Making parts for a Fiat

The last bits of the intake manifold build are to put in ports for the PCV system and install the MAT sensor. Easy, right?

Except to know where I can fit those I need to know where they can't be and where they can't be are the spaces the fuel rail and thermostat housing need to occupy.

Soooooo..... thermostat.. yeah....

The thermostat housing on the Suzy motor sticks out the back of the cylinder head about 5 inches or so. Through the firewall and well into where the fuel tank sat and I hope will be again.  

On the intake side of the head is a 1/2" heater port. I want to use that area to run to an external thermostat housing. First thought was to mill that area out and weld in an extension.

But looking at it after I leveled it out I had an idea.

The hole being in the lower left corner of that block was why I couldn't just drill and tap it to -12 or something. But what if I machined that face at a bevel? That would point the threads level in relation to the angle of the motor AND move the hole towards the middle of that space.... in theory at least.

and it worked!

so I cut threads in it. 

And then, still not knowing what I am making I turned up a quick base that threads into the new coolant outlet on the head

Patting myself on the back, I started planning some sort of thermostat housing that would mount to the number 4 intake runner and then I looked at the space I had and went dangit, Fuel rail and assorted gubbins goes there too, doesn't it.  

So I wrung my hands for a while and then ordered some Bosch 550cc injectors

and I grabbed some more of the same aluminum bar I made the control arms from and drilled a 13" deep hole. It was annoying and I really would have been better off drilling from both ends but for some reason I didn't.

And then some machining happened

and I have  a fuel rail. I mounted a WRX regulator to it. I am already dissatisfied with it. I would really prefer one with a barb for OE style quick disconnect fittings. I like using nylon fuel lines

I was able to drill and tap the intake for the MAT sensor.  Final step on the rail is the inlet. Still deciding what to do there

So the regulator sits pretty much exactly where I was going to put the thermostat housing. I think that is probably a blessing in disguise as I now realize it would be almost impossible to access once in the car. Current thinking is to turn that base I threaded into the head into a hose barb and figure out where I want to put the new bits under the intake.

As always, more later

 

I know this is very premature, but I needed a bit of a mojo boost. I just wanted something to look a bit more "done"

A can of VHT wrinkle red and a bit more mocking up

That was worth it I will most definitely strip this off later as I change things, but for now I feel like more progress has been made than I did yesterday. 

I made a banjo fitting to point the 5/16" quick disconnect backwards and drilled and tapped the end of the fuel rail. So that part is complete. The other banjo fitting in the package became the plenum side of the PCV line. 

Next step is cam angle sensor. I have ideas for that.

Man.

This is gonna be an attractive car when you're done

Plenumba e testa rosa!

Wow, the fabrication skills you have are incredible!

Hooollleeeeeee berkeley. 

Ill be in my bunk. 

There was another trip between updates.

I went to England for a week to meet up with a bunch of shops and talk management software, techniques, common issues and just have a good time. We made it a point to try to only stay in places that were older than the USA  We also stopped in to any vendors we have relationships with and just anyone willing to give us a tour of their facilities. SNG Barratt, Jenvey, Alfaholics, CMC, Tuthill Porsche, Cropredy Bridge, Middle Barton Garage, Holden, Morgan.......

First stop was with Callum at RetroPower. RP was the impetus for the whole trip. 

Cal set us up for the night in a pub in Market Bosworth. The Dixie Arms dates from 1571 so that was a good start!

Walked down the road and found a church that is celebrating its 700th birthday this year. Amazing!

 Tuthill Porsche

Just WOW. Huge operation. Those 911Ks are amazing.

Middle Barton. Tony is 77 years old and just now thinking about retiring in a few years

Got to see one of my favorite builds of all time

This Giulia would cost half a million pounds to reproduce. Full titanium supsension package including the axle tubes! 2.1 liter twinspark laying down 230hp. Such a sanitary build. 

And since we were travelling through the Salisbury plains...

We managed to see London, Market Bosworth, Cropredy, Banbury, Clevedon, Shropshire, Malvern and most places inbetween. I had a great time. I really liked it there. I would love to move there.
 

Anyway, because of the trip the progress on my project was minimal. I have been wringing my hands about what to do for a cam angle sensor. I really only need a single tooth. I bought and rejected half a dozen possible sensors from BMW VW GM and Ford. I finally decided to to just go with an industrial part. 
 

I think that little nubbin behind the gear is what we need

It is threaded M6 and is to hold the back of the timing cover in place

but if I take it out to M8X1.0 I think we've got something.

HOLY COINCIDENCE BATMAN! It lines up with the screws in the cam gears..... That means...... I can replace one stainless screw with a steel screw and I have my trigger!

And it works! Verified with a power supply and meter. It picks up the single screw when spun

And the wiring fits into the injector loom like I had planned for it! Well chuffed with that. So easy it felt like cheating. When life gives you an easy button, you smash that thing I guess.

I did also make the thermostat housing block off plate. It will be put in the next nickel plating batch to protect it.

Next step is the crank trigger. I need to decide on what wheel pattern to use and decide how I want to do it. After that is done the main components can go to the machine shop for boring/honing/decking/valve work..... I am looking forward to having the drivetrain finished up so I can focus on the chassis work.

 

Absolutely stunning machining work, love this thread!

What great progress and a very cool trip; so jealous. Any chance you were able to see BOM too, since you were in the Shropshire area?

Fun build, as a machinist I understand how you can just do things because you can.  As a machine builder, why use an unshielded sensor instead of a shielded one?   I would think a shielded would be more accurate and not pickup any false signals from surrounding metals.  

Somewhat related, my Mazda kept throwing a Cam sensor fault.  After swapping sensors it barely ran, so I measured from the valve cover to trigger ring.  The trigger to sensor distance was a bit too much, so I shaved .080 off of the sensor mount and reinstalled it.  All is well now but It got me thinking about how many times I heard of someone changing a cam or crank sensor only to have it get worse or not work at all.  Maybe it's in the wiring or voltage?  Either way adjusting the gap made it run and no more CEL.

Any concern over electrical noise for the cam sensor running with the injectors? Is the sensor you're using shielded? 

Oddly enough, the wire does not have the usual foil wrap in the insulation.  I will grab another one and check it out. M8X1.0 hall sensors are a pretty standard item

OK, just looked into it a bit more. VR sensors absolutely require shielded wiring, Hall effect sensors not so much. The OEM sensors I have here from VW, GM and BMW do not use shielded wiring. I looked under the hood of my E39 and that is not shielded either.

I will see if I need it and address it at that time. I have bigger fish to fry right now 

Trent said:

Oddly enough, the wire does not have the usual foil wrap in the insulation.  I will grab another one and check it out. M8X1.0 hall sensors are a pretty standard item

 

OK, just looked into it a bit more. VR sensors absolutely require shielded wiring, Hall effect sensors not so much. The OEM sensors I have here from VW, GM and BMW do not use shielded wiring. I looked under the hood of my E39 and that is not shielded either.

I will see if I need it and address it at that time. I have bigger fish to fry right now 

A HAL sensor signal is pretty large and distinct.  I  missed what you're using for an ECU but if it's specifically designed for a HAL sensor or has configurable triggering then you should be fine.

In reply to APEowner :

I have not decided what ECU I am using yet. For the last 20 years (and 8 different cars) I have had various versions of megasquirt running my personal projects. Professionally we use Haltech pretty exclusively unless we get a Motec or Link system in a kit provided by the owner. 

When I reached out for support from the MS forums and FB groups last year when injecting my mini, I swore I would never use Megasquirt again. One should never need to endure that level of personal abuse when asking a simple question. The idea of the open source, user provided support is good until you realize that most humans on the internet are jerks. OTOH I still have a brand new MS2V3 sitting in a drawer.

Up for consideration currently are 

Maxxecu mini

Haltech 550

ECU Proyect Titan (probably a support nightmare considering the language barrier)

AMP'd Microsquirt (on the assumption that DIY Autotune can provide support)

MS2V3 that I already own

If anyone has suggestions for others, let me know. It will be a fully sequential coil on plug 4 cylinder running under 20psi. Nothing major

I am planning on using the MaxxECU Mini on my project, but that is based on my research and finding a tuner here that has experience with small engines and will build me a base tune for my 903. So watching with interest!

I'll be running the slightly larger Haltech 750 on my 914. If you're familiar with Haltech at all I'd just go with the 550. So much support available and simple enough even a plebeian like myself can figure it out. 

In reply to Trent :

They may not be "shielded" but they almost certainly have twisted wires to cancel noise. GM is a fan of using twisted pair wiring for speed sensors.

A lot of other automakers do use shielding.

A cheapish way to shield them that I learned from an old racer, if you can stomach (or hide) the look, is to run the wires through a length of braided AN line and ground one end.  I forget now which end should be grounded.

Regarding computers, the Microsquirt is MS2 based. It's the MS2 you already have but in a nicer case, more or less.  They have a new product called MS3Pro Mini or somesuch.  It's more or less an MS3Pro that has pared down inputs and outputs, but I think it is still enough to run a 4 cylinder engine with sequential fuel and spark (Micro has only two outputs each) and enough inputs and outputs to control the turbo engine controllables.   Not much more expensive than a Micro but a lot cheaper than a full Pro and about half the size.

I've tuned MS1, 2, 2/Extra, and MS3Pro.  They are all the same as far as the tuning experience is concerned, the major differences are controller speed and I/O capabilities, and the increased speed of the 3's processor allows for advanced compensation for extremely small pulse widths where injectors are nonlinear (and you probably won't need this) and cylinder by cylinder trimming and other neato gee-whiz stuff that 99% of people won't ever use but the capability is there and someone once asked nicely for it. 

But the super nice thing about the Pro boxen is that you don't have to mess with changing resistors or capacitors or whatever, all input characterization is done with software changes because the hardware is better.  Also the cases and wiring look a lot nicer.

Trent said:

OTOH I still have a brand new MS2V3 sitting in a drawer.

Is that so? On the admittedly slender chance you have just the MS2 daughterboard, as opposed to the entire kit, I might be interested. 

Great trip. Man, that Porsche shop makes me miss the days when we built cars. But our shop never ever looked like that.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I dig the over office parking.  A genius of a madman thought that up.

Keith Tanner said:

Great trip. Man, that Porsche shop makes me miss the days when we built cars. But our shop never ever looked like that.

Yes, forgot to mention the trip pictures, thanks for sharing the pictures, seeing all those ionic shops, like reading Classic and Sportscar!

Keith Tanner said:

Great trip. Man, that Porsche shop makes me miss the days when we built cars. But our shop never ever looked like that.

Tuthill was eye opening for sure. Super efficient and focused. They aren't a resto mod shop, they are an auto manufacturer that just happens to start with old shells.

I was already planning a trip back with the missus while I was there. I loved it and am really glad that the journey took us to so many smaller places. It is one thing to go to London or Manchester, but to see so many different places, hear so many different accents and phrases was wonderful.

We had some time to kill in Bridgenorth and found this Tudor tea house so we went in

and I ate a damn scone with clotted cream and jam and it was delicious

And one of our group wondered out loud how old the building was and I said that finding out was easy, he just needed to turn around

It is NOT a good time to be an American abroad, but most folks warmed up quickly after they brought up the "elephant in the room"as it were.

Trent said:

It is NOT a good time to be an American abroad...

"Abroad". <bites tongue>

I envy you the opportunity. 

Baby steps.

I am approaching the point where I will need a few things in place to work around. There are also quite a few pieces to the car that I don't want to change/ don't see an upside/ or peculiar enough Fiat things I want to keep. So a bit of refurbishment

The steering column. Simple, tiny, fits to an area I don't intend to modify. It is a keeper

Upon blowing it apart to clean, paint and repack the bearings I felt the the upper shaft just had to much gravity from the factory

Like, suspiciously heavy compared to the rest of the system. Every other piece of the shaft was 16ga tubing, why was this solid? because it was easier to manufacture, that's why.

Soooo.....

10mm hole bored through it

silly, I realize but also..... worry about the ounces and the pounds take care of themselves, right? At least if feels "normal" in the hand

The turn signal and headlight switch is a piece of Fiat/Italian car curiosity I intend to keep. 

Old Italian cars tended to have a headlight switch on the dash that does nothing but apply power to the short column switch which cycles between park/dip/main beams. 

But those cracked plastic stalks aren't cutting it. These chrome stalks from an earlier 1100 car almost worked but the angle of the switch portion was just a bit off

they are far classier and look similar enough to the Ferrari 308GT4 style to appeal greatly

So I cut back the plastic and welded the chrome arms to the 850 stalks. I also blasted and painted the column housing, fresh bearings, cleaned and lubed the ignition switch and viola!

One part done!!

Parking brake. I see no upside in replacing this

It is pretty rough. The hinge pin was massively worn. Better make a new one

And might as well make it hollow.  

Poked some holes because.... It is fun and after paint and nickel plating I think the exposed mechanicals part will look awesome

And the pedals

Another item I don't dilsike and will keep. However......

When driving Ferrari 308s I realized they have the same tiny footwell issue the 850 has, and one of the things they did about it was to shape the pedals to better fit around feet moving back and forth

so I took some measurements of one of the three in the shop currently, scrounged up a pair of used pedal pads and went to work

some cutting, welding and drilling and reassembled with some parts I had nickel plated a while back.

I also bent up a simple bracket to hold the adjustable proportioning valve to the master cylinder (another thing I have no reason to upgrade)

Now I have pedals and a master cylinder that will both be obstacles to clear when I go to connect the steering column to the steering rack. I fear that will be a bigger issue than it should be.

Anyone have experience with a steer clear style column drop? Anyone know how they feel?