Life with a 1985 CRX Si

I pulled my Honda Helms  for the 87.   The diagram in the cooling section does not show a relay for the rad fan.  I see what you mean

go to the end of the electrical section, last chapter of helms.  In mine for the 87  it's page 27-20.  After this page, It converts to three page fold out wire schematics.  In my book, theses pages aren't labeled.   On the second fold out page, it shows the relays for the radiator, condenser fans, and the ac clutch fans.  Theses three relays plus a diode are located next to the radiator, mounted right at the radiator overflow tank.  The 3 relays are identical, unlabeled.   Have to sort out which is which

ill post some pix when I get home later tonight

im wondering if the solder joints/contactors of that relay give an intermittent failure similar to our main relay?

just a thought of potential  cause

another odd balled problem our cars have is when removing the radiator w an ac system, some of the plug harness wire connectors looks the same.  I accidentally swapped 2 of these plugs 25 years ago and it blew out my climate control and killed my ac.   Do you have AC?

 When I swapped the connectors, I think the rad fan worked during the time my ac was dead until I figured it out.  So this path is a stretch.....

I'm using the factory manuals for an '85 Si on this. I do know what AC relays you're talking about. The factory manual has information on the AC hardware, but not the wiring. If you can take a pic of that schematic with the AC relays, that would be useful. I've pulled the AC relays and I definitely want to clean the connectors. I've also confirmed that if the relays are unplugged, the fan won't run even with the thermosensor jumped. So your reasoning seems to be valid.

On the way to the track, I did notice the idle was up a bit - just over 1000. The AC has an idle speed solenoid, I wonder if that's a related symptom. The idle speed is not rock solid on this car, though.

If I can figure out how to disassemble the relays, I'll look inside. Otherwise, I have confirmed they have the same pin layout as a Miata AC relay. I might just drop some those in because I have easy access to more :)

I also ran a hand over the tires. They're past their best. Loads of tread but they've got a 2016 date and they feel hard. I'll have to start keeping an eye out for deals on the Yokohama Fleva.

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :

I think they still offer black ones, but blue seems to be NLA. I will drop by the Honda dealership and see. I'm not keen to have a stranger messing with my interior panels at the moment. 

That's what I figured, but you could always remove the panel yourself before you get there.

It looks happy.

Nice shot Keith!

Page out of Honda's Electrical service manual by Helms.  This shows SI w & wo AC.....

My 87 crx si Helms (FSM).  All the pencil scratching  from 23yrs ago trying to fix my AC after I changed radiators and swapped those conntectors at the cooling/condensor fan area.....  I have twist ties marking those connectors on most of my CRXs now so I don't do it again.   Apparently a common mistake as I discovered searching for replacement climate controls at junkyard years back.

Does the back of your 85 FSM have 10-15 3-page schematic pull outs??

I dont' hear the cooling fan come on either when I'm in the car.  But I definately feel the idle drop when it turns on waiting at a light.    

I don't push my car at all.  Easy city DD and nice long cross county road trips.  She's at 295K.. Maybe your altitude and dry air push the cooling design to the limits??

Thanks for that. I have the electrical pullouts in my factory manuals, but i don't have the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual that appears to have more information. There's no Si AC wiring on my pullouts - it could be because the Si was introduced later in the year, and I know there was at least one 85 FSM printing that did not have the Si in it. My printing covers the Si but it may not have the optional AC wiring in there. So I just spent $10.81 on eBay and ordered my electrical troubleshooting manual that includes the Si fans :)

The altitude, dry air and track design all conspire to push cooling systems hard. A stock C5 Corvette would also overheat with the same use, and there was at least one naturally aspirated Miata that called it quits before I did. So it's not a fundamental flaw with the system, but I didn't like the way the fan was (or was not) working so I want to make sure that's not an ongoing problem.

Good news! There was a second package in the shipment of body parts. It wasn't in the tracking I was sent, but it showed up today. So that's a full set of plastics redone in very nice fibreglass. At some point, I'll paint them up and mount them, but for the time being they're insurance against future problems. 

I also took another dive into my FSM and found the air conditioning sub diagram. Whoops. I think I skipped over it because most of the page is emission-related and maybe it had been a long hot day at the track. But I found it now!

Now I've got the wire colors, I can identify which of the relays is the cooling fan relay. And well, we certainly have some things to clean up. The yellow stuff is grease of some sort, but there's some corrosion on the power feed at least. I'll pull these apart and get them all cleaned up.

Great find on the connector.  Lets us know how u clean them?  I've never disassembled Honda connectors.  I have a headlight needs a connector wiggle from time to time.  Further examination needed on my end.  Curious if you pull the clips and clean.

I guess Honda had a drafting guy in the back that didn't like to copy and paste similar schematics over the years,...  and within the same book.  
 

im really interested in the quality and fit of those panels.   Looking forward to what you think

I poked around a bit to try to disassemble the connectors. They're fairly standard, but I couldn't get a terminal loose without getting out of my comfort zone with old plastic. It doesn't help that the AC harness is fairly short so I was working in a small space.

So I went to my terminal cleaning tools from IPA - Pete told me about them a while back, I think. Basically, they're little files you can use to clean off oxidation and corrosion. I started with some terminal cleaner and Deoxit then scrubbed these guys around.

I also took a step to aid in future troubleshooting. Also did some bench testing with a battery to show the relays were working just fine at least at that moment.

Also, I found this.

That's the power wire to trigger the cooling fan relay. And weirdly, that's the same F4 tape I use sometimes. Did I spot this when doing the headlights back in 2014 or so? I dunno, but let's look inside.

That's not good. Looks like just damaged insulation so it's unlikely to be my problem, but I cut out this area and spliced it back together.

so no real smoking gun, but I'm more familiar with the system now and I have more confidence in the quality of the electrical connections. If the fan decides not to run, I can swap the condensor and cooling fan relays on the side of the road. I can also jumper the cooling fan relay connector to take the relay out of the loop completely. Since I don't have functioning AC right now, this is not a problem.

All back together and ready for some drive testing.

I forgot to post an update, but there's nothing wrong with my seatbelts. Turns out the CRX belts are locked by a backwards acceleration (or deceleration, if you prefer to think of it that way) of the vehicle itself - not a rapid extension of the belt. So you can't lock them by giving the belt a sharp jerk.

This is probably a typical Honda thing, or Honda of the era thing, and I was just unaware of it. So there you go. 

In other news, there's no news. The CRX has been sitting in my shop for a month as I deal with other things like a long, long trip to Miatas At The Gap. I'll get it out this week and play with it. The new body panels have been put away on a high shelf in the garage as they're a hedge against future problems.

The Ronals look perfect on your Honda, Keith.

Keith Tanner said:

I forgot to post an update, but there's nothing wrong with my seatbelts. Turns out the CRX belts are locked by a backwards acceleration (or deceleration, if you prefer to think of it that way) of the vehicle itself - not a rapid extension of the belt. So you can't lock them by giving the belt a sharp jerk.

This is probably a typical Honda thing, or Honda of the era thing, and I was just unaware of it. So there you go.

This is interesting, my Rx7 is the same way. IIRC there's a little ball-bearing looking thing that sits in a cup, and if it's in the center of the cup the belt doesn't lock. When the ball is not in the center of the cup (rolled forward or back due to accel or decel) the belt locks up.

I ended up replacing the seat belts years ago thinking they were faulty, only to find I had wasted my money. But hey, I learned something.

In reply to WondrousBread :

Haha exactly what I did just this year, also with an RX-7.

I think replacing the webbing on 30 year old seat belts is probably worth it even if you did it for the wrong reasons...

probably not a bad idea to put new ones in if it's still got the original, decades old webbing in the belts. This reminds me of how funny it is that track day orgs will let you run 60 year old original belts but if your brand new 6 point belt is 1 day over the 3 year SFI certification it's no good

In reply to Berck :

you beat me to it

You're not wrong, but I consider old webbing (which still feels flexible/smooth and has no abrasion) to be less of a concern than a belt that won't lock. OE seatbelt material is made of different stuff than harnesses and it's protected from UV when not in use. Still, I'll start looking around to see if I can find a place to reweb them in the right blue. 

And, umm, 1985 is closer to 40 years old than 30...

I've seen several recommendations for Safety Restore and was planning on sending them my Miata belts this winter since the tan ones on my BRG have been NLA from Mazda for awhile.  Mine are a combination of UV faded and sweat stained. They claim to do color matching...
 

Good tip, thanks!

Was this a planned modification or not? Trent offered up a pristine MOMO V35 Corse steering wheel with grey leather for sale on the forum and I was the lucky one to snag it. It's from 1989 so it's era appropriate for the CRX.

How was this possibly planned? A while back, I picked up a MOMO adapter for the CRX because...well, because I have a lot of MOMO wheels and there was a good chance one would end up on the car. Never found one in my stash that I liked well enough, but that 1989 Corse was perfect.

Step 1, find the correct button from my collection. This is from a mid-90s Competition. I have this in both concave and convex styles. Great match to the leather but maybe a little too 90s. In the 80s, we would have played up the MOMO logo instead of going monochrome.

Classic.

Ah, there we go. I have no idea how I happen to have this horn button, but I'm cool with it.

In the car. The camera is not kind to the color combo, in person the blues have more grey in them and the wheel fits right in.

This wheel has the same shape as the Competition I had on my street Miata for years and I think it also matches the shape of the Martini MOMO that's on the Targa Miata (and which I realize I don't think I've ever shown on the forum). So it immediately feels very familiar in my hands. It's very slightly smaller than stock and the spacing is spot on. It just plain feels great and looks right with a little added bonus of extra leg clearance. I'm right chuffed with this.

I can also report the CRX is a very handy size for carrying hockey gear, although if you have a teammate with you they'll have to deal with sticks along the side of the seat :)

Looks great!

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Nice!

And you've shown the Momo Martini here before. I know this to be true because that's what started my quest to find a Momo Martini. Please feel free to post more pictures of it though!

In reply to 759NRNG :

Yeah, I need to get that lighting back :) Or that camera. It's a much more realistic  rendition. 
 

I'll see if I can find a full pic of the Martini. Here's the center section showing off a mode switch I added.

Keith Tanner said:

It looks happy.

Dang, there's a lot of helmet filling that cockpit!