In reply to RoddyMac17 :
Excellent. Very helpful. Thank you.
In reply to RoddyMac17 :
Excellent. Very helpful. Thank you.
If I build a rear half tube frame, I can go straight to the Avalon components. Make the subframe and suspension bolt straight in.
Should solve a lot of other problems, like better suspension, matched transaxle, and bigger stronger wheels, hubs, and brakes.
I just realized, there's a guy on the Europa board who has already done the swap: 2GR Swap
In reply to RoddyMac17 :
Excellent. Thanks!
So a couple of thoughts:
A tube frame would be better in many ways than reusing the old MR2 chassis, potentially safer and stronger, etc.
However, it is a larger undertaking, especially for a new builder working out of a container with little to no power. Not that it can't be done, but do you have the time cycles to do all of the manual effort involved? How are you going to cut and bend tubing? You can run a MIG off a rack of deep cycle batteries for example. Cutting tube generally requires a decent saw. Bending it can be done with a hydraulic bender, but the dies included with the HF bender can work, but it requires sand packing. Proper dies are available, but that's another hole to go down, etc.
So my suggestion is this:
Build it with the MR2 chassis, its really close as you've noted, except for the firewall/frame horns, etc. Learn some welding/fabricating with less potential for catastrophic failure or scope creeping yourself out of completion/competition.
Once the competition is over, enjoy the car as much as you can, but go ahead and plan on building a proper tube frame to correct some of the issues you may note during the build/competition. You can take your time, build a few small things like a welding cart, fun kart, etc. and if you keep the original chassis you could potentially start the build from that without taking the car apart. Heck, maybe another free Europa body might turn up and you could end up with a better starting point for a build, etc.
Couple of thoughts here. MR2 chassis is definitely the easier option, I would not be afraid to keep cutting away until it fits the body, adding bracing is much simpler than creating a new chassis. The negatives you stated about using the MR2 are actually positives in many regards, for example the MR2's wiring harness can be simplified to make a reliable electrical system verse building your own. Much easier to keep the dash, gauges, systems of the car that will work with the V6 engine much easier than building from scratch. Since the 2GR engine can be swapped in the AW11 chassis, someone else has already figured out the issues, wiring, axles, mounts, etc.... just reverse engineer what has been done by others. Especially since you are not a welder. But it would be worth learning how to weld as it will transform what you will feel capable of building. I think that skill transformed my fabrication skills more than anything else I have learned. Once you can weld, you know you can probably make anything work.
Building a new chassis or modifying the Europa chassis are definitely possible and perhaps the better outcome but that will change this to a much more complex project. It would require cutting off the rear frame of the Europa chassis and building a new frame support to mount the Avalon subframe or building the entire rear chassis to support the Avalon components. You will need to learn to weld or go find a close friend to make all that happen. Plus all the issues with a lack of roll bar support, etc.... Not talking you out of it, but making sure you know what you are getting into if you go down that rabbit hole. Roddymac17's car is amazing, but not something you are likely to build without a shop, good welder and lots of time.
It can't hurt to keep working on the MR2 to see if it can be made to work as it can be braced once you have made all the necessary clearances. I would also figure out how to mount that 2GR in the MR2 chassis using ideas from https://www.rat2motorsports.com/pages/2gr-swap-full-swap-package as this can all be made to work within the MR2 chassis and result in a drivable car much quicker and easier than trying to build your own chassis from basically scratch. Just my 2 cents....
Like the MRS cart project above, if you can cut away that AW11 chassis down as far as necessary to fit the body, get the 2GR engine/transmission installed and brace/cage the AW11 chassis, that Europa body is just a "skin" at that point. You can do all your cutting and test fitting of the chassis and then concentrate on getting a running/driving chassis like above and then fit the body once you have all the major work done. That seems more achievable given the constraints of the shop, time, welding and budget. Hell you got me thinking about doing this type of rebody, especially since all the MRx chassis are available so cheap now.
In reply to dherr :
That’s good. I need as much input as I can get.
...although I may not listen! 
I'm happy to see the 2GR Europa was already linked. I think either approach, hacking in a rear subframe or doing up the MR2 would require some degree of welding.
Caging the MR2 would be easier since you can tack weld the cage, remove body, finish weld. That said, the cage Rod showed looks pretty stout and I'm saving as inspiration for my project.
Managing the budget on a true tube frame build is hard with all the hardware that adds up. If we're talking about welding in a subframe from another car, you'll have a better shot at avoiding spherical bearings or fancy poly bushings, and minimizing hardware that adds up pretty quick. I vote picking up a cheapo welder and do a subframe hack.
I've got a stretch for you:
What about panelbonding?
Gluing larger, lighter, properly shaped parts to get a stiff, lighter chassis.
This sounds dangerous, and you are a dad, so, research is definitely in order. Does anyone know if this lame-brained idea is feasible?
In reply to wheelsmithy :
Never heard of it. Examples?
Well, the Elise was "glued together", and modern cars often have the quarter panels bonded on, instead of welding.
I'm thinking, for instance, make a large, flat panel out of an old hood, or car roof that covers most of the door opening. Bead roll some stiffening into it, and glue and pop rivet it in there. Think about how much drywall stiffens up 2X4 framing, or a sheet of plywood strengthens a truss. Same concept here. Really light weight piece over a huge area, connected at lots of places (with rivets, continuously with glue) makes for a strong piece. Some metal origami, and I believe you could handle your problem with the cowl area.
Now all you need is a small metal brake, and a bead roller.
I am no engineer, and would be concerned with 300 horsepower in a cut up MR2 chassis, but I do think the strength COULD be gotten by a non-welding method.
I'd love it if somebody smarter than me would chime in, though.
In reply to wheelsmithy :
I've been reading up on panelbond adhesive. Looks like they pretty much universally do not recommend it for anything structural.
But yes, I like the idea for panel attachment.
In reply to SVreX :
Allright, what does Lotus use. This stuff has to be available. What about rivets, like an airplane? Folding box sections of sheet metal is doable.
I swear, I'm not trying to get you killed. It's just that the no welding constraint has my caffeine addled brain going. Cheers!
In reply to wheelsmithy :
Keep it up! Love the input!!
Attempting to keep the MR2s bones would allow you to use all the suspension components for them, and I think if you did some (close) Wartburg-level scrounging you could afford new AND in challenge-budget Koni shocks and Eibach springs, which are supposedly the best combo for the AW11 until you go coilovers- and even then that's an "if". But that's the big-deal option- there's hordes of others, and MatrixGarage used to have a HUGE writeup of all the options you could get off Rockauto and what they felt like.
I think the yellow Konis that fit the AW11 were also used/could fit in Saabs.
I'm gonna park this here, because it's awesome!
Beautiful work. I don't think I can consider anything that vaguely resembles that, but it sure is nice to see!
In reply to SVreX :
I feel like I'm missing something here. You said you don't have much fabrication ability, but you're starting with a complete europa chassis and body-why not just get a europa engine in there and get the thing to Challege?
Will it be super competitive in it's first year? No, but who the hell cares-it's a Europa at the Challenge. The curse will be lifted!
Will it be super safe? No more or less than in 196x when it rolled (stumbled? wobbled? I'm assuming it ran at some point) off the assembly line. I don't see how you can flip it on autoX, and it probably won't have enough power to break the rear free in the drags. If you're concerned then I bet you can fit room in your budget for something like this-http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=578.0
Hit the easy button
In reply to CrustyRedXpress :
I have no interest in a stock Europa.
And I'm missing a HUGE quantity of parts. Engine, trans, rear end, rear suspension, wheels, hubs, sway arms, entire interior, glass, electrical, etc etc etc. I ONLY have a bare body and a bare chassis. There is no way I can buy all of the Europa pieces and remain in Challenge budget.
I would spend YEARS searching for all those parts, and have no interest in owning them.
I appreciate the feedback, but that’s simply not a Challenge recipe. If I wanted super easy, I’d bring something I already own.
I’m in the game to play. And I’m targeting the podium.
Sand rail chassis + Subaru power + Dzus fasteners + removable Europa body = SVreX
Do you have any pictures of the Avalon subframe and suspension? That's assuming it has one and didn't just hang everything all on the body. Like how it bolts to the front and rear?
If it were me, I'd be looking at adapting some common front suspension to the Lotus chassis and creating a tubular structure at the rear to accept whatever drive train you want. Without having the car to look at figuring out the details isn't possible from a distance. As for the MR2 chassis ,the only thing I see that I'd be concerned about is the distance the top strut mount is from the ground. Will that dimension fit beneath the Europa body at it's proper ride height? Cutting and reshaping the cowl area can be figured out, I think.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
The strut towers fit.
Its not quite a bare chassis. I have the entire front suspension and steering.
In reply to nocones :
It does have a subframe. I’m struggling finding decent pics.
Here's the bare subframe:
Here's the view from underneath:
And here's the assembly out of the car:
The NARROW end of the subframe is toward the rear of the car.
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