PRO Class Challenge cars

We Have the 2017 class and over the time I have been around several other Sub- class venues have been tossed around, Vintage, Trucks, Luxo barge, Aristocat,there is even a Sub 1000 dollar class I think. a couple weeks ago I even brought up C4's in 2018 seemed like a hit maybe.

What if we had a Pro Class that was Allowed an Extra 1000.00 bucks and had to Adhere to a Strict set of Saftey rules but could be a "Run what you Brung" like a top class,  road race or if you will Outlaw.you Know lotus 7's with Big engines or Ultra lights with Chaindrive Motorcycle and BIG Wings, Minimal Body work, engine of choice Or Multple engines, Old sprint cars made to turn on asphalt, Hill Climbers, SCCA type A-Mod B-Mod.you know wide open but Very Safe.It could be lots of action and VERY Fast,and lots less expensive than a Nationals car, You Know GRM Style.

So Not A Good Idea. Or best ever. We could Take the Show on the Road, At The runway at Amilia, Parking Lot Before the Mitty. Sure The Cheese and Wine Crowd Would Faint, That's the Idea !!

In reply to GTXVette:

I'll bring the block of Velveeta, box o' Rose' and sleeve of Ritz. (Only if you won't shun me like the local PCA chapter.)

There is already plenty of pro grade builds turning up on the current rules and budget, which if played to the full is a good bit more than $2017 in real world money. Some of these are so fast that thier safety is a concern.

The sub classes are good reading for the forum and magazine subscribers, and probably a good way to bump up the participation a little, but I think they will detract from the event if over played.

I think it's good like it is. One featured sub class, and sub $1000 class, and of course, the basic $2017 race cars that kick a$$.

Don't forget that to people outside this community the thing is a mind blower. I know guys that routinely spend more than the whole challenge budget on parts for thier drag cars, that couldn't beat the top tier drag cars from the challenge. I've talked about the challenge to some of these dudes, and they don't think it's real. Adding the Pro class with extra budget would only allow those guys to say "I told you so!".

We need to stick it to those guys, not not justify them.

Here's an idea, how about a bounty for a sub $1000 10 second pass?

I would like to play the Bounty Hunter here But it would Likely Melt the engine. I am Buying Pimpn3's Fiero and will sell off enough to stay under 1000.00.

I keep pushing for saftey To be excluded from the budget but so far to no avail,I Will Have a Cage of proper Design and Fire suppresion On My Vette 'Cause it will be street Legal and I want to attend shows like VIR's Fastest car shootout and anything else Fitting of it's ability's, were it not for Saftey I could be Darn Close to the 2000.00 dollar cap. By the Rule's.

 Jim you know we Love Ya, If they will let me in you are IN or I won't Go

Maybe I should Say I am Sorry But I won't. I also won't Spend 2--3 Grand On a Car that Can Only Be Used ONCE A YEAR. No I Can't Afford That, No My Mind Is Not Wired Like That. No I won't Drive a car With Rubber Chickens Glued to it. From What I have seen There are some creative People with Creative Cars and you I applaud. But driving Junk Way Past It's ability Is Not Smart and the Folks In them May not be either, I'll get the fiero as I commited to it. Guess I will Just Have to Melt it Down,but it's weak link is the tranny, the rest seems pretty good but will be 150 to 200 HP short of a 10 Second run. Might go low 12 though.

chickens glued to cars? that sounds like LeMons.

aside of the "art car" here and there, the challenge isn't about gimmicks.

don't try to go big first time out. you'll stress yourself out. go for the event and the people, and if you bring a car so be it.

i don't need another grand to be fast.

Sure, you built a car for under $2K, but you have a commercial welding rig, a 4-post lift a tubing bender, years of race-car fabrication experience and access to spares that mere mortals can only dream of.

I vote for a hand-tool class. You get $2017, hand tools, duct tape and the floor.

Let me preface this by saying I am in no way a fully schooled encyclopedia of crap can type racing and probably will say something that is obviously wrong to the more knowledgeable. But here's my $.02. The problem with the challenge is its a unique event. KINDA makes the car a one time use then discard. There are ways to work around that but, it can be hard to justify $2K for one event. What I "think" GTXvette is pushing for is a little more rooms in the rules to help with the multi use functions of the car. For example safety items. Running chump or lemons you have to have a cage. Within the challenge rules a cage goes against the budget. You could add the cage later but a cage is something you usually put in while the initial build is underway. Maybe making an allowance for safety items that are required in other E36M3 box car racing could be worked with?

I'm just throwing bologna against the wall and seeing if it sticks. I do think it's worth a look by the community tho.

In reply to appliance_racer:

Aren't LeChump racecars automatically eligible for the challenge? Or was that a thing in the past? I think I remember something like that being in the rules. I'm off to check.

edit, in the 2017 rules:

"Crapcan Clause:

24 Hours of LeMons race cars are automagically legal, provided they meet the spirit and intent of our rules."

In reply to appliance_racer:

There's no reason anyone can't build a car that has other intentions.

While it may be unlikely that it will be a track race car, it would probably be a good drag car or autocrosser, if you build it to a specific set of rules.

And my last build would have made a vintage race car, but that got beat out by a pre-built car.

A Street Prepared, Prepared, or Modified SCCA car would be a fine challenge car.

In reply to appliance_racer:

Surprisingly few of the challenge entries are built solely for the event. Sure, few are daily drivers, although a few were....but most will see frequent use after the challenge as autocross cars. And some were going to be used as track/HPDE cars. One impala ss was driven quite a distance to the event and back as a charity fund raiser. The BMW 2800 entry has a long history as a track/AX/DD and was driven to the event and back home. Quite a few miata based entries were weekend fun cars that I'm sure see a lot of fair weather use. And the Nelson/ozzie steve/patgizz entries get a lot of use 1/4 mile at a time. The $900 c4 we built remains street legal and though not competitive in local AX classes is driven to events to play and the occasional car show/cars and coffee to promote the challenge zaniness and is well received by other car enthusiasts. Especially when I explain the challenge format. A few people even comment on seeing it in GRM article.

So I have to respectfully disagree that most are built for a one time event. Maybe the plywood porsche replica but not much else.

one last thing....there is no need for a "Pro" class. Professional teams do show up and seem to play within the rules to showcase their talent. And that is fine by me. And talented amateurs still deservedly beat them. So there!

I know that a lot of the challenge cars go on to other glory. Do a good number of these cars stay challenge eligible? I always assumed (you know what that does) that those cars that moved on from the challenge were just further built/upgraded for whatever the owner wanted to run in, but were likely no longer challenge (budget) eligible.

That's my thought process that lead me to my "one time use" thinking. I should have said something more like "one time challenge use".

If I'm wrong that would be awesome! wait....what?

I'm honestly and respectfully asking and thinking out loud. This will probably change some of my plans for the better. Absolutely no disrespect or argument intended.

In reply to appliance_racer:

No offense taken. Several challenge cars have made multiple appearances. For example our $900 Corvette competed last year in the under $1,000 class. We're putting a little more money into it this year and going for the big dog trophy. LOL

Ain't going to happwen but we ll have a lot of fun.

Year before last Pat built a low-budget v8-powered 240Z. Using the same car and coming back last year upgraded with money left over from his previous build and did much better by upgrading to an LS1 motor.

Jeremy who did the parking lot build with a Firebird did great. But the motor from that car is going into his S10 truck entry this year. So pieces and parts of the cars also continue on ad nauseam.

Last year was my first year to attend or enter and we had a ball with our mediocre entry. It's worth coming just to spectate and enjoy the event.

My $2015/6 car is still eligible. I found one part to make it better and know what can be removed to fit that part in budget if i feel the need to return(hint: if it goes as fast as i think it will, it's coming back one more time).

This year's build has the goal to be a daily drivable, autocross competent, sub 12 second drag pass, track day monster that would eat up mid ohio or nelson ledges and spit them out, without breaking budget. Next year's car is way less ambitious and just something i really want to do for myself and the community. I do have goals to win this event, but if i chase that every year my hair will go gray really quick.

You guys need to get like a monster press car or a UTCC competitive car out to do a lap to set a time so that people can bench race a bit more.

IE I would lend you the ACR and let it do a quarter mile run and a autocross run and then watch in horror as people with 2K cars eat it alive.

Most of the top finishers have made multiple trips to the Challenge.

The Mumpkin has made it 5 times (in completely different appearance package each time) and I'm considering a 6th.

It is autocrossed regularly, drag raced occasionally, and still driven on the street.

pinchvalve wrote: Sure, you built a car for under $2K, but you have a commercial welding rig, a 4-post lift a tubing bender, years of race-car fabrication experience and access to spares that mere mortals can only dream of. I vote for a hand-tool class. You get $2017, hand tools, duct tape and the floor.

There is, or was, a caveman class.

wearymicrobe wrote: You guys need to get like a monster press car or a world track car challenge racer out to do a lap to set a time so that people can bench race a bit more. IE I would lend you the ACR and let it do a quarter mile run and a autocross run and then watch in horror as people with 2K cars eat it alive.

And i would provide the consolation booze just to see it.

SVreX wrote: Most of the top finishers have made multiple trips to the Challenge. The Mumpkin has made it 5 times (in completely different appearance package each time) and I'm considering a 6th. It is autocrossed regularly, drag raced occasionally, and still driven on the street.

How many times has Andy brought one, or both of the volksrods?

Yea OK,All you Need is Love, but I am 66 I have 0 help And NO one around Here Is Interested, And Have an Overwhelming amount of work to do. It's Ok. Now A quote from Mick Fleetwood,

When I talked to GOD He say's He Understands, Say's Sit by Me "I'll Be your Guidn' Hand" But Don't ask Me what I think Of you, I Might not give the Answer that you want me to. Oh Well.

In reply to GTXVette:

Most of what you are suggesting is already allowed under the current rules. Big wings, twin engines, Amod, Locosts. The only thing I see that might not be are former Sprint cars.

You're just gonna have to build it for a little less money.

I Know I Know, It' could be a little Over the top any way. But you know Less Money = Less Car! so you say a locost is legal, I thought they had to kinda sorta be a factory Frame, I have a frame that was Built IN a Factory, even Has a Production # can't title it because it was Salvage, every thing that hangs off it came from production Cars. "Big wheels Keep on turning, Rollin' Rollin' " or is it "Highway to Hell" Although.... Car A, the Vette,just Stop Fixin' it for the Challenge. Car B Fiero (under a grand). Car C UnderCover. SVreX your answer to this frame Question could be the Answer to My Problems.

I'll just put this here.

I was out thinking myself for years trying to come up with the next challenge bombshell. Once i realized "forget this let's do something easy" the datsun fell into my lap. I was an sbc and tires away from being ready. Once that was in it was a simple matter or moving things around how i wanted them and cleaning stuff up. I could have done engine/tires and called it a day and run it for sub $1000.

Do something simple. Sell some crap, buy a $1500 camaro and throw some tires on it and come play. I spent so much time trying to build the next big thing that by the time I realized it, 10 years of challenge car building netted me zero trips to Florida and a bunch of incomplete ideas and cars sold as projects or scrapped

GTXVette wrote: Yea OK,All you Need is Love, but I am 66 I have 0 help And NO one around Here Is Interested, And Have an Overwhelming amount of work to do. It's Ok. Now A quote from Mick Fleetwood, When I talked to GOD He say's He Understands, Say's Sit by Me "I'll Be your God in Hand" But Don't ask Me what I think Of you, I Might not give the Answer that you want me to. Oh Well.

Now when I talk to God you know he understands

He said stick by me and I'll be your guidin' hand

But don't ask me what I think of you,

I might not give the answer that you want me to

Not to be too much of a jerk, but it sounds like you wanna play in the sandbox and then complain that the sandbox isn't perfect for you. Just show up with or without a car and have a fantastic time!