close to fitting under a Europa.

In reply to SVreX :

Then I would look at adapting the Toyota engine subframe to the back of the Lotus chassis and go from there.

SVreX said:

In reply to CrustyRedXpress :

There is no way I can buy all of the Europa pieces and remain in Challenge budget. 

There is a budget-friendly option that would work though. Find a running/driving Renault Fuego or GTA - they're out there & they're cheap. People swap those engines into Europas as they have a north-south orientation. Just take it a step further & swap the whole front subframe/cradle into the rear of the Europa.  

The 2GR with an MKII MR2 or Camary transmission and axles will bolt in and give you a factory proven suspension geometry. The fwd Avalon mounted in the rear of a Europa chassis will be a crap shoot, springs and shocks too soft, roll center, lots of unknowns. Lots of work, too wide, etc. even if you had a shop, great welding skills, would be hard to know how it will work. Why do you want to keep the Avalon  subframe, other than it is a complete assembly, it is not a performance setup. The AW11 is proven and your engine choice fits, you may be able to keep the auto trans and just find out what axles fit. 

In reply to JThw8:

At least you're not in Cary (Containment Area for Relocated Yankee)

When driving in the Tri-City's, ya know how to tell if the car in front of you is being driven by a yankee?... wait for it... it has NC plates... Yuc-yuc!

Back on topic...

SVreX: I've got a friend S. of Raleigh that is a phenomenal welder/fabricator. He's never done any car racing, but he could help brace that MR2 chassis... and I hope ya stay with that plan. Save a tube frame car for another build. Long way to go for some welding, but with JTHw8's help...

Keep 'er going. Love it!

In reply to dherr :

THAT makes a lot of sense. The proven geometry is why I moved toward the MR2 in the first place. 

In reply to SVreX :

Keep the MR2 chassis.  

Continue to cut until the body fits properly. (Did you see how much I had to cut the TR4 to get the LS to fit?)

Brace as needed after surgery.

It's called the Challenge for a reason.

SVreX said:

Woody said:

Sand rail chassis + Subaru power + Dzus fasteners + removable Europa body = SVreX

 

 

I really like it, but I have never seen a sandrail chassis that would come close to fitting under a Europa.

That’s the part where you learn how to use your new MIG welder. 

SVreX said:

In reply to wheelsmithy :

Keep it up!  Love the input!!

Okay.

A while back, there was a kit called the Superlite 7 or some such thing. The chassis was a monoque, but it followed typical Lotus 7/ Locost layout pretty closely. Thing was, it was all sheet aluminum, not unlike the Europas (yes, the Europa is steel. In your case, I'd say that's better anyway($$$).

Anyway, If memory serves, the Elite, Elan, and Europa chassis could all be made with a 4' brake( Am I dreaming to think a 3' ? -Probably.) So, you fold up, rivet, and glue your own chassis. Still tremendously difficult to do with NO WELDING, but maybe you can attach sub assembly from your donors.

EDIT: the Elite was the fiberglass chassis, I believe.

Add me to the list that hopes you will ditch the Avalon suspension. In My Opinion, it is simply too big.

In reply to wheelsmithy :

I like the rabbit you are chasing. The idea of doing it with NO welding is fascinating. 

You may have misunderstood what I said. I said I was looking for alternative budget friendly approaches. Your idea of a sheet metal fabricated chassis is the wildest idea, but there are others. 

1- Make friends with a welder. 

2- Find a template and copy it.  This is the idea I was thinking- work off an existing design, do all my own cutting and fitting, tack it together with my wire feed, then take it to a welder to do the final welds (and include some welding time in the budget)

3- I’m sure there are other approaches...

SVreX said:

In reply to wheelsmithy :

I like the rabbit you are chasing. The idea of doing it with NO welding is fascinating. 

You may have misunderstood what I said. I said I was looking for alternative budget friendly approaches. Your idea of a sheet metal fabricated chassis is the wildest idea, but there are others. 

1- Make friends with a welder. 

2- Find a template and copy it.  This is the idea I was thinking- work off an existing design, do all my own cutting and fitting, tack it together with my wire feed, then take it to a welder to do the final welds (and include some welding time in the budget)

3- I’m sure there are other approaches...

 

I wonder if the dude who made a 2GR subframe for his car made drawings/sketches/3d model.

What about swapping in an electric drivetrain from a leaf? 

SVreX said:

In reply to wheelsmithy :

You may have misunderstood what I said. 

Remove "may have", and that's accurate

Still, some of the ideas I mentioned are even closer to plausible with welding back in the equation. so, the V6 will fit in the MR2, yes? Keep the auto, and the Avalon's stripped down harness. Level and brace the MR2 chassis in prep for cutting, and get on it. Daylight's burning.

PS, I'm a certified weldor, and not TOO far away, in East TN, if you can get everything tacked in place, maybe something can be worked out.

Im going to regret this:

Ill bring my welder and minimal talent for a day! 

I still think you need to finish cutting the mr2 and making the body fit. We make it strong again afterwards. 

Dusterbd13-michael said:

Im going to regret this:

 

Ill bring my welder and minimal talent for a day! 

I still think you need to finish cutting the mr2 and making the body fit. We make it strong again afterwards. 

I'll join in. I think Michael will work for Mt. Dew but I prefer Dr. Pepper. 

This is why I love GRM.

SVreX- "I need help with the chassis on this Europa. What do you guys think?"

GRM- "Well, you could do this, but how 'bout we show up with a welder or two and help you out?"

*Every GRMer with a welder in a three state radius contemplates how to make it to SVreX's place*

In reply to Recon1342 :

Absolutely!  Perfect!

Hey, since you mentioned that you don't have any glass, this might be a bad ass look that'd keep ya from chasing down a windshield.

I can't take creative credits, stole it from the Europa FB group at some point.

OK, I've decided to follow the consensus of advice.  I'm back to the MR2 chassis.  Even if I lose ALL of my structural rigidity, I still have a basic platform, and MR2 suspension geometry.

I have absolutely no worries about ruining the car- the MR2 and the Europa are both a mess.  I will chop till they fit, and then start building back up.

I will cut and fit any needed reinforcement pieces, tack them together with my 110V wire feed, then hire a welder to make it good (or bring a new team member on who can weld).  

wheelsmithy said:

I am no engineer, and would be concerned with 300 horsepower in a cut up MR2 chassis, but I do think the strength COULD be gotten by a non-welding method.

Am engineer.  Of course you can get strength through this method.  Its basically what you do with carbon fiber. 

However it is very difficult to do properly, especially with unlike materials.  Entire sub sections of materials engineering are based around it.  If you don't know what you're doing with it I would not recommend for anything beyond cosmetic.

SVreX said:

OK, I've decided to follow the consensus of advice.  I'm back to the MR2 chassis.  Even if I lose ALL of my structural rigidity, I still have a basic platform, and MR2 suspension geometry.

I have absolutely no worries about ruining the car- the MR2 and the Europa are both a mess.  I will chop till they fit, and then start building back up.

I will cut and fit any needed reinforcement pieces, tack them together with my 110V wire feed, then hire a welder to make it good (or bring a new team member on who can weld).  

Good plan, will be watching with interest. I would be happy to weld up your car once it is cut up to clear the Europa, but MD is not close to SC and you would need 220 in the trailer to weld with my Millermatic. I am certain a GRM'er will step up in the area, this community is tight!

In reply to dherr :

The car isn't gonna stay in the trailer forever.  Once the 3 cars are reduced to roughly the equivalent of 1 car, I will move it to my garage.

If my wife saw it now, I'd be out on my keister!

These pics gave me the courage to go ahead and hack the Europa.  Looks like there will still be enough body integrity to lift it, even with no floor.

My wife just discovered my MR2 on Saturday :-)  

She was out in the yard looking at me working on the two Miatas and when I walked to the HF "tent" i put up the yard, she said show me the parts you have in there, so I just said that my next project was in there. She just shook her head and went back into the house......

MR2 chopping ongoing: