R63 AMG The Unicorn of my Destruction

This thread has me thinking I need to get a Chrysler Pacifica and put a SRT 6.2 in it for the Redneck American version

I used to log in to GRM to read about cars.

Eventually, I started logging in to see what was going on in the world.

Now I log in to see if Mazduece is making any progress on the AMG.

Just got off the phone with Andrea from Mercedes Corporate. We had a bit of a discussion about what an old car really is and how a head bolt failure at 94k miles on a flagship vehichicle is really unacceptable. She still seems to think cars failing to the point of junk by 100k miles is cool. We'll have to disagree on that one.
Then we got to the point. She said in this call, as she has said before, that if I had a different relationship with MB then they could help me. So what you're saying is, you CAN help, but you don't want to. And you don't understand why that feels like bad customer service?
She also tried to sell me on the idea that the dealer would sell me "discounted" parts. No, he was willing to sell them at MB retail instead of a massively inflated price only because I called them on it. They WANTED to rip me off on the parts cost. Again, that's not exactly a spectacular customer experience.
Unless the things that were recorded trip some magic switch I expect I've heard the last from MB Customer Care.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Those are some beefy brakes, how much does the R weigh?

Somewhere around 5200lbs depending on options. Not a small car.

Woody wrote: I used to log in to GRM to read about cars. Eventually, I started logging in to see what was going on in the world. Now I log in to see if Mazduece is making any progress on the AMG.

...or the Grosh. Don't forget about the Grosh.

golfduke wrote:

Woody wrote: I used to log in to GRM to read about cars. Eventually, I started logging in to see what was going on in the world. Now I log in to see if Mazduece is making any progress on the AMG.

...or the Grosh. Don't forget about the Grosh.

Yeah, I pretty much rely on grm for my news. If it ain't here i don't care. Oh and ferugs now that he's back in play.

Onto more serious things....it's truly a shame MB has taken this path. Seems like a premier label wouldnt do this. Then again, I know a lot of labels like it that don't even want customers. It's that elitism that makes me hate most rich people.

mazdeuce wrote: Just got off the phone with Andrea from Mercedes Corporate. We had a bit of a discussion about what an old car really is and how a head bolt failure at 94k miles on a flagship vehichicle is really unacceptable. She still seems to think cars failing to the point of junk by 100k miles is cool. We'll have to disagree on that one. Then we got to the point. She said in this call, as she has said before, that if I had a different relationship with MB then they could help me. So what you're saying is, you CAN help, but you don't want to. And you don't understand why that feels like bad customer service? She also tried to sell me on the idea that the dealer would sell me "discounted" parts. No, he was willing to sell them at MB retail instead of a massively inflated price only because I called them on it. They WANTED to rip me off on the parts cost. Again, that's not exactly a spectacular customer experience. Unless the things that were recorded trip some magic switch I expect I've heard the last from MB Customer Care.

I know that I've been playing both sides of this argument, but do you recognize that fact that, at least to my knowledge, you have never been one of their customers?

Woody wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: Just got off the phone with Andrea from Mercedes Corporate. We had a bit of a discussion about what an old car really is and how a head bolt failure at 94k miles on a flagship vehichicle is really unacceptable. She still seems to think cars failing to the point of junk by 100k miles is cool. We'll have to disagree on that one. Then we got to the point. She said in this call, as she has said before, that if I had a different relationship with MB then they could help me. So what you're saying is, you CAN help, but you don't want to. And you don't understand why that feels like bad customer service? She also tried to sell me on the idea that the dealer would sell me "discounted" parts. No, he was willing to sell them at MB retail instead of a massively inflated price only because I called them on it. They WANTED to rip me off on the parts cost. Again, that's not exactly a spectacular customer experience. Unless the things that were recorded trip some magic switch I expect I've heard the last from MB Customer Care.

I know that I've been playing both sides of this argument, but do you recognize that fact that, at least to my knowledge, you have never been one of their customers?

As much as I love all threads Mazdeuce and think highly of you, I have to agree with Woody.

Not even the brake pads.

Just a note. If you become a member of the MB owners club, you will get some good discounts at the dealer. I bought a few parts from MB Classic center in california and thought the prices were extremely fair.

Even not buying any cars from them but showing that you like doing your own work but buy their parts, it probably helps.

In reply to Woody:

Absolutely. And I've said to everyone at every level that I understand that they don't owe me anything, but I would love it if they stood behind their product and engineering. This actually resulted in some confusion as they thought I was seeking warranty. Nope, just exceptional service from a company is sometimes known for exceptional service.
You pay more for a MB. The cars are nice, but part of what you pay for is the experience. It's like paying for a suite that comes with a butler. Except I just found out that sometimes the butler says no, which is unexpected.
Not a perfect metaphor, but that's the best I can come up with.
The R63 is still phenomonal, and I'm going to fix it, I'm just not sure that I want to buy a new MB.

This is what I am reading:

"I bought this ridiculously expensive and highly depreciated bonkers car fully expecting it to break. Once it broke, I found out that MB spoils some special customers based on their purchase history. Now I am upset that I can't be special too."

I don't mean to be egregious here, I really don't, and I'm interested to see you tear this thing down just like watching the Lambo get torn down in the other thread. I just don't get why you're hung up on not being special. In zero other situations would calling the OEM of a secondhand out-of-warranty product yield anything different. It would be analogous to Lambo giving corsepervita all of the parts for his Jalpa.

mazdeuce wrote: In reply to Woody: Absolutely. And I've said to everyone at every level that I understand that they don't owe me anything, but I would love it if they stood behind their product and engineering. This actually resulted in some confusion as they thought I was seeking warranty. Nope, just exceptional service from a company is sometimes known for exceptional service. You pay more for a MB. The cars are nice, but part of what you pay for is the experience. It's like paying for a suite that comes with a butler. Except I just found out that sometimes the butler says no, which is unexpected. Not a perfect metaphor, but that's the best I can come up with. The R63 is still phenomonal, and I'm going to fix it, I'm just not sure that I want to buy a new MB.

Man, I just think you're expecting too much. It would be like me going to Ferrari on my 23k mile always garaged and serviced Modena and saying here is the list of stuff you need to fix that shouldn't have failed. They would just cuss me out in Italian because they wouldn't even be bothered to speak English. If every high end car company treated every one special, and disregarded the actual warranty period, they would be broke.

Now that won't keep me from buying a new Ferrari, if I'm ever in that position, but I'll get the extended warranty. Which brings me to another point....and I think it's a very important one, you were offered an extended warranty and passed on it, so now Mercedes should bail you out?

And now we have people in the thread saying "It's that elitism that makes me hate most rich people." lol wtf? Mercedes won't provide an engine out of warranty, so now we get those kinds of comments? crazy.

tuna55 wrote: This is what I am reading: "I bought this ridiculously expensive and highly depreciated bonkers car fully expecting it to break. Once it broke, I found out that MB spoils some special customers based on their purchase history. Now I am upset that I can't be special too." I don't mean to be egregious here, I really don't, and I'm interested to see you tear this thing down just like watching the Lambo get torn down in the other thread. I just don't get why you're hung up on not being special. In zero other situations would calling the OEM of a secondhand out-of-warranty product yield anything different. It would be analogous to Lambo giving corsepervita all of the parts for his Jalpa.

I kind of agree with his hangup on the special part. My wife had a jeep liberty. The window is held up by a poorly designed piece of plastic, that tends to break. The manufacturer solution was not to issue a recall, or help anyone with their poorly designed part, it was to charge 400 bucks for a whole new regulator. Making money off of poor design did not sit well with me. I see similarities in his MB. I'm still pissed at Jeep for the crap way they handled that, and mine is literally 1/100 of the scale of his.

While I think that this particular ship may have lofted its sails, let's take a look at a completely hypothetical story about a fictional character.

Let's say that there was this guy... Sometimes he comes across as sort of a know it all, douchebaggity a-hole, but he has made a few choices in his life that have worked out in his favor. Also, he may or may not have had some success at taking things that were once on fire and making sure that they are no longer on fire.

Anyway, this guy has been driving around in a high end German sports car. He didn't buy it new, but he has had it kind of a long time. He has done a significant portion of the admittedly minimal maintenance on it himself, but he has also visited the dealer a time or two for things that were beyond his ability. His car doesn't have a ton of miles on it, but he's sensing a vibe that he's not in love with. He gives the dealer a shot at diagnosing the issue, but they say that there is no issue. He understands certain aspects (both real and generally perceived) about the market for these cars and, realizing that if things get all pretzel shaped, he is on his own. He decides to bail on this particular vehicle.

In his search for a suitable replacement, he seeks out a vehicle (nationwide) among the certified pre-owned offerings of the original manufacturer's dealer network through a service on that manufacturer's very own website. He understands that he will possibly pay more, but with that comes some sense of security. Unfortunately, no suitable replacement is found through that route.

He does, however, find a vehicle that meets his preferred parameters elsewhere. It is less than two years old, has been traded in on another high end German car and is offered at a fair price.

To keep the reader interested, we will say that this fictitious character sought the assistance of another forum member, who generously offered to lay eyes upon the vehicle so that our protagonist didn't have to make more than one trip to the middle of Pennsylvania.

So now our jerkface a-hole friend has another great car. It's less than two years old and only has about ten thousand miles on it. He didn't buy it as a CPO car, but it still has two years and forty thousand miles remaining on the factory warranty. According to the factory maintenance schedule, it's not due for an oil change for another 5,000 miles, although, due to time in service, the message on the dash suggests that it should have something called an Intermediate Service, which is essentially an oil change and new air filters. Even though he knows that he can do it cheaper (and enjoy himself in the process), you can bet your ass that he schedules an appointment at a Genuine dealership and drinks free coffee while they take entirely too long to preform a few simple tasks.

The service doesn't go as smoothly as it should have, and when presented with the tab, it is about twice the advertised price, which, oddly enough, the service department is unaware of. After some polite negotiation, which includes emailing the dealership a link to their own damn webpage, the fee is adjusted and the customer moves on, once they went back and reset his service light like they were supposed to. He paid a lot for his free coffee, but recognized that he would before he walked in. Even though it was kind of a bumpy morning, he likes the people there as they have treated him well in the past, and doesn't go out of his way to complain. He goes home and puts his receipt in the file under "P", explains to a few people why he missed lunch and didn't get a bunch of stuff done that afternoon and tries to forget about it.

He has established a relationship with the dealership.

A few weeks later, he gets a hypothetical email from the manufacturer. It includes something called a Customer Satisfaction Survey and they ask that he take a few minutes to complete it. It asks some very specific questions that, when answered fairly but truthfully, paint a less than satisfactory picture of the customer experience. He gets replies from both the manufacturer and the dealership's service manager in less than six hours. On the weekend, after dark. They were not form letters.

He has established a relationship with the manufacturer, indicating both his willingness to visit the dealership for service, as well and demonstrating his understanding of the manufacturer's suggested service requirements which, in this case (sparing you the details) was better than the service advisor's.

His plan is to return, either to this dealership or perhaps another, for a few future service procedures that he could probably handle on his own (and for less money), given the fact that he has a few skills, an internet and a MaxJax.

However, should this car cough up its engine once it's out of warranty, (even though it has no intermediate shaft), he suspects that he will be in a better position to negotiate the terms of its resurrection. He may be out a few hundred dollars in the mean time, but in the long run, he suspects that he will come out ahead, given the manufacturer's history and track record on such matters.

Nonetheless, he remains an a-hole.

And that, my friends, is the story of how you do high end German cars.

Mitsubishi, Mercedes, McLaren, it doesn't matter. Once it's out of warranty, it's not the company's problem. Sorry.

In reply to Cotton:

That was me. Let me clarify. It's the sort of snobbery that I got out her statement that I've seen so frequently amongst the well heeled. I've spent most of my life in the service industry in one fashion or another. When she said "if he had a different relationship with mb". See to me, that's just bullE36 M3. Treat anyone and everyone as an equal. Correct me if I'm wrong (I am not defending either side, the cards have fallen.) But thst read to me as "if you had bought more mercedeses, we would hook you up. But since you only have this one merc, and you only midnight buy a new one, no" that's like telling me I can't buy a Bentley because I don't look like I'm rich. To be fair I can't...I'm broke as berkeley. That's what I've got, and that's the attitudes I don't like. I've met plenty of cool loaded folks, and more who aren't. It just frustrates me when people act like they're better than someone.

In reply to tuna55: Because I view this as an engineering failure. And a known issue. A head bolt is not a wear item. That's it.
The 'special' part is because MB went out of their way to let me know I wasn't special. It's not that they don't help people, they just won't help me.
To go full dad on the subject, I'm not mad at Mercedes, I'm just disappointed in their decision.

No matter, that's done now. Time to tear into the car and see what we find. Should be fun.

In reply to Woody:

And we're 3400 miles from me being that guy. It's due for service C which includes a transmission flush. It's a bit far out to schedule said service, so I hadn't. Sometimes you get a carton of eggs home and one's cracked.

Edit: and an hour of my day was spent stopping by the dealer to talk to the salesman and take my name off the GLA45 but to call me when it comes it. Chat with the original service advisor and say thanks, and talk to the head of service and let him know what I was doing and thanks for helping. We smiled and shook hands and they know they'll see me for that transmission service when it's due. I'm not retarded about these things, they just didn't happen in a great order this time.

In reply to mazdeuce:

That's what I got out of it too. You aint fancy enough to be helped.

I think this picture gives a pretty good look at why the motor needs to come out the bottom. My tape measure says a MaxJax will be perfect for this task. As soon as I firm up a loading dock through a friend the order will be placed and I'll be moving.

In 2000 I bought a used Dodge Dakota from a large(chain) independent used-car lot. The transmission went out about 1200-miles after the warranty expired(and in hindsight I wondered if I screwed up something doing the fluid/filter change to cause it). I ended up taking to a local Dodge dealer, who I had no prior experience with(nor have I ever bought a new Mopar), and the dealer replaced the trans under warranty for free.

Sure, the $$ are way less than what mazdeuce is dealing with, but that transmission(to my knowledge) didn't have any TSBs warning of impending doom or documenting known engineering/manufacturing flaws. Yet it still was replaced for free.

How many cars would MB need to sell Mrs. Deuce to make up the ~$3k(?) difference in parts prices? I'm guessing the first one, particularly an AMG, would put them squarely in the black.

petegossett wrote: In 2000 I bought a used Dodge Dakota from a large(chain) independent used-car lot. The transmission went out about 1200-miles after the warranty expired(and in hindsight I wondered if I screwed up something doing the fluid/filter change to cause it). I ended up taking to a local Dodge dealer, who I had no prior experience with(nor have I ever bought a new Mopar), and the dealer replaced the trans under warranty for free. Sure, the $$ are way less than what mazdeuce is dealing with, but that transmission(to my knowledge) didn't have any TSBs warning of impending doom or documenting known engineering/manufacturing flaws. *Yet it still was replaced for free*. How many cars would MB need to sell Mrs. Deuce to make up the ~$3k(?) difference in parts prices? I'm guessing the first one, particularly an AMG, would put them squarely in the black.

1200 miles vs 40k miles out of warranty.

In reply to mazdeuce:

You've got the mails.

In reply to Woody:

Huge thanks.

In regards to the math, (and I'm really about done with this, time to move on) I now know wholesale on the parts can't be more than about $3k. MB managed to find $3500 in money off a new AMG by combining conquest money (since I have a Cadillac) with some other discretionary money. If they had eaten the $3k in parts and given me the last $1700 in labor off the GLA45 sticker Mrs. Deuce was all ready to let me push the order button. So they lost a $60k sale and a lifetime of thanks over $4700. I'm a little surprised that noone on their end did that math.

I assume it was your disposable flush-out oil but I am still amused at the photo transposing the $50,000 engine against walmart's cheapest 10w-40.