My 1973 TVR 2500M : Renew and Restomod

In reply to TVR Scott :

That guy would be me! They are currently in storage over at brother Dustins. Ipl grab pictures next time im there

In reply to NOT A TA :

I wrote this in the Aero post too - the hole is just a construction aid so that I can see what's going on inside the box.  The final version will just be a flat plate.

I need to add a bead to the ends of the intercooler pipes so that my couplings don't blow off under pressure.

A little internet researchings came up with the idea of modifying some heavy wire cutters.  I went and picked up a pair at Harbor Fright, and ground away everything that wasn't a tube beading-tool:

In use you just go along the edge of the tube and crimp down on the aluminum.  Like this:

Here's the end result on a leftover piece of my mandrel bend tubing.  Pretty nicely formed bead, with only a little marking.  I spent a lot of time polishing the jaws to see if I could get it mark-free but I think that's just part of the game with this method.

Here's a pic of some of my straight tubing.  You'll notice the bead is much shallower in this material, and also the ridge of the bead has cracked.  This is where temper really shows up - the mandrel bends are zero-temper material, while the straight tubing is T6 heat treated.

Watch this space for more on aluminum tempers, annealing, and heat treatment.  Coming soon...

6061 doesn't anneal very well. You need to start with 6061T4 or another alloy altogether. If you are stuck with the T6 do the bead with weld instead.

Oil fittings - I was going to use the adaptor and fittings the PO had installed on the TR-6 motor.  But it looked like this:

It's just too close to the frame tube, and I can't get the fittings on.  No way to clock it, as far as I know (please tell me if there's a way).

So I spent some money and got a Moroso 90 deg adaptor with AN-10 swivel fittings.  Here:

The piece of hose and the oil cooler are from the PO's setup too.

Complicating factor - I thought the old hoses were also AN-10.  Didn't measure, I guess.  Guessed wrong - they're AN-8.  I had intended to reuse some of these fittings and save myself some buck.  Some are trash, but some look ok.  Would probably get all new hose, though.

So now I'm questioning whether to try and return the AN-10 swivels, or to just convert all the oil lines to AN-10.  I'm buying new hose regardless.  The ports on the oil cooler are big enough that they match the ID on the AN-10 fitting, so maybe it wants more flow.

I saw an add-on oil cooler kit for the Focus ST, and it had AN-10 lines.  So maybe I should just go that way.

Thoughts?

Go with the AN 10. I would spring for a new cooler too unless you are certain that the old one never endured an engine malfunction involving metallic lubricant. That is a very real possibility with the TR6 lump and a home brew turbo. I have many years experience with this style oil cooler (from stock MGB to Can-Am McLaren) and strongly recommend you do not use the mounting ears. Mount it in a rubber lined clamp. Keep it as flexy as you can without letting it wander off chassis. They remain the best option for performance regardless of price.

In reply to TurnerX19 :

I cannot guarantee that the TR-6 lump didn't donate some of it's metal to enhancing the oil cooler.  There's a fair chance it did.

It's only money, I guess...

Do you have any pictures of your mounting scheme on that oil cooler?  I read more or less the same advice in one of Carroll Smith's books.

  That looks a lot like a B&M cooler, part #70265

    If your not sure about the cooler, might be better to replace it.  A oil cooler isn't that expensive.

In reply to TED_fiestaHP :

I think it's a variant of an Earl's cooler.  The (less than beautiful) welded-on fittings on this old unit make me a bit nervous too.

I think this new unit from Earl's would do the job pretty well:

Same fitting size as my new oil adaptor.

Just wanted to let you know about those billet wheels. Brother Dustin really wants to keep him for his Z car. Sorry for getting your hopes up.

Dusterbd13-michael said:

Just wanted to let you know about those billet wheels. Brother Dustin really wants to keep him for his Z car. Sorry for getting your hopes up.

No worries!  I've got my heart set on Panasports!

This is the only oil cooler install photo I can find that illustrates my favorite technique, but rather poorly This is Eagle F5000 as driven by  the late Tony Adamowicz when it was on an east coast visit jammed into the tiny shop I was working in at the time. It is hard to spot that there are very long 1/4" bolts through aluminum tubes that hold a rubber lined top beam clamping the cooler down onto a rubber lined bottom beam. The mounting ears on the cooler matrix are clearanced for the tubes. This vibration reduction is actually less necessary on the 8 cylinder engine than it is on a 4 cylinder due to the secondary shake that is present. Also bigger. shorter and stiffer hoses amplify the issue. With long floppy "rubber" hoses MG got away with using the mounting ears mostly, but I did see failures back when those cars were common to my purview. When possible I also prefer to cool after the filter, but that is a 50/50 proposition when you are not creating an entire dry sump system.

In reply to TurnerX19 :

Very good info, thanks. 

I think I'm emerging from my design-death-spiral with a plan.  On the Holley website, they list recommended horsepower ranges for various coolers.  The 419ERL is a bit taller than the one I show above, and is rated at 220-310 Hp.  And I think I can package that.

I could possibly go for the wider and shorter 813ERL, but it is technically rated at 190-270 hp.  I'm feeling like more is better - since I'm buying a new unit regardless.

Any advice on mounting?  Can I put the fittings to the bottom?  Or the side?  Is air entrapment a concern with oil coolers?

Earl's oil cooler, Swivel-Seal fittings, and 10 ft of fancy-pants hose have been purchased.  Definitely more than I wanted to spend, but now I know it'll be top quality and ready to go.

In reply to TVR Scott :

Think about all the time and money you'll save not sucking unknown grit from the old cooler into that engine...

Ransom said:

In reply to TVR Scott :

Think about all the time and money you'll save not sucking unknown grit from the old cooler into that engine...

Oh yes.  I've thought a lot about that.  And that I don't want this car to be light on cooling capacity.

In my 24 hours of indecision (which is really pretty good for me) I even trolled craigslist a bit looking for oil coolers.  Found one that was a little bigger than what I already had, and a little smaller than what I bought.  Used on a 350 in a Pikes Peak hill-climber.  Again, unknowns.  To save a little money.

Maybe I'll make a festive holiday wreath out of the leftover used braided hose and Blue/Red fittings.  Thinking about it more, that sounds ridiculously cool.  That will happen.

Put the lines to the top of the cooler, otherwise you have some possibility of drain back. Note in my photo of the Eagle the hoses go to the bottom, but that cooler is between the scavenge pump and the tank, where the delay and the air bubble are unimportant. Cooler needs to stay full when the engine is not running.

This afternoon I managed to salvage a fairly unproductive weekend.  Yesterday was the day for messing around and making mistakes and pursuing dumb ideas.  Today I kicked butt.  Today parts got made.

I needed to make a MAP sensor mount for the intercooler intake pipe.  My daughter has been messing with Solidworks, so I handed her the sensor, the calipers, and the directive to design the part.  She did, and it only took a few tweaks to get what I wanted.  I put together the tool-paths, and then it was miller-time:

I put a M6 helicoil in the bolt hole, and dug up a bolt from my Metric spares.  Here it is finished with the sensor:

Back side:

Then I fired up the welder and buzzed it in - I'm very happy how it turned out:

Since I was rockin' and feeling good, I went ahead and made up some end caps for my coolant expansion tank.  I'm not totally sure where this is going to end up in the engine bay, but I have a rough idea.

I had previously bought a pressure cap mount, and I've been sitting on it for about a year.  Got that burned in too:

Came out pretty well.  Man did that tank heat up by the time I was done.  Lordy, even with MIG gloves it was hard to turn! 

Bottom side:

I need to add in a pipe to connect with the engine side.  Will need to figure out size and location.  Any rules of thumb?

Also, I'll add a drain hole on the bottom, or maybe run a permanent tube from the air bleed on the intake side of the radiator.

That's it for now!

Aren't you going to need to MAP behind the throttle, so as to measure vacuum, not just boost?

SkinnyG said:

Aren't you going to need to MAP behind the throttle, so as to measure vacuum, not just boost?

There are actually two MAP sensors.  This one and one on the manifold.  My understanding is one of them also has a temp sensor function too.

These sensors are the source of significant confusion in the (rather small) 2.0 EcoBoost swapping community.  The sensor that will come on the manifold of a junkyard engine does not line up with the holes of the manifold that comes with the N/S kit.  This manifold looks to be from the 2.3 EB, as a lot of the N/S parts seem to be.

The sensor that does fit on the new manifold is listed as the one that should go on the intercooler inlet.  There are plugs on the harness for both.  The Ford Performance guys are not super helpful on this matter.  I'm going to run it this way and cross my fingers.

There's also apparently a temp sensor for the airbox, but some say this isn't necessary.  I ordered the supposedly correct sensor, and it looks just like the coolant temp sensor to me.  I might do some modest tear-down of my Focus ST and see what I can find.

I was feeling like an optimist tonight and went over to the parts store in search of random radiator hoses that would magically hook up to my system.  The counter guy was nice enough to humor me, and we dug thru his hose assortment.

I picked out a couple that I thought had potential and I dragged them home.

Nope.

Not even very close.  One was sort of the right shape, but much too long.  The other was roughly the right size, but needs to fit into a weird location.  I doubt I'll be successful messing with stock hoses.

I think some 1-1/4" aluminum tube and some mandrel bends will be in my near future.  Weird turns to make.  Unless I go pie-cuts.  Maybe I'll bust out the chop saw and do that.

Aww, lookie what I found in my aluminum pile - about 10 ft of 1-1/4" x .065" wall tubing:

Game.  On.

Got my oil cooler, fittings, and hose in the other day.  The oil cooler says to only use certain 7/8"14 fittings, since the regular ones are longer.  I wanted to use 90 deg swivel fittings instead of doing the straight adaptors and elbow AN fittings.

So I had to trim a little off of the elbows.  Specifically, I took off 0.060".

These fit just fine now.  Boy, are the Earl's fittings a nice piece of equipment!

I'm working up a couple options on the oil cooler mount.  I need to see if my first choice will actually fit at all.

Otherwise, aluminum bends and hoses the radiator plumbing are one the way.

Spent last weekend until Tuesday away with the family, and then my work has been crazy busy, so the TVR has not gotten a lot of love and attention lately. I did order stupid amounts of parts while we were away, though!

Did a little bit today - just turned an inlet for my radiator expansion tank. This will go to the thermostat housing.

I like using hex stock for these kind of parts. Looks nice and gives the wrench flat. I buy gobs of surplus lengths.

Also bought this for rolling tube beads!

It's pretty fun, and seems to work well. I'll need to practice a bit, but definitely a step up.

I'm hoping to carve out a big chunk of time on Sat for more welding. We'll see.

No epic welding session today, but I did do a bit of radiator fan wiring.

I got some Weatherpack connectors for these connections. They're actually not very expensive buying from Del City in bulk.

I am following the DusterBD method of goop / crimp / tug and so far so good.